My Rant on Clinton

[Andy L]

I dont do this very often, but Ive had about all I can take. How in the hell does anyone support the Clintons? What did they do that was so great? I always did think he was a dud in office and it was all smoke and mirrors. Now its crystal clear I was right, but alot of sheeple still think of him as a hero. And whats even scarier than that, there is a very good chance his wife my be our next president.

Clinton had a great economy. But it was a propped up economy. The DOW hit all time highs, but it was on the strength of blue sky stocks, for the most part, such as .com stocks. They couldnt/wouldnt stand the test of time. I know many folks that made alot of money on that run. Alot of those people made the money on paper, elevated their standard of living, lost it all plus some and are in trouble now. Scraping hard to get by. But its all Bushs fault according to them. What? The DOW is now at even higher levels, having whethered the 9/11 thing, and is on a good foundation this time. But Bush gets no credit. All other indicators have weathered the fall after the false Clinton economy and are strong again on good foundations, but Bush gets no credit. I dont understand it.

Clinton is credited with a peaceful, no wars, administration. Yet he had all the intel anyone would need to know that bin Laden was a serious threat and let him go at least three times. Had he taken him out then, cutting off the money and training of the terrorists were fighting now, theres no doubt things would have been different.

He paid off that sawed off N Korean to not make nukes, instead of dealing with him. He used the money to make nukes, now Bush has to clean up that mess.

I could go on and on, and I know Im preaching to the choir to alot of you but Im frustrated as hell right now.

Since when does a person in the USA move to a state part time and immediately become elected to the US Senate? Thats some BS that would happen in a third world country like Iran or Mexico. Just unreal. That woman is evil. Totally evil. She has an agenda that is going to haunt all of us that enjoy our freedom, including the second ammendment, for the rest of our lives and our kids lives. And no matter what anyone says, unless something drastic happens soon, shes gonna be our next leader. And have a democratic house to work with.

Folks, were in a sad state of affairs right now. With Hillary at the healm, Bill whispering in her ear, Feinstein, Boxer, Pelosi, Kerry, Gore, Kennedy and a host of others backing her every move and bringing up more ideas and the numbers to back their every move, were in big trouble.

Sad thing is, I dont know what to do about it.

Ill quit. Im sure you all already knew all this.

Andy

[Andy L]

One more thing. This whole Foley thing. How the hell did a queer get elected into the house as a republican? It goes against one of the main platforms of the GOP. I dont understand. Is he a plant? A mole?

How conveient was that whole thing. Dont get me wrong, gays turn my stomach. Gays that prey on juveniles make me think they should face the death penalty. This Foley dude is way out of bounds and a sick puppy. But how convenient was it for this thing, that has been going on for a long time, came to the surface a month before an election that can decide the rest of everyone that is reading this lives? A time when it was pretty much a dead heat between the critical races and now tilted heavily toward the radical left. The guy is sickening and should be removed from office (and the human race) but the entire GOP should not be punished for it. It has nothing to do with the GOPs abilities to handle world or economic situations.

This is all a sick joke to some. Its just partisan politics. The problem I have and why Im so upset is like I have said over and over, this election and the one in two years are so critical, such big turning points and defining moments to the rest of mine and the everyone reading this lives. Probably the most defining moment in the history of the US, with everything going on right now.

I pray everyone wakes up.

[Tall Shadow]

Andy, I understand just what you mean....and I agree with you about the whole Clinton(s) "thing". The amount of BS that guy got away with, and still does, boggles the mind sometimes.


As for the Foley incident, yes he should be gone....and he is....There is something you wouldn't see a liberal do....resign!

But the Libs & their good buddies in the mainstream "Drive-by" media sat on the information about what Foley had done for over 11 MONTHS! Don't even start to buy into the idea that this is "New" news to any of them....It was planed for a week or two Before the November elections...But had to be brought out due to the Dems doing so poorly in the polls (Or should I say, America doing so well)....Many of them have said as much in the last few days. It was a political stunt, Pure and simple.

It's important to remember just how desperate these people are to regain power in the US....They will stop at nothing, stoop however low they must to do so.
WE MUST NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!

All of our futures..Literally..depend on it.

Tall Shadow

[jon lynn]

I am not loyal to any party, I think our problem as a country is that we only have two real political groups to choose from, A or B, and if neither is up to snuff we are hurting, like now.

I liked Bill, but hate the don't ask don't tell BS, but hate Hillary and become physically ill over the thought she may actually pull the right strings and get in to the Oval Office. She and Monica couldn't both fit under the desk.

I think Bush is a lousy president too. I am sure Wild Bill used smoke and mirrors for the economy, but don't even try to say GW didn't do the same for the Iraq cause.

I voted for Ronald Regan, although I was at the time a registered Democrat. Having said that, and I ain't going to get in to a wizzin' contest, my opinion is as valad as the rest.

We "ALL" (yeah me too) listen to what we want to hear. If you like GW just stay on Fox News, if you don't just go to CBS. Reporters choose sides now, it has nothing to do with actual news reporting.

We need a new and true third party, and not the no-nuke, tree hugging joke Green Peace types. We need a reincarnation of the Bull Moose Party, because Teddy didn't take no gruff, and still delivered a speech after being shot!


But I say this (well write) with a true and sincere heart: NOT ONE DAMNED POLITITIAN CARES ONE BIT FOR THE AMERICAN VOTER ANY MORE; JUST THE AMERICAN VOTE; SO THEY CAN LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH AMERICAN MONEY; REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

Politics is money for them, a rich career. With minimal work for a few years, they get a pension for life. Yep four years work and an income for life. I was in the Army for 10 years, and don't get squat, you that stayed 20, don't get much. But the former elected get it for life.

Remember the 'HUNT CHAT PARTY' would do Wonders for America! I am sure we would do things right, and do what is best for our America.

[Andy L]

Third party would be good. But this is the real world. Not a fantasy. Gotta choose. Hillary? Or anybody else?
:rolleyes:

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by Andy L
Third party would be good. But this is the real world. Not a fantasy. Gotta choose. Hillary? Or anybody else?
:rolleyes:

I agree.

Yes, it would be a wonderful thing to find a third party that was the best of what made/makes this the greatest country in the world.....But, alas.....This (as I tell My kids) isn't a Disney movie, and everything doesn't always work out after 1 1/2 hours have gone by.

We have, what we have.
We should always be working toward a better system, but You and I have to live in Today.

On the one hand, you have Hitlery, Diane Fineswine, Chucky Shumer, and the countless other liberals (Democrats/Socialists) who...and PLEASE! Make no mistake about this! want to take away everyones guns.... not just Handguns, Not just Military styled guns, not just the .50's....
ALL OF THEM, YOUR'S, MINE.....ALL OF THEM!

Your scoped deer gun will/has become "A Sniper Rifle"
Your Shotgun "Can spray death from the hip indiscriminately killing people!"
Your muzzle loader "Is an unregulated, untraceable killing machine!"

On the other, we have a party that, while not living up to it's potential, has historically upheld Our rights.


What's that you say? You can't vote only on one issue?

I'm not.

I list those things that matter the most to me, and those I love.

Take said list and compare it to the core beliefs of the two sides.

Pick the one that my list most agrees with.

Vote.

Get involved, Question your beliefs, tell the side you pick what you like, and what you don't about what they stand for...and where they are going. Make a difference.


You and I, and all of us have to work with what we have at hand.

It's not a perfect system...Non are. Work with what you have...untill you can change it for the better.

We all win that way.

Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

You hit it on the head TS.

I would vote for and be a part of a third party, such as Libratarian, Bull Moose, ect... if they had a prayer. The reality is the democraps would love it and clean house. There are X number of votes available. To have a third party, those votes have to come from somewhere. Where do you think they will come from? It sure wont be the democrat base. They dont want change. A third party would surely be for second ammendment rights, lower social programs, more self accountability and smaller government. All of which Joe Blow trailer park, drawing a government check so he dont have to work is definitely not going for that. That would mean he would have to go to work. Thats not the entire dem base, but a huge part of it.

The votes will be taken from the GOP. Basically, a perfect third party would be a refined, cleaned up version of the conservative philosphy anyway. No deadbeat, minority, illegal immigrant or any financially motivated bleeding heart that soaks the government to make money while trying to look like they are helping the downtrodden (read deadbeats) would want to vote for a platform like that.

I have looked at several groups over the years that sound good on the surface. They every one claim to go back to the basics of the constitution and get America back on track, until you dig in. Each has their own radical hidden agenda, after they think they have your support.

The latest one I looked at, even joined for one year so I could get their inside info to make an informed decision was the John Birch Society. On the surface, they are great. They have great ideas about the Constitution being the supreme, and basically only, law of the land. Getting back to the gold standard, dealing with the Mexicans, ect.... But when you get their monthly stuff, they are just another over the top radical group with an agenda and will go nowhere, thank God.

Unfortunately, until something better does show up. And it wont, not in our lifetime, the GOP is the closest thing to standing for whats right. Including in a big way our second ammendment rights. They are not in any way perfect. They have many demons. But not as many as the only viable alternative.

Its a sad situation. But in reality, its all we got. The lesser of two evils. IMO, not a humble one either, Ill take the GOP everytime over the likes of Kerry, Gore, Clintons, Kennedys, Rockerfellers, Boxer, Feinstein, the list is long. The left wing scares me to death.

And folks, Ill say it again. This election and the one in two years are going to have a dramatic impact on the rest of our lives and our kids lives. More than any election in history. Theres too much on the table right now that could go either way to change horses. Please drop all the division in our own ranks. This isnt the time. We cannont afford to give the lefties a blank check. If the GOP cant control the house, senate and president, then we must have gridlock. That would at least buy us time to figure another strategy.

Thanks for listening.

Andy

[Andy L]

One more thing, Jon, I like the idea of a Huntchat Party in power. But look at it closely. What do you think it would be? It would be exactly what I posted above. A cleaned up version of the GOP. I will bet good money that if you polled this group, your not going to get many votes with a liberal base.

[jon lynn]

I think the Disney-Fantasy terms are a bit harsh, because that is what I think the problem is, the two party only system is installed in our heads. we need a 3rd party. Not the next election, but build, and get a reputation over the next fifteen to twenty years.

But if I were choosing my FANTASY candidate he would stand for:

1. English is the only language offically, and other languages will be taught in school for foregin travels, but not to make it where gennerations can live here and not bother to learn the language of the land. Atleast enough spoken English to get your point across.

2. A wall would indeed be built between the US and Mexico. A real honest wall, not some minor tortillia curtian.

3. Illegal aliens would be really ILLEGAL. If caught crossing a second time, it means hard time in prison. An all English speaking prison that is.

4. Actors and other rich and famous types, will go to real prison for crime, and not check in to Betty Ford for two weeks and be forgiven, over and over and over.

5. American industry would not be out sourced to India, China and other places, where labor is 16 cents an hour, so when you call AOL for help, Apu from the Simpsone won't struggel with the superb Oklahoma accent he can't seem to understand.

6. No buisness, ie insurance companys, can have automated answering. The stupid "Please repeat, did you say........?" Or press 8 if you want to come shoot our manager.

7. Like in Australlia, if your religous beliefs do not allow you to obey the laws of the land, get the hell out.

8. News reporting will put the facts back in reporting, and not what they think the news is.

9. CNN International will cover US sports for 55 minutes of the sports news hour, and not European soccer, leaving a full 30 seconds for US sports as you get now....................stupid Ted Turner.........

10. American brewerys will stop cheapening beer contents. Beer is NOT made from rice! And what about the pasturization stuff?:rolleyes:

Now THIS, is better than a Disney Fantasy :D :D

P.S. NCAA players would have to stay in school, until they got a REAL diploma.

[fabsroman]

Jon, pretty good post, but that is just a beginning. You started on a lot of your pet peeves, but they do not even address a handful of the country's problems.

By the way, your request about CNN International playing 55 minutes of US sports news during the sports hour is ludicrous. It is called CNN INTERNATIONAL, get the INTERNATIONAL, for a reason. If you want US sports, turn to ESPN or ESPN2.

Okay, some of the things you missed.

Alterantive means of fuel shall be made mandatory. Seems as though that debate has decreased significantly because gas prices are not as high as they used to be. Don't let this little lull in the price of gas fool you. The supply is running out and the environment is getting destroyed.

Okay, that is a good seguay into the environment issue. How about ensuring that big business does not pollute, and that consumers reduce their pollution as much as possible. How about making recycling mandatory thoughout the US.

Oh yeah, then we have something called the budget. How about balancing the budget and trying to get rid of the huge debt that the US currently has. I don't care how we get rid of the debt, but one of the places to start is foreign aid.

How about the poor in the US? What programs do we put in place to get them out of poverty? Me, I am all for work programs in lieu of free handouts. Even if they have to produce bolts, nails, etc. (i.e., menial tasks). There doing something for their money will be positive for the nation.

What about crime? How do we decrease crime in the US?

Okay, I think I am done for right now because I have to hit the road on the bike, but I'll try to think of some other important issues that need to be addressed in the US.

Oh yeah, what about public land for hunting. That has got to be the most important one. LOL

[Andy L]

Alot of our energy problems could be solved just doing away with special interests. Were not close to running out of oil. Thats just false. Were close to running out of oil that we can get without a fight.

I understand there is a huge oil field just tapped in the Gulf that they arent sure exactly how big it is yet, but its huge. Theres a huge oil field in Alaska that needs tapped. Its not going to hurt a damned thing and from pics I have seen, the caribou they are so worried about like to stand under the pipes to keep warm. Good for all. I saw a report of the largest, or at least one of the largest, oilfields in the world right off our coast in New England. It needs tapped. We got oil, just need to get it. If we tapped those sources, it wont take long for CHEAP foreign oil to start pouring in. They got more than we know, Im sure.

As for alternative fuel, its gonna be a long time before thats viable. Right now its not going to work. Corn takes more to produce and takes more to equal gas, that makes it impossible to be a viable alternative. Same with everything else at the moment. They are working on it though....

For home power, wind is a good one. But you got situations like the Kennedys not wanting windmills off shore that could save a bundle because they like to go boating there and it would ruin the view. Theres lots of things like that going on. Mostly by hypocirtical demorats. (sic)

I like the idea of work programs instead of handouts. Everyone, practically, can do something if its licking stamps for the government for their food stamps.

Illegal aliens should mean you spend time on a prison chain gang before being shipped back to where you came from. Work a while for nothing making our roads better and country prettier before deportation. Maybe think twice before making the swim next time....

Ill be back too. Lots of ideas. One of us needs to run for president.... LOL

[fabsroman]

Okay, so we have the cheap energy problem fixed, but how about the clean energy problem? If the entire world has smog like LA in the next century, it isn't going to be too good for our grandchildren. Tapping oil wells and burning billions of gallons of it every year is not the answer to a cleaner environment.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Okay, so we have the cheap energy problem fixed, but how about the clean energy problem? If the entire world has smog like LA in the next century, it isn't going to be too good for our grandchildren. Tapping oil wells and burning billions of gallons of it every year is not the answer to a cleaner environment.

Actually what he had said, was that we are Nowhere near being out of crude oil in the future. Peak Oil! was/is a fallacy, born to those who don't grasp the size and scope of this planet...Or that do not wish to.

(Point to ponder)
If we hold present theories to be true, Our current oil (Crude) was made when plant/animal life from millions of years ago, underwent cooking/pressure for millions of years. What no one seams to be able to answer is : why have we never found a "Batch" that isn't done yet? or that is in the process of becoming crude oil?
I mean, the plant/animals didn't cease to exist millions of years ago...there has been a steady (fairly) stream of dieing things through out the history of earth.. along with geological/weather forces being fairly constent.....why would the possess not have "Batches" that are just starting, part way done, and then fully done?

Or is our precious "Theory" just wrong to begin with?

Maybe it is a continual process?



On the other hand, However, anything that would be stated to replace our dependence on oil, must truly Replace it.

Would any of the "Sheep" be willing to give-up their material thing that they "Need" on a daily basis?

Would any of us give-up everything that plastics have done for us?

Would you be willing to "Give-up" the medicine that keeps your loved one alive?

None of the alternatives do. Plain and simple.

Oil is going to be here for quite some time. We have found it just too useful to abandon just yet.

Tall Shadow

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Okay, so we have the cheap energy problem fixed, but how about the clean energy problem? If the entire world has smog like LA in the next century, it isn't going to be too good for our grandchildren. Tapping oil wells and burning billions of gallons of it every year is not the answer to a cleaner environment.

Forgot one big one about your post......:p

LA is in a basin, winds don't "Clear" the smog away very well in a basin.....
+ California has the strictest standards in the US for pollution.

And are also one of/if not the/ largest users of electricity in the country. (Hint...that power comes from somewhere!)

And meanwhile the state is suffering from an inadequate power supply system (Due to the refusal of residents to allow power stations to be built), yet demanding & buying the things that use more and more power.....the demand just goes up, and up!, and up!.....

Just think how bad it will be in the next few years...what with all of the "Undocumented Residents" adding to the load! ;) :D

Conservation only can go so far.....One still expends energy doing any activity....as such, One needs a source for this energy.....Ours, like it or not, right now(and for the foreseeable future)...Is oil.


Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

This is a good discussion, but one quick look back at the main topic. I hope the public wakes up before its too late. The reality is there is no viable third party at the moment. And if something dont change real quick, the demorats are going to have control.

God help us all.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by Andy L
This is a good discussion, but one quick look back at the main topic. I hope the public wakes up before its too late. The reality is there is no viable third party at the moment. And if something dont change real quick, the demorats are going to have control.

God help us all.

:D We have been wandering a little, haven't we?!? :D

Like Andy L has said, there simply isn't a viable 3rd party right now. Any talk of "Non of the above!" or "Let's show them we mean business!", is nothing but a sure win for the liberals.

I really don't believe that the >majority< of Americans will elect the Democrats back into power....I truly think that it's all "Smoke & Mirrors" in the media. The races for the House & Senate just are not as close as the media has been making them out to be.

In the last elections (Come-on! it hasn't been that long!) EVERYONE in the media had been so "Sure" that Kerry & Edwards were going to take the white House with a huge lead.....Well..We all know how that turned out! The largest voter turnout EVER! and a H-U-G-E majority of them voted for Bush & the Conservatives.

Now, we are hearing the same old "Song and Dance" (Love that song!) from all of the usual suspects & their friends in the media....."The Democrats are going to be back in Power!"..."The Republicans are done!" ...... Blah!, Blah!, Blah! :p

The Dems have been whining since, what?...1992?
The Media have been >Loudly!< joining the shouting match!

And yet, the liberals have been loosing, and loosing ground the whole time.......The "People" aren't buying what they are saying....and instead of looking at themselves for the trouble in their message(s), they just keep saying the same old drivil...they Just say it LOUDER!

Tall Shadow

[jl1966]

I am caught in the same dillema as always. I don't like a lot of the Democratic party stands for, however they will look out for the working man, which would be me. The Republican party looks out for their friends in big business, the people that back them. Bush has been ten times worse than Clinton ever was, I would vote for Bill again tomorrow. The republicans are supposed to be the "morality" party, well morals are about more than sex scandals. Morals mean dealing fair, not taking kickbacks and dealing under the table, then when you get caught saying you didn't know about it, or thought it was alright. The thing with Foley has nothing to do with when the Democrats knew about it, it is about when the Republicans knew about it, and why did they not do something, again, "well we didn't know". I dont know who I will vote for yet. Here in Va. we are electing a senator this year, George Allen or Jim Webb, dont know which I will vote for, a clone of Bush or a Democrat that may fall in with the gun ban groups. I have noticed that nobody is talking about crime and gun violence this time around. The Democrats know that is a loser for them. Even with me.

[fabsroman]

The race in Virginia for that Senate seat is horrible. Just the ads are horrible. The issues that they raise in their advertising have almost nothing to do with their stance on the issues. It makes me sick to know that they think the citizens of Virginia are that shallow/stupid.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by jl1966
I am caught in the same dillema as always. I don't like a lot of the Democratic party stands for, however they will look out for the working man, which would be me. The Republican party looks out for their friends in big business, the people that back them. Bush has been ten times worse than Clinton ever was, I would vote for Bill again tomorrow.


Wow!, just Wow!

I still find it hard to believe that my fellow hunters, shooters, and/or any sane person would even say that.

What exactly are you missing that Clinton Did do?
He wasn't responsible for the economy during his time (Reagan was). His administration is why we have the little North Korea problem. His down right treasonous actions are why China was able to leap-frog 50+ years of nuclear technology basically overnight. And, when, my good friend, has growing government, taxing you more, and government intruding into you life at every step been a "good thing"?


Originally posted by jl1966
The republicans are supposed to be the "morality" party, well morals are about more than sex scandals. Morals mean dealing fair, not taking kickbacks and dealing under the table, then when you get caught saying you didn't know about it, or thought it was alright. The thing with Foley has nothing to do with when the Democrats knew about it, it is about when the Republicans knew about it, and why did they not do something, again, "well we didn't know".

Funny, when democrats actually have sexual relations with underlings, both male and female, it's diversity.

When a sicko, who happens to be a RINO (Republican In Name Only), only talks about sex with underlings, it's the worst crime in the world?!?


Originally posted by jl1966
I dont know who I will vote for yet. Here in Va. we are electing a senator this year, George Allen or Jim Webb, dont know which I will vote for, a clone of Bush or a Democrat that may fall in with the gun ban groups. I have noticed that nobody is talking about crime and gun violence this time around. The Democrats know that is a loser for them. Even with me.

Humm? Should I vote for the guys who are >Already< saying how they are going to go after "Guns", "Hunting", Pull Out of Iraq, and make appointments to the supreme court (that will effect all of us for DECADES!...when they are back in power after november????.....

Or should I vote for those guys who aren't Conservative enough for me.......but are the only ones who are heading in that direction?

Yep, that's a tough choice.....:rolleyes:

Get off your high horse, there is only one choice....seriously!

Tall Shadow

[jl1966]

Clinton had adulterous sex with a consenting adult underling. Foley was dealing with children, that is a big difference. I am not going to get into an argument here, no opinions will be changed on either side, I have learned that in the past. Everyone should make their own decisions. That is what makes this a great country. :D

[fabsroman]

Yes, Clinton and Foley are not comparable as far as the sex stuff goes. What I find a little tough to swallow, no pun intended, is that the entire Republican party is being implicated with Foley's issue, but the whole Democratic party wasn't implicated with Clinton's matter.

What bugs me about Clinton is that he lied under oath and then went on TV and lied to the entire American public. Does he really think we are complete morons? Granted, Bush might or might not have lied to the public, because lying takes actual knowledge that what you are saying is false. Clinton knew what he did with Monica because he was actually there.

Yeah, Clinton was for the "working man", but what exactly did he do for the working man? Bush has given more tax cuts to the working man than anybody I know of in recent history, with maybe the exception of Reagan. Also, Bush made it so the "working man" could start his own business with the tax cuts that he gave them. I know because I have a bunch of clients that took advantage of those tax cuts to start their own business, me included.

It is really easy to say that Democrats are for the "working man" and/or the poor, and that Republicans are for big business. It is also too easy to say that Democrats are against the Second Amendment and Republicans are for the Second Amendment. Too easy to say Democrats are pro choice and Republicans are pro life.

Let's work on electing honorable, knowledgeable, and common sense people to office. People that will pass common sense laws like English being the primary language in the US. Just finished downloading a Form W-9 from the IRS website for a client of mine and noticed that it is offered in Spanish. The entire reason I need the form is because 11 1099's for subcontractors that my client uses were not able to be matched up to SSA records for the social security/tax ID number. Guess what, all the names are Spanish/Hispanic. How about electing some officials that take a common sense approach on immigration. We don't need people that are completely for or against anything, because then nothing gets done.

Why is it so hard to elect decent politicians? We should change the Constitution to add a clause wherein people running for office have to go through a lie detector regarding specific questions of moral turpitude.

If politics didn't disgust me and I actually thought I could make a difference, I would run for office. Don't see that ever happening though.

[Tall Shadow]

I can agree with most of that fabsroman, The democrats had 50+years in power to "Fix" the "Ills" of the country, All that has happened is the decline of Our once great socially, Record Taxes, Failing Schools, Record Illiteritcy, Hugely overgrown goverment, And the disullision of the American Family.

Yes!, More!, Please!



A small side note is that acording to the "Page" in question himself (Watched him on TV interview myself), he was 18 at the time of the "insident"..and no longer a "Page" at the time... I'd say the whole "Child Abuse" thing is a moot point. Not that that will stop the "News Reporters" wailing about it.


Tall Shadow

[Tall Shadow]

I thought I'd add this little tidbit I just found...Enjoy! T.S.

THE LEFT WING’S PLAN FOR GUNS (Elections)
by Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America
October 16, 2006


It’s time to remember what the Democrat party generally seeks regarding guns and gun rights. The list below was widely circulated while Clinton was in power.

The democrat-backed Brady group and similar outfits have been quiet about guns because they want to win the election, and get to impose their goals on your rights --


THE FIVE YEAR PLAN:

1. National Licensing of all handgun purchases.

2. Licenses for Rifle and Shotgun owners.

3. State Licenses for ownership of firearms.

4. Arsenal Licenses (5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition).

5. Arsenal License Fees (at least $300.00, with a cap of $1,000.00).

6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing (None in counties with populations of more than 200,000).

7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns.

8. Inspection License. (Gun safe licenses, yearly fee for spot inspections).

9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than 200,000.

10. Banning all military style firearms.

11. Banning Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine gun.

12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range or in transit from one to the other.

13. Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale, possession, transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group.

14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list.

15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms. (7.62x54R and .303).

16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession..

17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945).

18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of ammunition.

19. Ban the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kg. at any one time.

20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo.

21. A National License for Ammunition.

22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components.

23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

24. Requirements of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing.

25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than 200,000.

26. Special Licensing of ranges.

27. Special Range Tax to visitors. ($85.00 per visit per person).

28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges.

29. Banning Gun Shows.

30. Banning of military reenactments.

PLUS:

Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.

Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship.

Ban on all realistic replica and toy guns (including "air soft" and paintball).

The right of gun-violence victims to sue, with financial assistance from government programs, the gun manufacturers.

Taxes on ammo, dealers, guns, licenses to offset medical costs to society.

The eventual ban on all semi-automatics regardless of when made or caliber.


While it’s true Republicans haven’t done very much to defend your gun rights (OK, they have done a little) in six years of control, they offer little support for the anti-rights disarm-the-public plans the left wing will impose on you if they gain power in the next election. It’s your choice. Do you stay home and evaporate your rights, or go out and defend them at the ballot box? Tell your friends.

If you took the bait and voted early, instead of rising up as a whole and voting on election day like you’re supposed to, this message is too late and you got screwed.


Thanks for reading.
Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America

[fabsroman]

I only got half way through that and it is rather insane.

As far as the current Republicans not doing anything to help our gun rights, I think they did plenty. The ban on assault style weapons was allowed to fall into the sunset. They passed legislation that prevents frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers, which prevents the liberals from suing the manufacturers into non-existance/bankruptcy.

In Maryland, which is a pretty liberal state, this past legislative session there was an assault weapons ban bill in the General Assembly and it didn't get passed. I was pretty thankful about that one and am trying to buy my AR-10 and AR-15 before the next legislative session. Heck, I am about to write my current state senator and ask him what his position is on gun control. He is a democrat, but he takes the position that his style is not a party affiliation one, but a common sense one. He is originally from Michigan, he was in the reserves, he works for a law firm that I am pretty familiar with, and he is 34 years old, so who knows what his position is.

[Tater]

I hear Bill and Hillary are trying to make ammends. I think this pic proves it:D

[fabsroman]

What bugs me about Clinton is reading articles about him that state he is a great guy. I think the last article I read about him was in Fortune and it was about how smart he is and how charismatic he is. It dealt with how he was helping a non-profit hospital in Africa beat AIDS and how he was doing it only with his personality and charisma. He wasn't donating money, but he was encouraging people to donate money to the cause.

My issues with that article are:

1) Why isn't he donating some of his own money? I love how a columnist can put a spin on something and make him seem like a great man; and

2) Why isn't he doing things in the US to help the poor and the working man? Why do US citizens feel the need to help others overseas when we have so much to do here helping our own?

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by fabsroman
What bugs me about Clinton is reading articles about him that state he is a great guy. I think the last article I read about him was in Fortune and it was about how smart he is and how charismatic he is. It dealt with how he was helping a non-profit hospital in Africa beat AIDS and how he was doing it only with his personality and charisma. He wasn't donating money, but he was encouraging people to donate money to the cause.

My issues with that article are:

1) Why isn't he donating some of his own money? I love how a columnist can put a spin on something and make him seem like a great man; and

2) Why isn't he doing things in the US to help the poor and the working man? Why do US citizens feel the need to help others overseas when we have so much to do here helping our own?

Ha! Lol!;)

The articles you mention, sound like the stuff you hear the sheep saying about Oprah. Like...
"Oh look at how great she is!", "Wow! What a generous person she is!" When she gives someone, something...not supplied by her, but in fact provided to her free of charge. While at the same time she is one of the highest paid, richest "celebrities" in the world......but never spends "Her" money. It's always someone else's "bill".......Just like a typical liberal. Spend "Anyone's" money, but you own, on trying to fulfill your "Liberal Utopian" dreams.

Bill Clinton (And his beast of a wife) are just the leaders of the bunch. Most of their buddies in the media will fall over themselves to fawn over his, or any other liberals, "Greatness".

It's sicking! :eek:

Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

I dont have time to say much yet, but here goes.

1966, I would be willing to bet you come from a long line of democrats. You may not be that strong, but your daddy, grand daddy, ect.... are/were. Am I right?

The reason I say that, I come from a democrat family. They almost say verbatim what you posted and its all bunk. They are still thinking of the old democratic party that was like that fifty years ago. I hear people around my parts talking like that all the time and when you start pointing out what Clinton actually did compared to what Bush has done, they walk away with a new light and some even study for themselves. Not just voting the way daddy would like it.

I dont mean this in a mean way. But this aint your daddys democratic party. They changed big time since the Fifties. Dont fool yourself into thinking they are for the working man. Theres more old money blue blood in the liberal party than the conservatives ever thought of. Kennedy, Heinz, Rockerfeller, just for very few quickies. You look where liberal senators came from and compare to where conservative senators came from and tell me they are for the working man.

I gotta go. Im in a AZ motel room and it gets daylight shortly. Gonna go call some coyotes. :cool:

[jl1966]

Andy L, actually I don't come from a line of Dems, I haven't even always voted that way. I voted for Reagan in his second term, and for Bush senior. That was all back when the only issue I looked at was the gun thing. I was working a minimum wage job and Reagan raised the minimum wage .25 cents or so, and the NRA said he was a great man, so I believed it. Then I got a union job that paid decently. Contract time came around and the company was demanding big wage and benefit cuts, said we were about to break them. This is a Fortune 500 company, a major railroad, record profits every year. Negotiations drug on and finally we went on strike, for about a day. Then Bush senior ordered us back to work. After what Reagan did with the air traffic controllers, we had little option. we were assured that a presidential emergency board would be appointed to see that all were given a fair shake. Long story short we were handed the railroad deal verbatim, no changes, not one of our issues adressed. Job cuts, wage cuts, benefit reductions, the whole deal. That was the last time I voted Republican. I assure you. No mean intent here, and as I said I am not trying to start an argument. Just explaining my view.

[Tall Shadow]

More food for thought.....

NRA-ILA SPECIAL ELECTION ALERT 10/11/06




PRO-GUN VICTORIES IN THE 109TH CONGRESS--
Gun Owners’ Victories Since the 2004 Elections


Elections matter. Precisely because of our work and success in the 2002 and 2004 elections, we were able to lay the groundwork for the victories that you will read about below. Now the question before us is, “What will the future hold?” Two years from now, will we be reporting on more victories in our quest to protect and preserve the Second Amendment? Or, will our update contain bad news for gun owners? Election Day -- Tuesday, November 7 -- will be when the next chapter in the history of the Second Amendment will be written. Your work in the coming weeks will be what spells the difference between pro- and anti-gun candidates on Election Day. Thus, you will write the future legislative history of the Second Amendment.

Following is a list of the major federal victories we have seen during the 109th Congress:

· Enactment of the “Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act.” Within a year of Hurricane Katrina hitting the Gulf Coast, Congress passed the NRA-backed H.R. 5013, sponsored by Representative Bobby Jindal (R-La.), by an overwhelming 322-99 vote. This bill amended federal emergency laws to prohibit federal, state, and local authorities from confiscating lawfully-owned firearms during emergencies or disasters. Senator David Vitter’s (R-La.) amendment to prohibit the use of funds appropriated under the Homeland Security appropriations bill (H.R. 5441) for the confiscation of lawfully possessed firearms during an emergency or disaster passed the U.S. Senate by an historic 84-16 vote. The Jindal bill was substituted for the Vitter amendment in the conference committee and President Bush signed it into law on October 4.

· Enactment of the “Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.” President Bush, marking the culmination of six years of hard work by NRA-ILA and gun owners nationwide, signed “The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act” (S. 397) into law on October 26, 2005, thus ending the campaign of politically motivated lawsuits designed to bankrupt law-abiding American firearm manufacturers and retailers. The Senate passed S. 397 by a 65-31 vote on July 29, 2005 and then by the House by a 283-144 vote on October 20, 2005.

· Enactment of the “Tiahrt Amendment.” This amendment protects gun owners’ privacy by prohibiting the release of firearm trace data to any entity except a law enforcement agency conducting a bona fide criminal investigation involving the firearm.

· Enactment of a tax exemption for custom gunsmiths. During the same week the Senate passed S. 397, NRA-ILA helped win an important but less-publicized victory for small custom gunsmiths. A massive highway construction bill (which President Bush promptly signed into law) contained an amendment that exempts manufacturers of fewer than 50 firearms from “manufacturing” excise taxes.

· House Passage of H.R. 5092. The NRA-backed “Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) Modernization and Reform Act,” by Representatives Howard Coble (R-N.C.) and Bobby Scott (D-Va.), passed the U.S. House of Representatives by an overwhelming bi-partisan 277-131 vote. H.R. 5092 was drafted in large part to address BATFE abuses at Richmond, Virginia area gun shows last year, which were detailed in three oversight hearings by the House Crime Subcommittee this spring. The measure will help curb BATFE’s efforts to revoke dealers’ licenses for minor paperwork errors, establish new guidelines for BATFE investigations, and improve the appeals process for dealers. It will also provide more accountability and much-needed reform to this federal law enforcement agency.

· Enactment of critical hunting and conservation legislation. Sportsmen and wildlife scored a critical victory when House and Senate negotiators approved a provision in the 2007 Defense Authorization Act that will save the herds of elk and mule deer on Santa Rosa Island (the second largest of California’s Channel Islands) from court-ordered eradication. With encouragement from NRA-ILA, this Congress correctly determined it is in the public interest to maintain this sanctuary for these two remarkable species of animals.

Clearly, the past two years represent one of the most successful congressional sessions that gun owners have ever had. But make no mistake--all of our hard work and vital victories must be protected! This year’s elections are critically important, as their outcome will determine whether our hard-fought gains will stand or fall.

The House Judiciary Committee has just sent several important pro-gun reform bills to the floor, but if control of the Congress changes hands, the new chairman of that committee would be John Conyers of Michigan—the only House member still serving who voted for the Gun Control Act of 1968, voted against the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act of 1986, denounced crime-fighting proposals (such as Project Exile) that to his way of thinking “unwisely place a great emphasis on enforcement programs,” and has repeatedly called for a national ban on handgun ownership and possession!

And while many bills start out in Judiciary, they must all pass through the House Rules Committee before they go to the floor. The Rules Committee is a nearly all-powerful body that sets the ground rules for how a bill will be debated on the House floor—and on the amendments that can be offered. In line to fill that gate-keeping role: Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.). Rep. Slaughter is a persistent cosponsor of anti-gun bills, including a bill to ban .50 caliber rifles, and another to reverse the Bush administration’s policy of destroying instant check records on law-abiding gun buyers.

Of course, the last check on this anti-gun attack would be the House leadership itself. But don’t look for much hope there, because would-be Speaker Nancy Pelosi also has a decades-long anti-gun track record. Pelosi, a close ally of fellow San Franciscan Dianne Feinstein, co-chaired the 1992 Democratic platform committee that endorsed gun bans, gun licensing, and gun registration, and joined Conyers in opposing expansion of Project Exile enforcement programs against violent criminals. Pelosi’s sorry record on Second Amendment issues was underscored by one of her first acts on joining her party’s leadership; when she was elected House Minority Whip, she hired a former Handgun Control, Inc. spokesman as her communications director.

None of these pro-gun victories would have been possible with Pelosi, Conyers and Slaughter in control of the U.S. House of Representatives. The message for gun owners and sportsmen is obvious. Elections matter, and votes count. We cannot take our past victories for granted; we must continue the fight. Pro-Second Amendment candidates can only win if NRA members lend their support to those who support our gun rights and hunting heritage.

Please refer to the previous two Grassroots Alerts for activities you need to undertake to ensure victory on November 7--registering to vote, contacting your EVC, volunteering on pro-gun campaigns, etc. NRA-PVF grades and endorsements are now available online at www.NRAPVF.org.

(I am a hunter too)