Anybody else have this experience with the 17 HM2?

[Ridge Runner]

OK, I really like to hunt squirrels, it was my first hunting experience and I greatly enjoy it. now a little background on the subject. As a kid the only acceptable weapon for squirrel hunting was a shotgun, the guage depended on your level of recoil tolerence, about 1975 I started using a rimfire 22 LR as you all know was "all there is". over the years I took hundreds of the tree rats with a 22 LR, in that time once I shot a very nice mellanistic (black) grey squirrel, in the head. got it to the house and it wasn't dead, totaly incapacitated but not dead, in a vegatative state you might say, would kick and thrash when you touched it.
Since it was a rare black one and I wanted to have it mounted I just let it expire, took a couple hours, thats the only time that happened with a 22 LR.
Last year around christmas I purchased a savage mark II LH in 17 HM2, mounted a 4x16 V series weaver on it with a .25 MOA dot, shoots like a house afirehave shot 5 groundhogs with the lil rifle, one at 148 yds, and 2 date I have killed 18 squirrels with it, now out of those 18, there were 4 all headshot, that were totaly incapacitated but not dead, yesterday shot one broadside through the eye, came out the other eye and he just ran off 40 yds and set down, I dispatched him but can't for the life of me figure out how he survived the initial impact? anybody else seen this? any comments? sorry for the long post
RR

[Dom]

RR, does sound funny, as that must be a pretty good shock wave once a .17HM hits. 'bout the only thing I can offer is the 'head shots' were probably peripheral, i.e., thru the eyes wouldn't have affected the nervous system. Interesting post, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Ridge Runner]

yeah, I know, those 4 weren't shot dead center, but all of them but the one shot through the eyes had exposed brain matter, and I figured that the v-max ripping by the optic nerve should have sent enough shock-wave to the brain for a kill, just can't believe how much of a shock to the brain they can stand.
RR

[Mickey Rat]

My son had the same experiance with the 17 M2. Head shot with minimal damage.

I think that rang is the factor. I bet your shot was a close one, right? Less than 35 yards?

Your problem is that you are using a 7MM Mag @ 75 yards. Not good with deer, not good with squirrel.

My first squirrel with my 17 HMR was @ about 50 yards, a body shot and it was a mess. Made me decide to retire the 17 HMR from quirrel hunting in favor of the 22 short.

Just too much power and not enough target IMHO.

Use the 17 as a long range sniper. Mine does 3/8" @ 100 yds.

[Riposte1]

I have a 10-22 converted to this caliber. Oddly enough my "adventures" with the .17M2 involve Chickens (not shooting them, but saving them).

While I have a range in the back yard, I have neighbors to my North and South - dont ask me why I picked a place where the range has to point West :-(. So a light caliber rifle that does not richochet is a definite plus at times.

One evening near sundown my wife heard one of the hens alarmed and I happened to grab the .17 as I ran out the door. Rounding the corner I saw movement (white hen floundering) and when I put the scope on it there was a reddish brown mound which I assumed to be a fox, which had it down. I shot the critter and heard the impact and it instantly let the hen go. It then started off (I had hit it dead center in the spine - fore to aft) but its back legs didn't work.

The range was about 75 yards and as it moved away, fairly quicky for a critter than had no use of its rear legs, I shot it again, heard the hit but it kept going. I shot it twice more and it finally slowed and lay down. When I went up to it it was still trying to move but couldnt - I shot it with a .45 that I always have and that put a rather dramatic end to the episode.

The next one came when I arrived home after sundown and saw a flashlight in the little house my wife had commandeered for her chickens. I knew something was up so I came by and sure enough there was a racoon up in the rafters stalking the hens that were scared to death but not moving.

The only shot was in the genereal direction of the neighbors house so I went for the .17 again and set up where if I missed the bullet would go upward. Remembering the fox I decided to shoot this critter 3 times as fast as I could.

Now this is a very small concrete block building (the eaves are wood however). At the shots everything came unglued! The chickens flew (hitting me in the head and knocking off my hat), the coon charged causing me to move off the line of attack reflexively and getting tangled up in a bunch of boxes. When the coon hit the floor - fully active - it decided to retreat to a cluttered corner instead of climb my leg. Since all the chickens were out I shut the door and decided to let him cool off.

Next moring, to my surprise, I opened the door and there was a 'possumm resting against it! He must have been in the building unoticed the night before. I let him pass and he ambled off disgusted. After searching a bit I found the coon, stiff as a board. 3 tiny holes in and right behind the shoulder - no exits.

Have not shot any squirrels with it. Hope it does not tear up much meat because that is probably the niche for this cartridge.

Sorry to go so long.
Riposte

PS: I know converting the 10/22 to .17 HM2 is risky to the gun, it is an experiment and I am not recommending it (at first this gun was a .17 Aguila but that did not work out well).

PPS: did a trigger job on a friends 1911 with a .17 Kimber Conversion - it was extremely accurate for a handgun at 100 yards. Interesting gun.

[Ridge Runner]

Riposte,
experience has shown me that once the weight of the game exceeds 7-8 pounds, you don't have any dramatic DRT kills with the HM2, just not enough bullet weight to get the job done, half grown groundhogs die really fast where adults will almost always get back to they're holes.
Do you have the heavy bolt handle on your 10/22 conversion? If not you are battering your bolt as you shoot it.
RR

[Riposte1]

RR;

Sounds like you have more experience with this cartridge than me (I dont have much). I could easily beleive your estimate on the appropriate targets.

Do you have experience with the HMR round, I was wondering if that would handle the coons and fox where noise and richochet are a problem?

No, I dont have the heavy bolt. I built this thing before the HM2 came out and shot it as a .17 Aguila - which was a flop - the bullets were actually jacketed like centerfire rifle bullets and they would not expand in any material I found.

After the HM2 came out I had it rechambered, but did not go with the heavy bolt. It is sort of a "torture test" to see at what point it will start to peen. I probaly only have 200 rounds through the gun though and that doesnt tell much - and to be honest I have not taken it down in the last 50 rounds. I should do that!

I am thinking about turning out one of those heavy bolt handles just for insurance.

Then again, I paid a whole $20 for this rifle (not counting the barrel), I guess I can probably live with it if it wears out :-)

Thanks for the excellent feedback!

Riposte

[Ridge Runner]

no experience with the hummer, but all reports I've read says they do pretty well if you use the 20 gr gamepoint loads, the 17 gr v-max's turn to dust on impact at 2500 fps.
However you will get 100 percent penetration on coons and fox with the 20 gr. loads, most owners report complete penetration on coyotes most of the time.
RR

[Riposte1]

RR;
Thanks again. I can relate to the "turn to dust" thing. Someone once missread my order and sent me a couple hundred rounds of .223 50 gr frangible ammo.

One night when a racoon raided the chicken coop I decided to try the stuff out and whacked a big one right in the shoulder (it was quartering toward me and I could not shoot it further back wihtout gut shooting it and even a coon deserves a clean death).

Big mistake! The critter dissapeard out of sight behind my building making all sorts of racket. Being in my house (shooting from the laundry room) I had to make it to the door and then travel outside, not knowing the condition of the coon. When I got there it had finally expired and there was a baseball sized hole where I had hit it but it was only an inch deep. Perhaps there were some fragments of the copper jacket that cut an artery or something to kill the thing but the wound did not look all that lethal. It certainly wasn't a quick death.

I will never shoot another critter bigger than a mouse with that load!

Best regards,
Riposte

[Andy L]

Yep, Ive had some experience the the Mach II and my son has had even more experience than I have. Hes been pillaging the local rabbit and squirrel populations with mine. If there has been a better rifle for that purpose ever built, I dont know what it is. Head shots are a given. Headless. Body shots, behind the shoulder, are reminicient of a 17Rem on a coyote. Small entrance, liquified chest cavity and no exit. Gut shots are messy. Shoulder shots ruin one leg and liquify the chest caivity but normally dont hurt the off shoulder. All these seem to be pretty predictable. Im very impressed and more than pleased. This kind of performance and you can do it accurately out to 150 yrds without having to guesstimate the distance. Impressive.

Having said that, seeing what it does to body shots and shoulder shots on rabbits and squirrels, its not going to be worth a fllip for anything bigger. It most likely wont be a coon or possum gun. Sure not a fox or coyote gun. Which, btw, you HMR is in no way a coyote gun, regarless of what ammo you use. Its nothing more than a sooped up Mach II runnin the same bullet 400 fps faster. Its a fox gun at best. You shoot many coyotes and you will cripple more than you kill. And the 20gr bullet doesnt help. It will bore a little hole all the way thru and leave very little internal damage. No free lunch, you cant have it both ways and the HMR wont do it. The frangible bullets are too frangible and the hard nosed bullets slip right thru.

Whoever said they have a 223 that splashed on a coon, please post what type of ammo that is. That makes me curious. Not saying it didnt happen, just very curious.

All in all, I think the Mach II is probably the best rimfire invented since the 22lr. Fantastic, as long as you know its limitations. The HMR on the other hand, kinda missed the niche. Too much for small game and too little for big game. I have a coon huntin buddy that tried his and was very disappointed. Wont penetrate a coon skull and tears the hell out of body shots, splashing without killing. Bad deal. I dont know that the HMR has a niche.

BTW, mine is a Marlin 717M2, Semi Auto. Great little gun. :cool: