Wheres the Libs?

[Andy L]

There always seems to be a liberal or two hanging around, even on a board where that is nuts. Well, where are you? Bring it on. I want to hear some crowing and touting your leaders.

Ive spent several years, good years, listening to bleeding hearts whine, now they got what they want. Bring it on. I want to hear you crow!! That way I can rub your nose it in for the next two or more years.

Where are you wimps?

[BILLY D.]

da problm is day ain't got nothin'. wate till there tackses goes up and they tern tale and run out of erak. thay says this wood be anuthr veetnom.

Well all ther wishes have come true. May thay basc in glori.

Jest the fealings of a dum veteren. john Skerry said so.

SOB, sure is hard to write this way. LILRED you have my respect and admiration.

[Tall Shadow]

I just hope that all of the "I'm not voting in protest!", " I don't like everything about either of them, so I'm voting for the third party candidate!", and the "There is nothing wrong with voting for a Democratic canidate...It's not like they are after My guns!" Morons enjoy the next few years.

God help us all...:mad:

Tall Shadow

PS +2 years....We TOLD you so.

[buckhunter]

Being from Taxachuetts I am a red dot in a sea of blue. The bastards will never get me down. If history is right we have a 12 years of liberal crap to look foward to. The GOP will be back in 2018 or so.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by buckhunter
Being from Taxachuetts I am a red dot in a sea of blue. The bastards will never get me down. If history is right we have a 12 years of liberal crap to look foward to. The GOP will be back in 2018 or so.

If there is still an American republic for them to come back to....(or any GOP).

[Purebred Redneck]

I'm not a regular on this forum anymore but I'll take your bait Andy :) ;)
And certainly I'm not the only democrat on this forum. I suspect a sizable number is.

This is going to sound very unorganized but I have many different things to say

1. We democrats (not liberals by the way) ;) won because of the hardheadedness of the president. I was never for the war and still not. But I understand we are there now and can't change the fact. But what we're doing is not working as planned yet there is no proposed changes --- from either side. I'm pleased to see Bush as released the sec of state (though I wonder if he would of done so had the republican kept congress). I think Bolton's out as well.
And I really think you guys could of kept congress had Bush fired Rumsfeld in october as part of a political move to keep congress.

2. As far as massachusets is concerned, I find nothing wrong with thier politians - including kennedy, kerry, and the newly elected black governor, as well as the other elected officials. Likewise, I find nothing wrong with the ultra conservative states politicians. See, the people vote in who they want. And Kennedy and Kerry wouldn't keep winning elections unless they weren't who the people of the state want. Not all states or people who live there are what people who live on the opposite side of the country want them to be.
I understand your anger though for those republicans that live in Mass.

3. As far as congress's agenda is concerned
I'd like to see talk of national health insurance, immigration, and social security. We haven't seen this serouis talk in 5 years.
As far as the rumers of impeachment - as much as I'd like to see it happen (come on the Clinton impeachment was the repulbican's attempt to overthrow the president for no valid reason) it's not going to be discussed unless something new happens. I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't hurt the democrats in 08 but it won't help them as much as getting more of a grip on the other issues I mentioned - insurance, immigration, and social security. I think congress is still too divided on these issues but if the democrats can be seen as the party who "initiated" these talks they stand an excellent chance of gaining even more seats in 08. And I think then they stand an excellent chance of a social security "lock box" and national health care in 2010-2014 if we can gain more congress seats and get a democrat - or at least McCain in the white house.

4. As far as who will run for President, I'm assuming McCain will get the republican nod. It's way too early to tell though. As far as the democratic side is concerned I see either Clinton, Kerry, or Obama. I think either would do about the same (both general election results and the job should they be president). Like Bill Clinton or not, the democrats and many independants did. I think by giving Hilary the nomination you will get a lot of votes. I don't think she can beat McCain simply because she is a woman as well as the fact that Mccain is a moderate. Obama stands a good chance. He'll get the democratic black vote and the blue collar democrats will vote for him as well because he's not "black" in the sense.
I think Kerry though stands the best chance of them all. Afterall, he almost won the first time - when the republican party was stronger.
Kerry vs Mcain
Geez, what a close election this would be. It could be said they are pretty much the same people :confused:

5. Just a touch on guns
Now we know certain politicians are anti gun. Democrats are not going to take away guns. Consider the number of gun owning democrats. Agree with it or not, democrats make up a HUGE number of gun owners --- maybe as high as 50%. Blue collar factory, construction, utility, highway workers...
Democrats aren't going to do something stupid with guns. This is a scare tactic by the republican party and NRA (who has to be hard lined in their nature so this post isn't an all out rant on the NRA. They possition themselves the way they do because of lobbying nature of government...as does PETA) I support neither as neither tells the truth or makes sense.
Andy, do you get or heard of the "River Hills Travellor". It's a southern missouri outdoor monthly paper / magazine on hunting and fishing the ozarks. I can't find my nov. issue - and naturally it's the one I need. But to translate the editorial --- to all you yellowdog democrats of the South. Don't let gun control, a made up threat, make you vote on the side of Big Business.

And that's what I consider myself to me --- a yellowdog democrat. Pro FDR, Pro Clinton, southern, pro-union democrat that will vote for any democrat (inlcuding a dog should my cainaine friend be nominated) before voting for any republican.

I'm the big dumb fish that took the bait - so set the hook and reel me in :D :D :D

[Tall Shadow]

OK, I'll jump in....
Let's go point to point.


Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
I'm not a regular on this forum anymore but I'll take your bait Andy :) ;)
And certainly I'm not the only democrat on this forum. I suspect a sizable number is.

This is going to sound very unorganized but I have many different things to say


I don't have any trouble in it being unorganized, let's begin....


Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
1. We democrats (not liberals by the way) ;) won because of the hardheadedness of the president. I was never for the war and still not. But I understand we are there now and can't change the fact. But what we're doing is not working as planned yet there is no proposed changes --- from either side. I'm pleased to see Bush as released the sec of state (though I wonder if he would of done so had the republican kept congress). I think Bolton's out as well.
And I really think you guys could of kept congress had Bush fired Rumsfeld in october as part of a political move to keep congress.

The Liberals are who won in this election...plain and simple. You need only look at the plained majority leader, whip, or any of the other already named party heads....they are not just democrats, they are hard-line LIBERALS. You're not the type of democrat who will hold/control power in this house/senate.....they will.

The war is a much more simple concept. The "War on terror" isn't a war against a country, or a state...but a war on a mindset, an idea. We can not point to any particular country and say "Everyone" in that country is a terrorist!", but Rather to a regime/political system or group, sometimes sponsored by a state/country. It's not like WWII or any other war before, where whole countries were the targets of our aggression. We therefore can not simply "Bomb them back to the stone age!" or solve this problem in a simplistic way.

We must seek out the large sponsors first, like Iraq and Afghanistan. Cutting off the funding, bases, and relative safety that these people have enjoined up until now.

But just as any journey begins with one small step, We have to start this war somewhere...and the most obvious places were Iraq and Afghanistan.

Were these the only places that "Terrorists" were/are? NO!
Will the "War on terror" be over when we are finished there? NO!
Will it make a Huge difference when we establish a fledgling democrocy there. Yes!, Yes it will!

Terrorist exist because of ignorance, exploitation.
Knowledge/Freedom kills these conditions.
If we succeed, the end will be in sight for this madness. Freedom will only have a new and fertile "Soil" in which to grow.

What you and I see in the media is .001% of the real story in Iraq/Afganistan. Ask any vets/solders who are there, we have made Unbeleivable progress there!

But good news dosen't sell, It also dosen't sell your agenda.
The Media Does Not = the truth... never has, never will.

What you will hear from the vets is that because of the BS on the media, they are getting their "Hands tied" on effectively dealing with the trouble in the theater of operations.

The Republicans and bush, need, if anything, to be more Conservative. That is what won them virtually every race from 1992 on. RINO's (Republican In Name Only) are what has lost it for us. Like McCain, Etc.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
2. As far as massachusets is concerned, I find nothing wrong with thier politians - including kennedy, kerry, and the newly elected black governor, as well as the other elected officials. Likewise, I find nothing wrong with the ultra conservative states politicians. See, the people vote in who they want. And Kennedy and Kerry wouldn't keep winning elections unless they weren't who the people of the state want. Not all states or people who live there are what people who live on the opposite side of the country want them to be.
I understand your anger though for those republicans that live in Mass.

Wow! Nothing wrong with Kennedy? To Quote a true bumper sticker "Ted Kennedy has killed more people than all of my guns put together!"
Kerry's a whole series of posts in/of himself.
I don't know the new governor, so I can't comment.
If the state votes someone in, that is that. The trouble is the ignorance/apathy in the general populace. They will ***** about how bad it is, but not do anything to change it.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
3. As far as congress's agenda is concerned
I'd like to see talk of national health insurance, immigration, and social security. We haven't seen this serouis talk in 5 years.
As far as the rumers of impeachment - as much as I'd like to see it happen (come on the Clinton impeachment was the repulbican's attempt to overthrow the president for no valid reason) it's not going to be discussed unless something new happens. I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't hurt the democrats in 08 but it won't help them as much as getting more of a grip on the other issues I mentioned - insurance, immigration, and social security.{SNIP}

You need only look to our friends in Canada on how Poorly "National Health care" works. My whole family is from there....Many save their money and come here to get things done. others just do without. Government isn't who I/we want running this...they suck at ALL social programs.

And unless ->you<- are paying for it yourself, I already pay for mine/my family's...with My hard earned money. If someone needs it, let Them pay for their own. I support more than enough freeloaders with my tax dollars now. I will not support any more.
Immigration is a whole nother Pandora's box. But the very first thing that need to be done is to secure the borders. Until that is done EVERYTHING else is a moot point.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
4. As far as who will run for President, I'm assuming McCain will get the republican nod. It's way too early to tell though. As far as the democratic side is concerned I see either Clinton, Kerry, or Obama. I think either would do about the same (both general election results and the job should they be president). Like Bill Clinton or not, the democrats and many independants did. I think by giving Hilary the nomination you will get a lot of votes. I don't think she can beat McCain simply because she is a woman as well as the fact that Mccain is a moderate. Obama stands a good chance. He'll get the democratic black vote and the blue collar democrats will vote for him as well because he's not "black" in the sense. {SNIP}

If McCain runs, and gets the nod... the Republicans are done. McCain isn't a moderate, he's a RINO, he would cost the republicans the election for sure.

Look for Hitlery being your canidate....not 100% yet, but it's looking like that.

Kerry almost won the first time? Hahahahaha! check your numbers, Largest voter turn out EVER!, Largest vote gap EVER!
It wasn't even close.....

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
5. Just a touch on guns
Now we know certain politicians are anti gun. Democrats are not going to take away guns. Consider the number of gun owning democrats. Agree with it or not, democrats make up a HUGE number of gun owners --- maybe as high as 50%. Blue collar factory, construction, utility, highway workers...
Democrats aren't going to do something stupid with guns. This is a scare tactic by the republican party and NRA (who has to be hard lined in their nature so this post isn't an all out rant on the NRA. They possition themselves the way they do because of lobbying nature of government...as does PETA) I support neither as neither tells the truth or makes sense. (SNIP)

Who are the TOP anti-gun politicians?
Finestine, Pelosi, Shummer, Waxman, Kennedy, Conyers....need I go on?
Who are being named in to the top leadership positions in the house/senate? (See Above^^^^)
Thinking that a Tiger will suddenly stop being a tiger, because you call it a dog.....dosen't make it so.
Ask Roy (of Siegfried & Roy) about how "Tame" tigers stop being tigers.
Thinking that Staunchly ANTI-GUN people will stop being staunchly Anti-Gun People, because it sounds good, or "would be silly!" is living in a fantasy land.

These Ain't your Daddy's Democrats.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
And that's what I consider myself to me --- a yellowdog democrat. Pro FDR, Pro Clinton, southern, pro-union democrat that will vote for any democrat (inlcuding a dog should my cainaine friend be nominated) before voting for any republican.

Vote how you will, this is a free country.

Believing that ->ANY<- democrat is better than ->ANY<- Republican, based only on that is foolish.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
I'm the big dumb fish that took the bait - so set the hook and reel me in :D :D :D

No need. You are free to do as you wish. I will simply show Our side, why I think it is better, and why I think your position is not the correct one.

In the end, we must all chose what/who we believe in.

Tall Shadow

[Purebred Redneck]

Thanks for a very civil reply

I'll rebut briefly before anyone else posts something different

Sticking to the same # format

1. From what I gather from anyalsts after the election, the new democrats that were elected were fairly conservative as opposed to incumbant dems that have been there a while --- the leaders as you mention. It's no secret democrats are more liberal in social programs and dollars but we didn't see too much anti-war, treehugging, gun taking candidates. Remember, we took away a lot of people who have voted republican in the past. You have to be somewhat conservative to do that.

I think Afganistan was a country that needed an overthrow. I dont think there was a lot of dispute against that.
Iraq was the problem. I do think we broke international laws overthrowing the legal and undisputed leader - though dictator. I also think it was a personal revenge on the part of the president for what Sadam did to his father --- mentioned in the campaign of 2000. So I think this "illegal" ousting is the main problem right now. Sadam was far from muslim extremism - Iraq was the most secular, modern country in the region. We seemed to attempt to fix something that was broken but yet contained.

2. we have different opinions on kerry and kennedy. I have the same opposite views of people like Gingritch (sp), Lott, Bush, Sean hannity, etc. Although suprisingly I like Pat Buchanean of all people. :eek: :rolleyes:

3. Like anything, I think it depends on who you talk to. I know a couple people online from Canada and their insurance is second to none here in the states. Companies here don't have great insurance plans - and this is caused by insurance and hosptials being "for profit". I pay over 150 dollars a month just for myself in insurance premiums. Even if that same dollar amount goes to the government for healthcare, the plan would be so much better. MY healthcare package sucks and the plan is actually above average of what most people have. I stand by the belief that all americans are entitled to affordable healthcare. The healthcare industry has to be driven to it's knees as does a couple other industies like big oil.

Also with war, it depends on who you talk to. My one republican friend came back says as you did - we're doing good things. I have 3 other friends who came back and said this was total disaster.

4. Ok so Kerry lost by quite a few votes. Vote numbers really don't matter as he was only one state away from victory. Vote numbers really don't matter --- just look at 200 :rolleyes: ;) :mad: Kerry got 48% of the popular vote in 2004. Bush won in 2000 with only 47% The % really doesn't matter. Kerry kept it close at a time when republicans were running pretty good.

5. Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, Pulosi, Shummer, Reid, etc are leaders because of their leadership skills. This is part of the party platform but also their character. Clinton and Kerry have strong leadership traits that speak for a lot of different people. I think Pulosi and Shummer have a public speaking talent that is somewhat soft and assertive at the same time. Then you have hardliners like Kennedy which I think is good to have to remind democrats that politics is a war so to speak and that they have enemies. Everyone there has a different purpose and talent. Like them or not, they are very powerfull spokespeople.
As far them trying to take guns away, I still stand by the opinion that they won't make the attempt even if they personally wanted to. BTW, I do think there is a HUGE difference between reasonable and unreasonable gun control.
There's not enough votes to pass truely unreasonable illegal gun laws. There's not enough "liberals" in congress to do that. These liberal leaders aren't even going to bring it up because it will be shot down faster than a dove trying to run the gauntlet of a strip of sunflowers.


A good discussion though

[skeet]

Have to answer your post even though I have tried to not get involved.
Item 1(following you). I'd rather not be involved in a war in Iraq....But since we took on Saddam etc...we haven't had any more large scale terrorist things happen here. I'd rather our military was fighting the extremists there than having civilians fightin 'em here. Without the military answer that the US used...we'd still be having them happen here.

2. Of course the people vote in who they want..but the problem is that these people vote in senators etc that affect what happens in the rest of the country. I know the US is a representative republic. It really is a shame that the civil war was won by the yankees...cause this is what the civil war was REALLY fought over. The south in the 1850-60's was being told what they could or couldn't do by politicians who didn't even live there. And most people think it was fought over slavery!Happening now also.

3. National Health insurance. Don't you think that the tax paying public is paying enough now for unproductive "citizens? I agree that there are people who need health care and should get the help...but there are so many more who just let the average joe pay for them...cradle to grave. How about weeding them out of the system. Make the one's who are able to work for the "common" good. They are taking from the common tax trough. And I'm not talking about old people not getting what they deserve and need. They worked for it and should get it. I am talking about the ones who were able to work and didn't. What do they "deserve"?? Your tax money. Well you go give 'em what you thnk they should have

I personally would rather be able to put some of the money I would pay into Social security under my own control. But no...the Democrats REALLY don't want that. They use the social security and welfare systems as their platform base. BTW there really is NO social Security trust fund. The dems(and to some lesser degree, Republicans) use the Social security money in the general fund...to "balance" the budget. As far as impeaching Clinton.."for no valid reason??". I really do expect the President of the US to be someone with good moral values! And someone who says things like I tried marijuana...but didn't inhale. C'mon...or what we were doing wasn't REALLY sex....And whether he likes the Military or not...he really should respect them rather than what Clinton did to them. As far as Mrs. Clinton...Have you ever taken no money and turned it into more than 100,000 dollars..legally?? And then have no knowledge of how ya did it? I doubt it...and you would really have to question that too..if you were objective.

4. As far as Kerry running. I hope not. His wife is a foreign national with leanings to foreign interests. Not good for OUR country. And In my opinion, Kerry was involved in traitorous acts here in this country...along with that actual traitor Jane Fonda. Most of the others would have us so tied up with the UN we'd end up being a client state of the UN. If you want to give up your individual freedoms...go somewhere else so you can do it just for yourself...not the rest of the American populace. And we surely don't need more illegal aliens in this country... More jobs gone and notheing coming into the social security system. What part of ILLEGAL don't the democrats understand? or the repulicans for that matter.

5 As far as guns... How dumb can ya be. The unions supported the Senators and Representatives that sponsored Nafta..which did away with so many AMERICAN jobs immediately. Did you support the politicians that passed that most stupid law?? I saw a long time ago that my union dues were being spent in opposition to what my brother union members believed in. The International told us to shut up...but send our dues. These are the same politicians that want your firearms and other rights too, if they can get them. And the Unions and their members will go along with this agenda just like good little sheople. The main thing the Unionists want is more money...they could usually care less about the other issues. Guns and gun control are so far out of their loop they can't see it. Part of the reasons the large auto companies are in such dire straits is because of the Unions. Do you know what percentage of the price of a car is union wages and pensions? And now they cry because we don't buy substandard union products. And NO it isn't only the union!!

This type of person is not what I consider myself to be. I feel I should have some say over my own destiny contrary to the people and politicians you seem to support. The government taking care of me and my money from cradle to grave is nothing other than communism which I would hope even you would refuse to support.

You may be an FDR democrat, a pro union, Clinton supporter....but one thing you ain't is a Southern Democrat. I happen to be one of them..and can tell you Southern Democrats are a lot more conservative than you seem to be.

Not flaming you...just pointing out the differences between the facts.... and what you want us to believe. Take off the rose colored glasses. Open your eyes to what is really happening in the world. Them Arab terrorists want you AND me dead, bud...not converted. WOW..did I really say all that??

Forgive some of the spelling. My fangers is too big for this laptop keyboard.

[Purebred Redneck]

Have to answer your post even though I have tried to not get involved.
Item 1(following you). I'd rather not be involved in a war in Iraq....But since we took on Saddam etc...we haven't had any more large scale terrorist things happen here. I'd rather our military was fighting the extremists there than having civilians fightin 'em here.

Interesting, and I agree. I also think we are creating more terrorists than ever though. I think if we could of stayed out of Iraq, fully completed the objectives in Afganistan with international support, and continued to work to stabilize Isreal and the Palistinians that we would be in a lot better shape than now.


National Health insurance. Don't you think that the tax paying public is paying enough now for unproductive "citizens? [...] How about weeding them out of the system.
I agree there needs to be reform in that area as well

I personally would rather be able to put some of the money I would pay into Social security under my own control. But no...the Democraps REALLY don't want that.
You're absolutly right. The key word is "security". Most people say they can manage this money better themselves. But look at the debt we're in, look at how much of your money COULD be lost in the stock market. There's not going to be many people with pensions in 50 years. They are going to depend on a 401k (which people can screw up by not having one) and social security. Social security, medicare, etc exists so that the elderly and disabled have the three basic elements to live 1. food 2. water. 3. shelter.
I think it is better to keep social security from the public hands. Yes, it stands to make more money for you but it also stands to lose the money that older people desperatly need. And we're old and grey we are going to need this "gauranteed" money to pay our bills in all likelyhood.

As far as impeaching Clinto.."for no valid reason??". I really do expect the President of the US to be someone with good moral values and someone who says things like I tried marijuana...but didn't inhale. C'mon...or what we were doing wasn't REALLY sex....
He banged an fat intern and lied about it. Is that so bad? I did it 4 times this week and she was a lot uglier than monica :rolleyes:
Naw, the republicans HATED Clinton...HATED CLINTON and I would say actually feared him and what he could accompish because it was against the republican agenda.


What part of ILLEGAL don't the democrats understand? or the repulicans for that matter.
Yep

Do you know what percentage of the price of a car is union wages and pensions?
Yes I do, my grandfather and dad both retired from Ford.
And do you really think Ford, GM, etc, construction contractors, etc are going to pass the savings on to the consumer or to the company???
Hmm...that's why union and non-union houses cost the same money for the consumer. The owner is pocketing the rest.


You're right I am talking more like a socialist than a southerner.
Maybe I need to start a third party and call it the "Southern Socialist" party :D

I hope no other posts came in while I'm typing because my hands are getting tired :rolleyes:

[skeet]

We aren't creating the terrorists.. The clerics and moneyed people backing the terrorists are creating them. They brainwash some poor schmuck into strapping on a bomb or whatever and doing what they don't have the nerve to do themselves. You(and many other liberals) think we are fighting a war with another country. We aren't. This is a war of a democratic way of life with a theocracy..a religion. This(muslim) religion lost control of the world in the middle ages...and have never forgotten it. They want it back. And they did control the world....for 600 yrs or so...more actually as they were not pushed from Spain until the 1400's. As far as Israel and the Palestinians. It'll never stop till one side or the other is gone. And the Arabs etc want..no NEED the Israelis to be gone. BTW I don't think we should support the Israelis blindly either. That causes terrorism for us as much as anything.

Don't know where you get the info about the Stock market etc...but long range stock investment has always been and probably always will be very productive.. But the real thing is if people are allowed to invest the money under guidelines that can't be changed..it will all work out. Just don't let a bunch of POLITICIANS have the money to do with what they want. They always screw things up.

Well my moral values and yours would really clash I guess. I hope she wasn't uglier than Monica:rolleyes: There were other things that were wrong during that administration..Vince Foster for one..not supporting our troops with what they needed in Mogadishu...and other little things that just show him..and her... to basically be dishonest people.

As far as union and non-union houses costing the consumer the same. Trot those facts out bud. It just ain't so. I have been offered a union job and a non union job...doing the same thing for a vastly different amount of money. Course the union dues would eat up about 50% of the difference along with other costs associated with the union. I would actually have to pay more than a weeks salary to join it...and my dues would go to support politicians who's views are diametrically opposed to mine. They want to take my liberties away for the "common good"? No thanks.

How do you weed out and reform the non productive getting such a large chunk of the taxes we pay. You have no answers and neither does anyone in our government....mainly because they are scared to take the bull by the horns and just say...NO MORE... If ya take money from the public..then you should give something back to the public...other than grief!

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
I'm pleased to see Bush as released the sec of state (though I wonder if he would of done so had the republican kept congress). And I really think you guys could of kept congress had Bush fired Rumsfeld in october as part of a political move to keep congress.



I appreciate your attempt to make well-thought-out reply in a civil manner. However, I have difficulty giving credibilty (at least on political matters) to someone who does not know the difference between the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense. As of the time of this post, Secretary of State Rice had not been "released."

If it's any consolation, I believe that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld should have been dumped long, long ago, but for entirely different reasons than many who were eager for his departure.

[Purebred Redneck]

You would think a former social studies teacher would know better :rolleyes:

I would say "typo" but you just don't screw up a whole word. :rolleyes:

It was a brainfart though :o lol

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
You would think a former social studies teacher would know better :rolleyes:

I would say "typo" but you just don't screw up a whole word. :rolleyes:
It was a brainfart though :o lol

It's OK PBR, We all make mistakes.....Once. ;)

I'm somewhat surprised that you, as a self professed (former) social studies teacher would hold such Socialist/Communist views!?!?!!?
Surely your knowledge of past, and present for that matter, governments would show the utter failings of those systems of government? That supporting those who would turn this country into such a government is shear folly?!?!?

I can understand an opposing viewpoint with a valid argument. I can not understand one, based on the wish for a valid argument.

Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

I dont have the time right now, but I will make notes PBR. Be glad to give ya what ya got comin, when I do have the time. However, I also have a hard time giving you any validation at all. Yeah, your a former social studies teacher, but not one that I wouuld want teaching my kids. An admitted socialist? That took away all credibility and doesnt deserve much of a reply.

Anyway, Ill get to it soon and the only thing you have to remember is there are no conservative democrats. They may be when they are running for election, but let them win and get with the rest of their ilk and you will see they are all the same.

This thread I started was for the long haul. Not a quick short cutting. I want to feed the PBRs of the world plenty of rope over the next few months/years. That way its a sure death once and for all.

[Tall Shadow]

I just thought I'd share this little story about what Our supposed "Evil Armed Forces" are really doing, over in Iraq & Afghanistan, and some of why We need to be there.

Got a tough, but heartwarming story and a picture of John Gebhardt in Iraq. For those that did not know John, he was our former Med Group Chief, Dave Nordel replaced him. Anyway, his wife talked with mine last evening and sent this picture. Mindy related that this little girl's entire family was executed.They intended to execute her also and shot her in the head but they failed to kill her. She was cared for by John's hospital and healing up, but has been crying and moaning. The nurses said John is the only one she seems to calm down with, so John has spent the last four nights holding her while they both sleep in that chair. The girl is coming along with her healing.

John comes home in early October.

He is a real Star of the war and is representative of what America is trying to do.

http://i9.tinypic.com/2ebbbsl.jpg


Origins: This moving photograph shows Chief Master Sgt. John Gebhardt, superintendent of the 22nd Wing Medical Group at McConnell Air Force Base in Kansas, holding an injured Iraqi girl. The picture was taken in October 2006, while Sgt. Gebhardt was deployed to Balad Air Base in Iraq. According to the Air Force Print News, the infant girl Sgt. Gebhardt held in his arms "received extensive gunshot injuries to her head when insurgents attacked her family killing both of her parents and many of her siblings."

Sgt. Gebhardt is now back home in Wichita, Kansas, with his wife and two children. An Air Force Link article about the sudden fame he gained as the subject of this photograph reported that:
The chief had a knack for comforting [the injured Iraqi girl] and they often would catch a cat nap together in a chair.

"I got as much enjoyment out of it as the baby did," he said. "I reflected on my own family and life and thought about how lucky I have been."

While deployed to Iraq, the chief tried to help out any way he could. He figured holding a baby that needed comforting that would free up one more set of arms that could be providing care to more critical patients.

"I pray for the best for the Iraqi children," he said. "I can't tell the difference between their kids and our kids. The Iraqi parents have the same care and compassion for their children as any American."


As you can see PBR, not everything is as you see it in the news, or reported to you buy your DNC "friends". There is so much good being done, that will never be shown....I know that the above story is one small example.....although I wouldn't put it passed the DNC to try to get more good news out when they are "back In" after January......And their buddies at the major news networks will be happy to help....

You see PBR, these same people who shot this girl, killed her family, and are trying to kill our soldiers over there... are the ones who rejoiced at Your electing the democrats back into power. Think about that for a minute....Why would this be?

These same people, the exact same people who have stated that they want Every single Man, Woman, and child from the west DEAD, are happy because of your actions......

But, what do I know...I'm sure it's all an effect of "Global Warming"...which is Bush's fault too..of course. :rolleyes:


I'll sure feel safe from now on................. NOT!



Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

I will take time for this PBR. You pretty much shot yourself and your credibility down several times on your own, but the one that spoke the most volume to me is the FDR democrat statement.

I would be willing to guess that you are a multi generation democrat, no? Your daddy, his daddy, his daddys daddy all voted democrat and thats just way it is, not?

My family is the exact same way. Im the only one with his own mind and realized that the parties values swapped sides somewhere down the line. My grandmother curses republicans, as much as she can without saying a bad word, shes a saint on earth. Anyway, I ask her about abortion, gay marriage, gun control and not supporting the military and she just cant believe the democratic party supports such things. Shes stuck in the FDR era as well.

The democratic party today is not the same. Its not run by blue collar working men. Just look at the vote. In MO alone, republicans were winning and baby killing was losing, until what came in, PBR? Inner city St Louis and KC. What vote is that PBR? Its the black/minority vote. Are they voting for the working man? Hell no, they are voting for social programs. Its that way all across the country.

And if you think democrats are soft on gun control, your dead ass wrong. You lost even more ground in my mind with your comments on some gun control being ok. I should give up some of my freedoms, for what? What good will gun control do? The bad guys gonna quit using them for crime because its against the law? They are not going to be able to get them if they are banned? Your full of it and you know it.

PBR, your posts over the years and some of your admissions on another board was enough, but this one takes the cake. I do have to get to work now, but will be back.

Admitted socialist. I didnt even think you were that far gone. Im sure as hell glad there arent more like you around. At least I hope not.

[Andy L]

Dang, I just remembered. PBR wants assult weapons banned because someone annoyed him at a range one time with an AR15. I forgot all about that. Good reason for gun control PBR. :rolleyes:

[Purebred Redneck]

I don't think I've shot myself in the foot so to speak --- I'm mearly saying things that you guys don't agree with. There's a difference between ignorance and difference of opinion and I haven't crossed the line yet.

I don't have very much time so I'll keep it as brief as possible.


As far as my education and teaching is concerened (economics, history, government, soc, psyc, etc), my main interest is sociology and culture. I believe that each culture/nation grows seperate from one another with many different histories. Most modern cultures believes theirs is the correct one. Christians didn't think twice about a mass genocide of jews and muslims in the name of god and gold during the Crusades. Now all of a sudden a Muslim Crusade is dead wrong. And I can see where we belief that - I do. It's an opposing side of a war and it also goes against christian morals. I do think muslim extremism is a problem that needs to be addressed. But comments I hear that ragheads must die --- every one of them --- are out of line. We have our own culture and we take the side of democracy. We have had our own history. As have the middle east - they have had their own history all these years. We have to understand that we have a democracy because we were ready for one. The middle east still functions best (based on their history) as religion states. WE all may be in the year 2006 but that doesn't mean that the world has caught up to eachother with morals, government, technology, etc.
And we are making new World History as we speak. It will be interesting what will eventually play out 1000 years from now.


Do I have socialist tendancies? Perhaps some. Perhaps alot. I definatly don't think it's fair to compare me to the thoughts of the former USSR, Cuba, and North Korea. I don't want to enter into this discussion as it's off topic but it's also not fair to compare these failed communists nations to the "ideal" (if you will) of socialism. You have to remember, no where in modern history was socialism actually given a fair chance --- just dictators ruling. I'm not saying we should be socialists - I'm not saying that at all. I just wanted to point out that socialism isn't a failed concept because it was really never tried in the sense.


A final note on gun control - in particular the assult weapons. When you were in grade school you got punished for other kids dicking around. Well, people are dicking around with guns - and I'm not talking about criminals and gangs. I'm talking about free citizens doing stupid things with guns.
People around here at 4 different ranges buy the cheapest ak, sks guns and all they do is go to the range with no other purpose that to shoot as many rounds as they can as fast as they can. Many disobey a range rule or two in the process as far as targets on backstops (because of homes in the area). You hav people shooting computers, laundry machines, pumpkins, etc. I almost watched a game warden get shot at at the range because he tried telling some kids to knock it off. I almost watched a drunk black guy shoot himself in the head because he tried to clear a jam on a pistol by pointing it at his head. Somehow the damned thing went off inchs from his head. There is some type of culture in the united states that says acting like a complete jack with a gun (in particular a high capacity assult weapon in my area) is the cool thing to do. In fact, it's very dangerous !!! There has to be some type of responcibily and accountability. Law enforcement can't be on public ranges at all times - not even .05% of the time. We have to teach eachother and our children how to behave with guns --- and it's not comming across very well in certain sectors of the country. Firearms serve 4 purposes
1. self defence
2. hunting
3. recreation
4. competition

Somwhere #1 and #3 got out of control. We have to put it back into control. Is gun control the answer? Probably not
Is no gun control the answer? Probably not
There has to be sensible gun laws to protect everyone - both people trying to mind their own business as well as protect from one's self.

I do not think assult weapons and semi-pistols are of themselves bad. There are responcible people out there using them. There's also a bunch of people who have no business doing so.
Is this a good reason for wanting gun control --- that too many people are behaving like idiots --- I definatly think it is and I have a hunch many gun owners do as well. The future success to the gun industry is a respect for the sport and not creating negative impressions and dangerous situations.

And perfect timing --- wrestling is comming on tv :D :D :D

[Tall Shadow]

I'm going to have to {Snip} large parts of this in order to make it (A.) Fit, and (B.) be readable.

So here goes...

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
I don't think I've shot myself in the foot so to speak --- I'm mearly saying things that you guys don't agree with. There's a difference between ignorance and difference of opinion and I haven't crossed the line yet.

As I stated before, you have been projecting actions of people that are contrary to everything that they have done before. Saying that now, that they are in power, they will suddenly Not do everything that they have been saying they will, by pushing agendas, laws, and their long standing objectives forward. It's not a tenable position you are taking. There is no basis for your conclusions. No sustaining evidence to support your statements.
I'd call that "Shooting yourself in the foot." wouldn't you?

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
We have to understand that we have a democracy because we were ready for one. The middle east still functions best (based on their history) as religion states. WE all may be in the year 2006 but that doesn't mean that the world has caught up to eachother with morals, government, technology, etc.

Now you are projecting your moral standards on to other cultures.

Man, by nature belongs free. Anything other than Freedom is just unnatural/wrong....Whatever the form of government he is under.
Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
Do I have socialist tendancies? Perhaps some. Perhaps alot. I definatly don't think it's fair to compare me to the thoughts of the former USSR, Cuba, and North Korea. I don't want to enter into this discussion as it's off topic but it's also not fair to compare these failed communists nations to the "ideal" (if you will) of socialism. You have to remember, no where in modern history was socialism actually given a fair chance --- just dictators ruling. I'm not saying we should be socialists - I'm not saying that at all. I just wanted to point out that socialism isn't a failed concept because it was really never tried in the sense.

Not given a "Fair"chance?
France is socialist.... Guess who's having ROP(Religion of Peace) troubles?

If everything was perfect, in a perfect world, Communism would be a perfect form of government.

BUT IT CAN NEVER BE!

Any system, run by man, with man in the equation, can not be a perfect system...Man is flawed. The world is flawed...

George Orwell said....
"Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely!"

This is why our system is divided in to 3 branches. No one person controls everything. And the shining triumph of Our system, a Representative Republic is.....
US!
WE, hold the absolute power. We are guaranteed this by the restrictions placed on The Government by Our constitution.

The 2nd amendment isn't about Duck hunting....It's about the power to be able to resist or destroy a tyrannical government, so that no one will ever be able to do what the kings/Queens of Europe did, to Us ever again.

Look at the foolishness you just wrote below....
Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
A final note on gun control - in particular the assult weapons. When you were in grade school you got punished for other kids dicking around. Well, people are dicking around with guns Firearms serve 4 purposes
1. self defence
2. hunting
3. recreation
4. competition
Somwhere #1 and #3 got out of control. We have to put it back into control. Is gun control the answer? Probably not
Is no gun control the answer? Probably not
There has to be sensible gun laws to protect everyone - both people trying to mind their own business as well as protect from one's self.
You are missing a little of the Founding Father's intent there PBR!

I was a FFL(That's a Federal Fire Arms Dealer) before it became a minefield in the 1990's. Trust me when I say that the20,000+ Gun Laws we already have, are plenty...hence the other point that I've been trying to make you understand...OK, 1 More Time......Say it with me now!.....
"You can NOT legislate morality!" Only honest people obey the law(s), Criminals by definition..DO NOT!....You could pass 20,000 more laws & guess what? They STILL won't obey them!

Starting to get the picture yet?

"Gun control" isn't about the guns, It's about the Control!
Anyone why tells you different is LYING TO YOU SUNSHINE!

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
I do not think assult weapons and semi-pistols are of themselves bad. There are responcible people out there using them. There's also a bunch of people who have no business doing so.
Is this a good reason for wanting gun control --- that too many people are behaving like idiots --- I definatly think it is and I have a hunch many gun owners do as well. The future success to the gun industry is a respect for the sport and not creating negative impressions and dangerous situations.

So We should ban hammers and other blunt objects because they are used in a vast majority of homicides?

Is it not the person, with the intent...and not the inanimate object that should be the focus of your objections?

Or should we remove all modes of transportation? These kill, Mame and injure millions each year, in even the most civil of countries? Far more that any violent crime(s).

We need to fix out social situation, there in lyes your problem.
Restricting one of our inalienable rights, is not an option.

Tall Shadow

[Purebred Redneck]

This is my last post on the matter as I've said eveything I wanted to as clearly as I was going to get it. No one seems to want to have a serouis objective discussion on issues, but instead a play on words. Members and I have had some very good discussions on politics here over the last 6 years, but this thread isn't going to be one of them.

Now you are projecting your moral standards on to other cultures.
Man, by nature belongs free. Anything other than Freedom is just unnatural/wrong....Whatever the form of government he is under.
Now you are projecting your moral standards on to other cultures.
:o :o :o


Look at the foolishness you just wrote below.... [...]
Starting to get the picture yet?
No...
:confused:


As I stated before, you have been projecting actions of people that are contrary to everything that they have done before. Saying that now, that they are in power, they will suddenly Not do everything that they have been saying they will, by pushing agendas, laws, and their long standing objectives forward. It's not a tenable position you are taking. There is no basis for your conclusions. No sustaining evidence to support your statements.
I'd call that "Shooting yourself in the foot." wouldn't you?


No, not at all.
I hated Ronald, Bush, and W with a passion but over the last quarter century I can not say these republicans actually changed my life for the better or for the worse. We roll with the punches.
You hated Clinton and you may hate the next clinton --- if that happens, is 16 years of Clinton going to change your life much? No
We all freak out on politics too much. We all need to chill and not get so worked up.


Thank you for a lively civil debate. I hope those that read this thread look at everything posted objectively and for what it is.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
This is my last post on the matter as I've said eveything I wanted to as clearly as I was going to get it. No one seems to want to have a serouis objective discussion on issues, but instead a play on words. Members and I have had some very good discussions on politics here over the last 6 years, but this thread isn't going to be one of them.

I was trying to have a debate on the issues. I was stating My position, and why My position was correct (IE: Why I thought, what I thought.) And why what your stated position was not correct, and the reasoning behind my position.

Did I miss something in debate class? :confused:

Or Were we just "Playing" on debating?


Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
Now you are projecting your moral standards on to other cultures.
:o :o :o

I can't argue with that... :confused: whatever "That" was.....



Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
No...
:confused:

Let me say it as S-L-O-W-L-Y and as plainly as I know how to then.

I not only think your position on these subjects is incorrect, I have given documentation, and the reasons to show it is.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
No, not at all.
I hated Ronald, Bush, and W with a passion but over the last quarter century I can not say these republicans actually changed my life for the better or for the worse. We roll with the punches.
You hated Clinton and you may hate the next clinton --- if that happens, is 16 years of Clinton going to change your life much? No
We all freak out on politics too much. We all need to chill and not get so worked up.

I have never said I "Hated" the Clintons. I disliked their policies, their methods, and thought that they did some very traitorous things. But I think that about many politicians.

We ->should<- care about what goes on in the internal politics of Our country!, One way or the Other it WILL effect us and Our children.

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck
Thank you for a lively civil debate. I hope those that read this thread look at everything posted objectively and for what it is.

What Debate? :confused:

(I was going to go on with this.....But Why?!? They never will actually debate any issue.... )



Whatever......

Tall Shadow

[Andy L]

Tall Shadow, everything I was going to say while reading PBRs response, you said. Good posts.

I will say that PBRs final post is typical of liberals. Their ideas dont hold water so they must retreat or point fingers after the same old ideas are shot down, one after the other.

However, I must say I did enjoy finally hearing a fresh liberal view on gun control. That is the very first time I have ever heard a liberal say they didnt want the guns out of the hands of the gangs but wanted people to quit shooting up old washing machines and refrigerators. :D Maybe Pelosi and Feinstein can hire PBR to help make the new laws coming down the pipe.

If your having trouble with kids at the range acting up, thats the range and law enforcements problem for not dealing with it. Shame on them. I get annoyed at the range I go to all the time. Normally by quirky things that other members do but thats a personal problem.

Gun laws are not going to save lives. They are not going to stop violence. And they are not going to save washing machines. They are just going to screw with law abiding citizens. You never did get the strong message Tall Shadow was trying to send. Your a social studies teacher. You of all people should know there is a fifth reason, number one actually. So the people can maintain a well armed malitia to guarantee we will never be ruled by tyrants again. Dont forget the Constitution.

[GoodOlBoy]

I was planning on staying out of this one but after the last PBR comment I cannot. At NO TIME, let me repeat this AT NO TIME, can you EVER have "1. self defence " "out of control". Never not once. NO It CANNOT and WILL not happen. You CANNOT protect yourself enough, you CANNOT protect your family enough, you CANNOT protect your friends enough. All you can do is TRY to protect them. Comming from somebody who works for a police department let me tell you it does not happen. I have seen far to many people who just stood there and took it (from rape to robbery to murder) because somebody ELSE was going to come along and defend them. People who knew martial arts, one woman who had a freakin stun gun on her! She let it happen because you are not supposed to carry a stun gun on campus and she didn't want to get in trouble by defending herself!

People getting punished in elementary school shouldn't have a damned thing to do with adults in real life! I quit a job once upon a time because I had to raise my hand and ask permission to go take a leak or I would get written up! I AM NOT A CHILD! I don't NEED nor WANT your protection, permission, or sympathy! Your's OR the liberals in this country. What do I want? I want to be left alone. I hunt, fish, and work to provide for my family. I go to church, and I go to town to shop. I don't need you to serial number my chickens. I don't need you to inspect every catch or game I harvest. I don't need you to protect me, tax me, coddle me, tell me how great OR sorry I am or anything else. I am not affecting you or yours and I SHOULD NOT BE TREATED LIKE A CRIMINAL FOR IT!

This country has SO gotten into the idea that we most monitor everything that everybody does that people have accepted this as normal. Normal! Why should I register a prepaid cell phone? I ALREADY paid for it. You won't have to send a collector to come get money. WHY should I have to register a vehicle I paid for with cash? Or a gun I paid for with cash? What next? Should I register my boots in case i decide to kick the living crap outa some turd who decides he wants to try to rob me? Maybe I should register my hands and feet since I practice martial arts. Maybe I should be in a national database of potential rapists since I am a man! After all I have the equipment right? RIGHT?!

I choose every day who I am and what I do. I CHOOSE to be the good old boy that everybody can count on. I CHOOSE to protect my family, my friends, my neighbors, my coworkers, and strangers! Criminals CHOOSE to be criminals and I who CHOOSES not to be am punished for it because to punish them instead the liberals in this country would have to admit and understand that there are people who have no morals, who have no character, who have no respect who will do what they want when they want to do it.

I have a warming for liberlas everywhere. There are alot more of me than there are of you. Back off.

End of rant.

GoodOlBoy

[Tall Shadow]

+1,000,000 GoodOlBoy!!!

Why is this so hard to understand for these people?


I just don't get it.

I'm beginning to think we really DO need to separate areas/sections of this country, in to Them, & Us.

Sad days my friends. :(

Tall Shadow

[skeet]

Uhhh!!! Hey ...uuuhhhh GOB....why don't ya tell us how ya really feel??!! Right on bud. The points you make are the very things the socialists(PBR is not a socialist) and communists(he is closer to this) don't want people to have. They do want control of things..everything in fact. As someone stated.... in a PERFECT world communism would probably be the perfect government. Everyone would have the same things...make the same money ...have the same problems and so on. I personally would not want to live in that world....and I can certainly tell you wouldn't either. This is NOT a perfect world...and it will never be as long as people run it. Read Orwell's Animal Farm to see what I mean. It is a classic dissertation on an imperfect world.
Personal responsibility is what is lacking in the world now. No one wants to be responsible for their actions. Criminals can't be responsible...it was their (insert your favorite liberal excuse here). It seems the liberal media only want the conservative legislators or politicians to be responsible for what THEY(the media) perceive to be wrong. Bring a liberal politician to task for something?? Oh no....no need to in their estimation..... And like most of the liberal people in this country...when their ideas and programs are shown to be morally, ethically or politically bankrupt...PBR is cutting and running. But understand this...his type of liberals in this country want exactly what he says they don't...CONTROL over your and my and everyone's lives. Maybe he doesn't even realize it himself(hard to believe). But realize also, that the very same people who want this control over our lives also don't want the sheep in the flock to realize what is going on...until it is too late. Maybe he truly is a sheep...certainly his eyes and mind are closed to reality

[Andy L]

Bravo GOB!!!

Well said, to say the least!!

Nothing pisses me off more than people prying into my life. I go to buy a gun, a long gun, and they want my info. Ok, I can deal with that. Take my SSN and run me to see if I am a convicted felon. But thats it. It pisses me off that they need the type of weapon and serial number. They say they throw it out after the transaction. Yeah right!! Theres no list so they can come door to door when Pelosi gets her way to pick them up. :rolleyes:

If everyone had yours, and my, attitudes, GOB, the world would be a better place, no doubt. I think most folks on here agree. I dont want your social security, dont need you watching me every moment to protect me, dont need your help, dont need your welfare programs Uncle Sam, just let me be and Ill take care of me, mine and anyone else around me. I promise.

Until I prove Im a bad person that cant be trusted, leave me the hell alone.

PBR said another thing that really gets my goat. Protecting me from myself. Since when do I need protection from myself? Thats total BS. One of the laws that really torques me is seatbelts. I can see it for kids, some people just arent intelligent enough to take care of their kids, but I dont need that, thank you. No matter what excuse, it all boils down to insurance companies attornys. Thats the only reason for seatbelt laws. If I wanna crash my car and kill myself, whys that your business?

As for socialism PBR, just be glad you live in a democracy, that should still be a republic, that allows you to say those things. If you want to live as a socialist, feel free to leave at any time and dont let the door hit you in the ass.

[Duffy]

Don't hold back, GOB!

Thanks for the rant. No one could say it better.

[Aim to maim]

PBR makes no bones about his leanings toward socialism and gun control. It seems probable that he would point to England as a fine example and model for the U.S. to follow.

The British newspaper story from last week pasted below gives an excellent idea of how far things can go. I've checked out the source and the story is not a right-wing gun nut paranoid internet hoax. In fact, it would be difficult to make something like this up. I wonder if even PBR really wants things to go this far. It CAN happen here.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/walthamforest/walthamforestnews/display.var.1013959.0.bullet_found_in_doorway.php


Bullet found in doorway

By David Williams

LETHAL: The .22 calibre bullet found in Walthamstow High Street on a market day morning (D6W1001)

LIVE ammunition has been found lying in the doorway of a busy high street shop.

The .22 calibre short round bullet was found at the entrance of the 99p Stores in Walthamstow High Street on Wednesday morning, November 1.

Haroon Khan, who has a firearms licence and is a member of a local gun club, was alarmed to discover live ammunition in a Walthamstow doorway.

The bullet, of Swiss origin, was still in its brass casing, complete with enough gunpowder for it to fire itself.

continued...
Mr Khan said that if it had been struck hard enough or exposed to heat it could have gone off.

"This sort of thing should not be lying around. It was live, primed and active," he said. "But rather me pick it up than a little kid.

"How can you feel safe when you are finding things like this on the street?

"To get hold of one of these is not easy. You have to go through a scrutinised search, you need a licence and you have to belong to a club."

Ammunition of this kind would ordinarily be used in a small handgun or pistol, and both can be owned legally under licence.

But to leave strictly controlled goods out in the street would be enough for a firearms licence to be revoked.

The bullet has been examined at a Metropolitan Police laboratory and details about it kept for future reference.

A police spokesman said: "Recovering firearms and ammunition is a priority for the police. We take the same view of ammunition as we do of a gun.

"If it goes bang, it is still lethal."

Police are treating the unattended ammunition as a crime. Mr Khan alerted them at 10.16am, and they arrived at his shop to pick up the bullet at 11.32am.

7:00pm Thursday 9th November 2006

[Tall Shadow]

Yes, England is a strange place these days. With the "Muslim Youth" trouble, The huge influx of illegal weapons, and their own socialists pushing for More!, More!, More! in the way of taxes, restrictions, and new laws for intrusions in to everyones lives..... I am glad I'm not British these days......

I try to show people how much Our own socialists are trying to make us like them. Many of the "sheep" just don't get it yet.

Tall Shadow

[Str8shooter]

.........uh huh

think I'll have a beer.


me

[shooterjon]

I hear all the libs are in Iraq cauce day dont have no good edcation!:o