AR-15s for hunting? [Archive]

M.T. Pockets

02-22-2007, 05:10 PM

These "Assault" & "Terrorist" rifles that make Zumbo puke are very popular amongst my hunting friends. In fact, I'm about the only guy in my group of friends that does not own one.

They gained popularity when some of my buddies learned they could shoot them nearly as accurate as stock factory bolt rifles in field conditions hunting fox & coyotes. Now they take them prairie dog hunting and say they wouldn't go back to a bolt. They do some trigger work on them, and invest in high end optics and they really love those rifles.

I'm not much of a fox & coyote hunter myself, but if I were, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one and use it.

If I were a rancher in the Dakotas, Montana or Wyoming I'd have one for sure, and I wouldn't care if Zumbo thought less of me or not.

At a small village air strip in Alaska a few years ago I ran into a young native man who carried one in a scabbord on his ATV. He said it was popular among the natives since ammunition was cheap and available, they were handy all around rifles, kind of like a .22 in the lower 48. He said they used it for everything up to caribou.

I'm just a nobody in the middle of nowhere that likes to hunt, and I've run into all kinds of people that hunt with them. Zumbo is supposed to be a world traveling expert and didn't know they were used at all. He's lost credibility with me for his lack of knowlege as much as for his opinion.

fabsroman

02-22-2007, 06:02 PM

All that big wig would have needed to do is follow a board like this to figure out what is going on in the world of hunting and shooting. I didn't do much of either this past year, but I have kept up with everything by visiting this board. Thanks to everybody that posts on here. I guess Mr. Zumbo was just too busy blogging about assault rifles and putting his head where the sun don't shine, that he didn't have time to read about this great sport that he was making a living off of.

I don't hunt with these rifles, but that is because I do not own them yet. I want to get an AR-10 in .300 RSAUM and/or the standard .308 for whitetails and other big game, and I want a AR-15 in .223 and/or .260 for small game/varmints. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with this type of rifle, and would actually have a fun time doing it. I couldn't imagine a prairie dog hunt with one of them. That would have to be a ton of fun.

Sad thing is they are trying to pass a bill in Maryland to outlaw them. Supposedly, they are cop killers, and that really pisses me off because I don't think any LEO's have been killed with them in this state that I can ever recall. What even makes me sicker about it is that I just got a new client that is seeking a protective order from the Court because her LEO ex-husband, among other things, put a gun to her and her child's head at one point and is now under investigation on several different fronts (e.g., criminal and Internal Affairs). Who is going to protect us from the bad police officers if we don't have firearms. Heck, who is going to protect me from the 300 lb linebacker looking dude that breaks into my house, armed or unarmed, he would kick me all over the place if I don't have a weapon.

It starts with the assualt rifles and handguns and works its way down to everything. I would have said except the pellet gun, but that thing does in excess of 1,000 fps and could kill somebody if used correctly. I read the article about how .50 BMG's are weapons of mass destruction, and I just had to laugh at the use of that phrase. Just because they have some serious firepower doesn't put them in the same category as nukes, dirty bombs, and chemical agents, but I guess anything other than a pen is considered a weapon of mass destruction. When you stop and think about it, I am willing to bet that pens, now computers, have caused more problems than 50 BMG rifles. I would love to know the statistics of crimes committed in this entire nation with a 50 BMG just last year, or better yet, over the last decade. Same goes for the AR's. As you can tell, this subject has me pretty fired up and I don't even own one of these rifles yet. I am so fired up that I am contemplating a move to Virginia if this law gets passed, and I used to be completely anti virginia for a place to live.

Skinny Shooter

02-22-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by skeet
Hey Skinny, Could I use my 11-87 Remington to hunt pheasants or rabbits? I know ya can't use a semi auto for deer etc.

Yep. I've had my eye on an 11-87 Supermag thumbhole turkey gun this winter. :p :cool:

MtnMike2

02-23-2007, 01:41 PM

Thanks for all the good replies! I think I'll look into shooting some coyotes w/ my Bushmaster in the near future.

Andy L

02-23-2007, 01:50 PM

I have every intention of owning a AR of some sort, an FN 5.7x28 and a Barrett 50BMG by the end of the year.

I want em. I better get em before Pelosi disallows it. And Im going to hunt with two of the three. The FN,maybe, but probably just targets.

Better get em now.

skeet

02-23-2007, 02:38 PM

Think twice about the Supermag. Have a lot of trouble with that one. If they make it in 3" get that one.(I think they do):D

Catfish

02-24-2007, 05:49 AM

I have never carried an AR hunting yet. But in abt. an hour I will for the first time. We are going to be running coyotes with dogs and I just can`t through enough lead with a bolts gun. I`ll be useing 50 gr. Serria Blitz bullets so that there is no chance of a ricochet. I know there alittle lite for coyote, but I figure if I can get one or 2 in the coyote the dogs can do the rest.

Skinny Shooter

02-24-2007, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by skeet
Think twice about the Supermag. Have a lot of trouble with that one. If they make it in 3" get that one.(I think they do):D
Copy!
May put that cash into a Mk 4 leupold instead.

skeet

02-24-2007, 10:06 AM

Them Mark 4's are really expensive...even wholesale

Craig 522

02-24-2007, 06:21 PM

Zumbo is so full of himself thinking he is an expert. All he ever does is go on freebie hunts that others provide for the exposure and advertising he brings. He thinks if you don't hunt with a TC single shot, you are not an ethical hunter.

I am glad all of his sponsors tossed him out. Remington, Gerber, Outdoor Channel, Hi Country Seasonings, NRA, and Cabelas to name a few. Not sure about Thompson Center though. Hopefully they won't puss out and keep him. No reason to keep him if he isn't a viable salesman of their products.

Last October, 4 of us went to western OK on a prairie dog hunt. We all took AR15s, 10/22 Rugers, and .17 M2 rifles. I never fired a shot out of my 10/22 but did shoot a couple of dogs with my 22/45 pistol. I also shot several with my Marlin .17M2. But the majority went down with the AR15. Because it was the most fun is why...........

I used a 1/8 twist OLympic Ultra Match 20" barrel flattop upper with a 6x24x50 Simmons on it. My lower is a Colt with JP internals and I used my 55gr SP handload. In two days, I shot around 450 rounds just out of the AR. It is extremely accurate.

I have also shot Coyotes with my AR15, and deer with my M1A and L1A1 308s.

I use a Remington 700 in 300 WM for deer and elk but I am seriously looking at a DPMS 308 to use for deer when in my blind.

There is nothing wrong with using semi autos for hunting. They can be extremely accurate and reliable.

Zumbo just showed his true colors and got castrated as a result.

Riposte1

02-27-2007, 10:52 AM

I have not ever been a huge AR fan (speaking of personal preference here, I am willing to go to war to prevent someone from taking yours!).

Even so, I spent a summer back in the early 80s hunting woodchucks with a cobbled up "CAR" (11" barrel, fake moderator welded on) using a handle mounted 4X scope. Naturally, the stalk became a bit more important than with my normal Woodchuck guns but I dont recall missing any woodchucks.

I actually thought about cutting off the handle and having someone weld on a Weaver scope base (this was before "flat tops" but some folks were doing it. I think Brownells even had a base to fit).

Naturally, prophet that I am, I traded that gun off while it was still only worth about $250...soon therafter you could not beg borrow or steal and AR.

Later, when I started training military folks, I got back into them and I have used them for varmint and deer hunting (mostly to test bullets) in 5.56 and 6.8 SPC.

ARs can be made accurate in the extreme. They can have a good trigger. I see no reason they would not make good hunting rifles...but they will never have the class of a Pre-64 Wincester M-70 :)

BTW, I understand them a bit more now - I will be out zeroing one (a Bushmaster fluted H-Bar 16") as soon as the fog lifts around here. Its main mission will be coyotes on our training site.

Riposte

Don Fischer

02-27-2007, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Catfish
I have never carried an AR hunting yet. But in abt. an hour I will for the first time. We are going to be running coyotes with dogs and I just can`t through enough lead with a bolts gun. I`ll be useing 50 gr. Serria Blitz bullets so that there is no chance of a ricochet. I know there alittle lite for coyote, but I figure if I can get one or 2 in the coyote the dogs can do the rest.

Sorry to tell you this Catfish,,,no I'm not! But your post is exactly what turns guy's off on auto loading rifle's, that's what the AR-15 is.

"Can't through (throw) enough lead with my bolts (bolt) gun".

".....but I figure if I can get one or 2 in the coyote........."

Your are talking spray and pray here. That's a turn off for some of us.

Skinny Shooter

02-27-2007, 05:18 PM

Hi Don, Catfish may have worded it that way, but I don't think he meant to communicate exactly that.
He's not that type from what I've read about him over the years here on HC.
That's part of the problem with the Net, we sometimes come off a bit differently than we mean too.
Allen

skeet

02-27-2007, 06:20 PM

Not only that but have ya ever shot a fox or a coyote in front of hounds?? They really don't stay still long enough for one standing shot. Shot a yote(walking) the other day with my Bushmaster varminter...one of 6 or 7. Unluckily the others got over a little hill before I could get a second shot. They go from zero to just over mach 1 in a little over 1 second. At least here they do. A semi auto is sometimes the only way to go. Sorry ya don't like 'em.:D

BTW I shoot yotes because they like to eat the new born calves just as they are being born...which is going on now. Bounty on 'em too!!:cool:

Don Fischer

02-27-2007, 06:38 PM

I'll sure give catfish the benefit of the doubt. But I just keep getting the feeling we all need to clean up our act a bit reguarding what we say on the internet. Look what happened to Zumbo! If he had said the same thing at a dinner party, no one would have made the same deal out of it.

The only dog hunting for coyote's I've ever seen has been dog's used like trolling dogs to bring in the coyote's and then they were shot with rifles. And yea, I've seen coyote's kick in the afterburnner's, impressive!

skeet

02-27-2007, 07:11 PM

Usually the afterburner part is that is where the bullet went when I shot after they started running. They call them dogs tolling dogs. What you do is go see aunt Nellie and borrow the anklebiter she has. Tell her you'll bring little Fluffy back and then use that useless little anklebiting POS for bait. Coyotes really like kitty cats and little ankle biting dogs. Don't see many little ankle biters around where I live!!:D :D You do see LOTS of coyotes though!:D

Also I really believe we need to stop apologizing for doing what we do. I'm not saying we shouldn't use a little restraint in public or whatever. But just because we like semiautos or even full autos we shouldn't have to apologize for wanting to shoot...fast or slow!

fabsroman

02-28-2007, 03:48 AM

Honestly, I didn't read Catfish's post in that manner. I figured that he would need a lot of ammo just in case there were a lot of coyotes to shoot at the same time, or he needed more than one hit to dispatch the coyote. I didn't quite take it as spray and pray. Kind of the same reason why I started using an auto shotgun over a pump while waterfowling. I found that the pump made it much harder for me to make a second/follow up shot on a wounded bird or a second bird. The o/e worked better than the pump too, but it only holds 2 shells.

Andy L

02-28-2007, 08:50 AM

I read Catfishes post as a spray and pray. I found it amusing.

Catfish used to shoot a 17 Rem, alot, if I remember correctly. He was one of the first here to tout the 204 Ruger. I believe I recall several posts touting Foxpro. I also remember several posts giving "advice" on calling coyotes and the virtues of small, fast bullets for mimimal fur damage. You would have thought the guy was a seasoned vet.

On another thread recently, he told a guy a 204 wasnt enough for a coyote. He almost mimiced this post about needing more gun and more shots for runnin shots from in front of hounds. That sounds like pray and spray to me. It also sounds like someone who didnt have much luck calling and maybe didnt have as much experience as he told the guys he was giving advice too. Now its on to dog runnin.

Catfish, Im not slamming you. I just got a chuckle out of it and stating some facts, or at least what I have seen and interpreted. Do what you like, but I was caught way off gaurd.

Fabs, I know my grammer and punctuation wasnt very good here either. Either dont read my posts or get used to it.

skeet

02-28-2007, 07:56 PM

Wish ya hadn't put that only two shots thing in there...well I just gotta say it.

Fabs with the way ya shoot 2 shots ain't enough!!:D :D :eek:

Well I had to say it even if it ain't true. He just left himself wide open for that....and I hadda say it. Actually Fabs is a pretty good shot. I saw him miss a g hog at a LOOONNNNGGG ways out there. Even if he didn't kill him he probably scared him to death it was so close....and he is a pretty good shotgun shooter too...BUT his dad may be better!!hehehe Hey Fabs thanks for the info on Vonage.

Andy I really didn't read a spray and pray thing in that post either. If ya don't like semiautos ...well just don't shoot 'em. I do happen to like 'em.:D :cool: Shooting a coyote in front of hounds has got to be a lot of fun. Foxes that way are really fun!!:)

fabsroman

02-28-2007, 08:44 PM

Andy,

Just use correct grammar when you are insulting me, that is all I ask. I will do the same.

Skeet,

Andy is probably taking his position just because mine supports Catfish. Maybe he is trying to see how good of an attorney I am.

Personally, I don't let waterfowl land in the decoys and prefer to shoot them while they are flying for the sport/challenge of it. Does that make me a poor hunter? Should I be required to shoot them only when they land in the decoys?

On deer, I have a policy of not shooting at them while running and waiting for the perfect broadside shot. However, that doesn't happen all the time. For instance, I was hunting whitetails with a 70 year old friend of mine and he insisted on walking through the woods and staulking. Well, we came upon a group of 10 that had been hiding behind a thicket about 20 yards from us. They started running and I shot the closest one to us with my slug gun. She went down instantly and didn't move a bit. That has been my one exception to the no shooting while running bit.

Do I fault other hunters that want to shoot at a deer while it is moving, nope. If we want to, we can find faults with everybody on here. Some are "weaker than others". Others are poorer spellers. Others are poorer shooters. Others are poorer callers. Others are poorer staulkers. Others are poorer people. I think you get my point. Now, as a community, that is going to get us real far. Keep it up Andy, I am sure you are gaining tons of friends.

Also, I haven't read any of these posts that you refer to from recollection, so I have no idea if they are a figment of your imagination or if Catfish actually posted such things. Also, since you and I got completely different meanings from Catfish's post in this thread, I would only think that you and I would get different meanings from Catfish's other posts. Me, I tend to see the good and don't criticize until I am 100% positive that it is just. You tend to see the bad and criticize at will, like the post about me being weak. Then again, I did give you some criticism about your son and the security guard thread. Hope the "weak" comment doesn't stem from that thread. By the way, how did that entire thing go? On second thought, maybe you shouldn't tell me because it would be a waste of your typing because I probably wouldn't believe it anyway at this point. After your, or is that you're, "weak" comment about me, I really don't think you have much credibility with me, just as you stated I don't have any with you because of my posts in that thread, which I might add were not initially aimed at you. I would have to say you fired first at me in that thread, and even decided to get a little dig in here on this one.

skeet

02-28-2007, 11:49 PM

Land in the decoys??? The only ones that get to land in my decoys is if there is one or two in front of a group coming in. Let them land and take the ones that are committed to land. By the time ya get done shooting at the group you be all outta shells and the ones on the ground get up and leave...unless you is a quick loader...and I is a quick loader.

Fabs as far as shooting deer on the move..well I can give somebody a ton of ammo if they want. For a slug gun I used an 1100 or an 11-87 semiauto. Usually with scope(on a stand) and just a normal 1100 skeet gun while walking or as you called it stalking. I mainly used an 1100 or 11-87 cause with the ol slugs they didn't kick as much...but also cause I was comfortable with them. They fit. I once jumped 5 deer on the edge of a little swamp. They ran across the field to another woods..shot and killed all 5 before they got 70 yds..so it wasn't spray and pray. I really did know what I was doing and so do an awful lot of semi auto coyote and prairie dog shooters. BTW before I get dissed all over the board. What I did was entirely legal. I was actually shooting on a crop damage permit...but I had a guy with me that REALLY needed the meat. It was also an awsome experience. I had never been able to shoot more than 3 at any one time before. After guiding for more than 30 yrs for waterfowl and deer..I found the better shots and hunters used semi autos. There were some great pump gun shooters too but way more good semiauto shooters. The ones that were usually pretty poor shooters were the ones who came out with their pretty Over/unders. Not all now but most! They wanted to give those ducks or geese a sporting chance ya see! Just my observation you understand!?The best shooter I ever had in a blind(other than me) was a lady..a young one of about 20-21 yrs. In 3 days of hunting she shot 9 geese with nine shots and all were bang flops. Course part of her shooting so good was my calling ability. Got 'em right in there ya know?:D :D

fabsroman

03-01-2007, 12:33 AM

Not to upstage you, but more to share the burden of any heat you might get from shooting 5 deer at once, I killed 8 does within an hour one morning and decided to stop at that because it was going to take me all day to haul them out, and it did. I thought I was going to die myself. That was also on a crop damage permit right next to some park land. We donated all the meat to a soup kitchen, and I am sure you know about the program since you have lived in Maryland so long.

Andy L

03-01-2007, 06:43 AM

"I have every intention of owning a AR of some sort, an FN 5.7x28 and a Barrett 50BMG by the end of the year. "

Thats a quote of mine from earlier in the thread. Does that sound like I got a damned thing against semi autos?

"I just can`t through enough lead with a bolts gun. I`ll be useing 50 gr. Serria Blitz bullets so that there is no chance of a ricochet. I know there alittle lite for coyote, but I figure if I can get one or 2 in the coyote the dogs can do the rest."

That is Catfishs post. That doesnt sound like spray and pray? Cant get enough lead in the air with a bolt? Just gotta get a couple pieces of lead in a coyote so the dogs can get it? No concern for accurate shooting or clean kills? Sounds like spray and pray to me. Sounds exactly what Zumbos new buddies would like to hear from more shooters, I wont call this hunting.

Black guns are great for all sorts of hunting. You dont have to have them for lots of lead in the air. They are exteremly accurate, light, fast handling and reliable. I think they would be fantastic for all types of hunting. Stupid remarks like the one above will do nothing but feed the fire against us.

Fabs, I dont care how good of a lawyer you are. From the looks of things, I pretty much pissed everyone off by tellin you what I think. I have never insulted you. Always respected you until now. But I never knew your true thoughts about guns. Being ready to roll over and piss on yourself if everyone promises to play nicey nice is total crap.

Skeet, the houndwagons are enjoyed by some. Just be sure to check your state laws. Its nothing but glorified road hunting, only your listening and watching for hounds that may or may not be on property they are wanted on. Lots of out the window and over the hood shooting. Not my cup of tea, actually I turn em in everytime I get a chance. I know too many people that dont like them and they use the clause about dogs not knowing boundry lines as an excuse to trespass. Usually a bunch of toothless inbreds. Anyone that hunts around them much usually has a story about a hunt being ruined by a pack of hounds coming thru while on a tree stand, calling stand, ect....

Ill stay off your thread boys. Just stating some facts.

skeet

03-01-2007, 09:51 AM

Hounds don't know where they are. The people I hunted with really weren't a bunch of toothless inbreds and I NEVER saw shooting from or across a truck. Don't know what your problem is but the sentiments you have posted in this thread are somewhat devisive among hunters or shooters or whatever. Personally I don't care what kind of rifle or shotgun anyone uses. I also don't go around telling anyone that their sport is illegal immoral or illegitimate. I like to hunt rabbits with dogs. Ya ever done that? You pretty much say that any dog hunting is wrong. Coyotes with dogs is not much different. Hope ya get a 50BMG. As stated in a lot of places..what ya gonna use it for?? But I want one too. Luckily here in Wyoming there are enough places to use it. Saw a 5.7 a month or so ago and got to shoot it. Tiny little bullet and it really gets out there. Not much recoil. ARs are just a fun gun to shoot and a lot of fun to make accurate. There are books of info on that. But just cause ya have a semi doesn't mean everybody does the spray and pray. Lighten up and get back to posting. Ain't nobody saying what ya feel is wrong..just telling ya that everything you may think may not be completely right. C'mon man.. you do fit in. Hell...I even fit in here most of the time!:D

Ridge Runner

03-02-2007, 05:59 AM

I own and hunt with AR's of various calibers, everything from varmints to bear. As a right hand/left eye dominant hunter, when they can build a LH bolt gun that for less than 900 bucks, will group 1/2 moa or less, I'll think about using them, until then I'll keep my AR's.
Have any of you read the stance that the gun control crowd has taken?
They're list of guns to ban is pretty extensive, here's my interpretation of it
22 LR, its small enough in diameter to slip between the seams in police body armour
all handguns, too easily concealed
all shotguns, too much probability of a lethal hit at close range
30/30 win., 3 times since its introduction (1n 1892) its been used to kill a police officer wearing body armour
all sniper rifles (any rifle with a telescpopic sight which enables you to hit a target at 100 meters or more)
any rifle capable of penetrating soft body armour (this is any centerfire that is suitable for med range varmint hunting or any big game rifle)
the 50 BMG (can derail train cars, penetrate vehicles, and disrupt electrical substations)
Get off your cans guys, if they get theyre way we'll have the 32/20, the 25/20, and the 44/40 loaded to blkpwdr pressures, we need to put the anti's in they're place.
RR

Lilred

03-03-2007, 06:43 AM

I'm only gonna post on this here thread to clear up some misunderstandins bout dog huntin game...esp when it comes to deer. There are ALOT of uneducated guesses when it comes to that subject....and not just by Andy either...but by thousands of hunters.
Maybe it dont belong here...but i'll say it here anyway.
You do not hunt on or in a truck. I dont know about other states, but in VA is IS legal for you to retrive your dog on posted property as long as you dont carry a gun, you dont drive a vehicle on the property and you should ask the landowner. We all do that...most we already know.
Dogs do not catch deer...that is retarded. Listen....deer have been huntin by hounds for HUNDREDS of years here. They know a thing er two bout dogs....and believe you me...they make monkeys out of most dogs...esp big hounds.
I will make a thread in anything goes is anybody wants to read it, I dont want to switch gears on this thread but so much. I'm sorry you got that impression Andy, ya need to come down next year and let me introduce ya to huntin wih dogs.

moneychanger

03-04-2007, 08:44 PM

a few years back ,we were coming out of the woods and the guy parked next to us had a nice 8 point on the ground.he asked to look at my ruger #1,he said nice but too heavy to be lugging around all day.he then said try this and he produced one of the assault weapons i picked picked it up and said wow, it wieghed about 5lbs with scope. since i have talked to quite a few shooters who use the assault type weapon and they all just love em.

funny thing is they love to shoot just like me,and like to shoot the weapon of their choice just like me.

MtnMike2

03-05-2007, 01:48 PM

Well, one thing that has really come out on this thread is that different hunters use different methods and / or weapons. But we need to stick together! The anti-hunters will use anything they can find to try to drive a wedge between us. I don't hunt deer w/ dogs, but I'll defend a person's right to. I'm not a trapper, but I'll defend it. The anti's have used "fair chase" to drive opinion. It's now against the law to use hounds to hunt bear in CO, which sounded kinda exciting to me...
Anyway - we must stick together! Hunters unite!

Mike