Lilred
03-03-2007, 08:21 AM
I'm makin this post in relation to a few things...one is the thread about huntin with ar-15's and the zumbo thread.
If you read those threads we were talkin about uneducated guesses....and this is yet another one.
So, I thought I would explain a little (the best I can) about deer huntin with dogs. This applies to anything hunted with hounds as a general rule too. I hope ya'll will go away with a better understandin of it and maybe ya'll can work it into yer huntin plans for next year. I'm even gonna type as right as I can so ya'll can understand me a little better.
The first thing ya'll must understand is the land. Central VA and NC is thick. Mostly filled with small pine. Too small to put a treestand in one and too thick to see even if you did. Once these pine reach maturity...yep it is open...but they are farms essentially. They are sprayed to repel undergrowth after they reach a certain height. Once all the thick undergrowth is gone the deer have little use for the wide open pine. The land is a mix of cutovers, hardwoods, swamps and pine forests with the seldom farm mixed in. With that being said deer use these different landscapes to their advantage once gun season comes in. This leads to the next misconception.
Deer here have been hunted for hundreds of years the same way. So have bear, bobcat and other game chased by hounds. They have adapted!! They double back on tracks, hit the swamps and have all kinds of tricks up their sleeve. The bucks will drop the does and slip to safety while the dogs stay on the track of the does...the list can go on forever. I've heard before "I saw big hounds catch deer when I was huntin." That may be true...but where you are, it has never been legal. Deer aint used to dogs trailing them. They don't understand. They have not adapted to the practice. To be honest, I've never seen it in my life and I frankly find it very hard to believe. Deer run for MILES...not yards. Even a big hound can not keep the pace of a deer for long.
In fact, most people use beagles...so the big hound thing is yet another misconception. Beagles have a better nose for the tricks deer play, they are slower which hurts you in a way but helps you too. Deer not pushed hard will run in circles in their safe haven until the dogs give up. If they do show their face to a hunter, the dogs are usually called off...esp. if it's a doe on buck day. Beagles are easier to handle too and are quicker to listen to commands in the field wether they are runnin or not. If you think that a beagle can catch a deer...you have mental problems. It's that simple.
Catching dogs leads me to my next subject. Huntin with trucks.
Deer drives with dogs are done of thousands of acres. Very seldom are drives done with dogs done on small patches of property. Typically, every truck used has a dog box in it. So, let's pretend that you are gettin ready to run a 1,000 acre patch of cutover. The dog handler takes his truck with the dogs to the drop location. Meanwhile the hunters are dropped off to their stands. Now, these stands are really spread out so there might be several trucks used. (Another misconception: NO they do not stand on roads with the exception of a loggin road that might pass through the property.) The trucks all have dogboxes in them to help catch the dogs and/or call them off if they jump does on a buck day. The driver then takes the dogs and walks or "hikes" the dogs into the patch of land.
Once the dogs jump, the driver must continue the drive by walking and zig-zagging through the entire patch of land until he comes out on the other side. If the dogs and deer slip through the standers (which happens often because they are spread out so far apart) THEN the standers can be picked up and taken ahead of the pack wherever they have gone. (If they are allowed to hunt that land.)
This is where the truck-runnin, CB talkin stuff gets mixed up. This again reinforces the point that more deer get by hunters using dogs than you would think.
This then leads to dogs on other people's property. If a deer crosses the property line, the nearest stander attempts to catch the dogs. If they can't get to them the dogs keep going. Most dogs, esp. beagles will soon realize they are way out of their territory. They will drop the chase and follow their trail back to where they came. Most seasoned dogs know this.
Some dogs will just keep on going. This requires the owner to quickly get in his truck and attempt to get his dogs back.
Here's where the "dogs on posted property" situation comes in.
It is NOT legal for someone to drop dogs on someone else's property. It IS legal to retieve your dogs as long as: you carry no firearm, you cannot use a vehicle or atv and it's alot better if you ask permission first. Most people do. In all honesty, in most situations the dogs will go to a home if they are in a place they've never been. Around these parts, it is common to call hunters when their dogs arrive at your home. The dogs are almost always welcomed with a treat or even let inside. People are very understanding of hunting dogs here and mostly the womenfolk make a bigger deal over the dog than a man would.
All this technical writing don't do it justice. Here's a mental picture for you.
There you are....in the woods along a creek that runs to a river. It's cold, frosty and the squirrels in the riverbottom you're in seems to stay quiet just so you can hear better. Suddenly, off in the distance you hear a deep brawl of a hound break the frost. Then another and another. Soon the faroff baying of hounds in the pines start to filter down to the riverbottom. You have no idea how far the deer is in front of the dogs so you get ready.
Suddenly, you hear leaves crunching under foot. The shotgun comes up only to put your bead on 2 does. That's not what you are looking for.
They trot on heading towards the safety of the river and the swamp on the other side. The dogs are getting closer. Your heart starts pumping faster and the cold is forgotton.
They're coming! You listen and look with every sense at it's highest.
Suddenly you see a twitch on the other sde of the creek. Behind the briars you see horns. A buck! He's standing there...and meanwhile the dogs are coming closer and closer. The buck takes off and hits the river. Man! A big buck too!
Shakin and knowin that somethin else is STILL comin...you get ready again. The dogs are echoing the bottom as loud as a churchbell. Then you realize...they're running that buck!
The dogs hit the river. They are quiet. Just as your heart hits your feet, they cross and away they go again. Around and around they run. You know that buck is way ahead of the dogs..you have to stay ready. Suddenly, the far off splashing of water....could it be? Cracking branches...dear Lord he's running back! And heading straight for you! He's following the creek. Get ready....good Lord here come the dogs too.
One shot and the buck rolls down the hill and hits the creek.
A nice 7pter with a 20" inside spread.
The dogs lick your face and jump all over you....they're proud of you.
That is a true story. I killed that buck in 2000 and have posted his pic here before.
There is nothin in the world like hunting dogs. While there are some arsholes that are illegal and don't "Play by the rules" there are more that are respectable law-abiding hunters than not. But that goes for any state, not just mine.
I hope this helped people understand a little more about a heritage that my Pop taught me and one I plan on passing down to my chidren. I can't think of nothing more fun and more exciting. Not to mention that a loyal, opera-singing, hard working pack of hounds make hunting more enjoyable. For me anyways.
:)
If you read those threads we were talkin about uneducated guesses....and this is yet another one.
So, I thought I would explain a little (the best I can) about deer huntin with dogs. This applies to anything hunted with hounds as a general rule too. I hope ya'll will go away with a better understandin of it and maybe ya'll can work it into yer huntin plans for next year. I'm even gonna type as right as I can so ya'll can understand me a little better.
The first thing ya'll must understand is the land. Central VA and NC is thick. Mostly filled with small pine. Too small to put a treestand in one and too thick to see even if you did. Once these pine reach maturity...yep it is open...but they are farms essentially. They are sprayed to repel undergrowth after they reach a certain height. Once all the thick undergrowth is gone the deer have little use for the wide open pine. The land is a mix of cutovers, hardwoods, swamps and pine forests with the seldom farm mixed in. With that being said deer use these different landscapes to their advantage once gun season comes in. This leads to the next misconception.
Deer here have been hunted for hundreds of years the same way. So have bear, bobcat and other game chased by hounds. They have adapted!! They double back on tracks, hit the swamps and have all kinds of tricks up their sleeve. The bucks will drop the does and slip to safety while the dogs stay on the track of the does...the list can go on forever. I've heard before "I saw big hounds catch deer when I was huntin." That may be true...but where you are, it has never been legal. Deer aint used to dogs trailing them. They don't understand. They have not adapted to the practice. To be honest, I've never seen it in my life and I frankly find it very hard to believe. Deer run for MILES...not yards. Even a big hound can not keep the pace of a deer for long.
In fact, most people use beagles...so the big hound thing is yet another misconception. Beagles have a better nose for the tricks deer play, they are slower which hurts you in a way but helps you too. Deer not pushed hard will run in circles in their safe haven until the dogs give up. If they do show their face to a hunter, the dogs are usually called off...esp. if it's a doe on buck day. Beagles are easier to handle too and are quicker to listen to commands in the field wether they are runnin or not. If you think that a beagle can catch a deer...you have mental problems. It's that simple.
Catching dogs leads me to my next subject. Huntin with trucks.
Deer drives with dogs are done of thousands of acres. Very seldom are drives done with dogs done on small patches of property. Typically, every truck used has a dog box in it. So, let's pretend that you are gettin ready to run a 1,000 acre patch of cutover. The dog handler takes his truck with the dogs to the drop location. Meanwhile the hunters are dropped off to their stands. Now, these stands are really spread out so there might be several trucks used. (Another misconception: NO they do not stand on roads with the exception of a loggin road that might pass through the property.) The trucks all have dogboxes in them to help catch the dogs and/or call them off if they jump does on a buck day. The driver then takes the dogs and walks or "hikes" the dogs into the patch of land.
Once the dogs jump, the driver must continue the drive by walking and zig-zagging through the entire patch of land until he comes out on the other side. If the dogs and deer slip through the standers (which happens often because they are spread out so far apart) THEN the standers can be picked up and taken ahead of the pack wherever they have gone. (If they are allowed to hunt that land.)
This is where the truck-runnin, CB talkin stuff gets mixed up. This again reinforces the point that more deer get by hunters using dogs than you would think.
This then leads to dogs on other people's property. If a deer crosses the property line, the nearest stander attempts to catch the dogs. If they can't get to them the dogs keep going. Most dogs, esp. beagles will soon realize they are way out of their territory. They will drop the chase and follow their trail back to where they came. Most seasoned dogs know this.
Some dogs will just keep on going. This requires the owner to quickly get in his truck and attempt to get his dogs back.
Here's where the "dogs on posted property" situation comes in.
It is NOT legal for someone to drop dogs on someone else's property. It IS legal to retieve your dogs as long as: you carry no firearm, you cannot use a vehicle or atv and it's alot better if you ask permission first. Most people do. In all honesty, in most situations the dogs will go to a home if they are in a place they've never been. Around these parts, it is common to call hunters when their dogs arrive at your home. The dogs are almost always welcomed with a treat or even let inside. People are very understanding of hunting dogs here and mostly the womenfolk make a bigger deal over the dog than a man would.
All this technical writing don't do it justice. Here's a mental picture for you.
There you are....in the woods along a creek that runs to a river. It's cold, frosty and the squirrels in the riverbottom you're in seems to stay quiet just so you can hear better. Suddenly, off in the distance you hear a deep brawl of a hound break the frost. Then another and another. Soon the faroff baying of hounds in the pines start to filter down to the riverbottom. You have no idea how far the deer is in front of the dogs so you get ready.
Suddenly, you hear leaves crunching under foot. The shotgun comes up only to put your bead on 2 does. That's not what you are looking for.
They trot on heading towards the safety of the river and the swamp on the other side. The dogs are getting closer. Your heart starts pumping faster and the cold is forgotton.
They're coming! You listen and look with every sense at it's highest.
Suddenly you see a twitch on the other sde of the creek. Behind the briars you see horns. A buck! He's standing there...and meanwhile the dogs are coming closer and closer. The buck takes off and hits the river. Man! A big buck too!
Shakin and knowin that somethin else is STILL comin...you get ready again. The dogs are echoing the bottom as loud as a churchbell. Then you realize...they're running that buck!
The dogs hit the river. They are quiet. Just as your heart hits your feet, they cross and away they go again. Around and around they run. You know that buck is way ahead of the dogs..you have to stay ready. Suddenly, the far off splashing of water....could it be? Cracking branches...dear Lord he's running back! And heading straight for you! He's following the creek. Get ready....good Lord here come the dogs too.
One shot and the buck rolls down the hill and hits the creek.
A nice 7pter with a 20" inside spread.
The dogs lick your face and jump all over you....they're proud of you.
That is a true story. I killed that buck in 2000 and have posted his pic here before.
There is nothin in the world like hunting dogs. While there are some arsholes that are illegal and don't "Play by the rules" there are more that are respectable law-abiding hunters than not. But that goes for any state, not just mine.
I hope this helped people understand a little more about a heritage that my Pop taught me and one I plan on passing down to my chidren. I can't think of nothing more fun and more exciting. Not to mention that a loyal, opera-singing, hard working pack of hounds make hunting more enjoyable. For me anyways.
:)