Scare an intruder?

[captain2k_ca]

So do you guys think this would scare an intruder??

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/captain2k_ca/Zombie%20Killing/IMG_6281.jpg

Lots of Blackhawk gear in that pic!
Tacticool remmy 870. Still got lots of gear that I want to add......I love ebay ;)

[fabsroman]

Do you plan on sleeping in that? LOL How long would it take to get all that gear on? you got enough time before the intruder gets to you?

With all that rib poking, I think you would scare the heck out of almost anybody with that setup. Now, what happens if the intruder isn't scared? Can you maneuver that long barrelled shotgun in close quarters? Even though I tend to use my handgun less than any other gun I own, I would prefer in inside the house for home defense. The shotguns and carbines are fine if you want to sit in the corner of the room and blast the guy if he comes through the door, but if you have to move through the house to protect kids I would have to go with a handgun, especially if you are moving around in the dark and using a hand to feel your way. Even opening doors with a long gun is tough, especially if the intruder happens to be in the room that you are opening the door too because the gun will not be in the up and ready position.

The ultimate goal isn't to scare an intruder, but to kill an intruder. Scaring them is great, but you had better be ready to kill them. My uncle used to keep a BB gun in his house to scare intruders. I kept trying to tell him that he would be in big trouble if the intruder was armed and decided to fight back instead of running. Plus, the BB gun would just raise the level of force to one that my uncle could not contend with if the intruder had a firearm.

Okay, that is me rambling on at a late hour about a simple question that I would answer yes to. The gun and the gear look great.

[captain2k_ca]

Oh my, I'd be to scared to kill an intruder!! What with Canadian law being what it is I'd spend the rest of my life in jail!!


Ok serious, I'd empty the whole mag on anybody coming into my house to do me or my family harm.....with the exception of the last two shots which(assuming said intruder is down for good)I would put into the ceiling.....hey, it looks good to the courst if you fire 2 warning shots!!!

And seriously I would then be charged with many offenses, starting with illegal discharge of a firearm, likely murder, unsafe storage of a firearm.......BS you say? Oh yes it is. That is why many people are fighting to change Canadian firearms laws.

Oh, and If I killed an intruder with a handgun?? it would be doubly worse, that I used a "taboo" handgun to shoot somebody?? OMG our Lieberals would have a field day with that!! One more reason to take them away from us.......I can see the headlines:

Illegally armed homeowner guns down innocent intruder!!

Remeber that in Canada, our criminals have more rights than our citizens.....it aint right, but its the truth.

SO that being said, for true home protection......if I was allowed I'd have this:

http://www.helstongunsmiths.com/mp5.gif

And this:

http://www.gun-zone.com/images/glock/GLKPN23507_lg.gif

Beside my bed every night, ready to go.

[fabsroman]

I forgot that you live in Canada. Best bet might be to arm yourself with pots and pans, and maybe some kitchen knives. Let them try to outlaw kitchen utensils and such after you kill an intruder. That might keep their minds off of guns. They would be worrying about what kitchen utensils and appliances could be used as assault weapons, etc. Honestly, it appears that the tide is changing here in the US and we are saying enough is enough. Several states have passed the castle doctrine wherein if you kill an intruder in your house, you are fine and good. I haven't reviewed my state's recently, but I know we have a castle doctrine. I just don't know if I have to be in fear of my life before I pull the trigger which is the stupidest part of the law I have ever heard. Why would I ever pull the trigger on a gun to kill somebody in my house unless I was in fear of losing my life or the life of a loved one.

[TheeBadOne]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/7631adf8.jpg

[captain2k_ca]

TBO, thatd scare most people off!!!


Fabs, even using a knife or a pan to disarm/wound/maim/kill/whatever an intruder in my home he can still charge me....how sad is that???

[Dan Morris]

Originally posted by TheeBadOne
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/7631adf8.jpg

I'd go with the dog! It works for me.
Dan
:cool:

[L. Cooper]

Let's not get too paranoid.

While it is true that you can be charged with using anything for a weapon if you don't really need it, it is also true that you are perfectly entitled to use force, even lethal force, to protect yourself from harm in Canada.

I think the laws regarding self protection (not the gun laws) are quite reasonable. You must be facing a legitimate threat to persons, not property. You must use only that force necessary to negate the threat. That means, once you no longer fear for your safety, you must stop. But the truth is, there are several cases in Canadian law where people used lethal force and were ruled to have been justified.

I suspect, however, that if 2K met an intruder in that outfit, he would be hard pressed to prove he couldn't possibly have had time to try something else. As much fun as it would be, I think you need to appear just a little less premeditated.

:D

[skeet]

Never been too scared of dogs. Somebody sicks a dog on me then he will be DRT. That's just me but I do understand that some think a dog is a good deterrent. If I were a crook bent on theft or whatever in a persons home then I would be armed and the dog would be toast if at all possible.. I may leave after though. Luckily I am not a crook looking for anything in anyone else's home.

You know, I'm not too happy that the police use them for attack dogs either. Saw a poor guy that got chewed up by a K-9 that got loose when he shouldn't have. I have absolutely no problem with them using dogs for drug interdiction and (legal) searches.

LC, I'm not too happy with the way things are going anywhere in the US and Canada now days. The milk sop doo-gooders that seem to pervade our society always want to find a way to "help" the criminal. Guess they feel sorry for them or something. They never seem to feel any sympathies for the victim. They just try to make the crook out to be the "victim".

Oh and C2K...If you had to use anything for home protection the H&K really isn't the right tool. That there shotgun is much better. And they have to over tech all this stuff now days. All the extras on the H&K are really unnecessary for the most part. The H&K IS a neat gun to shoot though. Pretty reliable.

[captain2k_ca]

Any die hard Canadian Liberal would pee his pants if he saw and HK up close :D:D



I suspect, however, that if 2K met an intruder in that outfit, he would be hard pressed to prove he couldn't possibly have had time to try something else. As much fun as it would be, I think you need to appear just a little less premeditated.

"Really your Honor....I always dress like this at home!!!"



I think the laws regarding self protection (not the gun laws) are quite reasonable. You must be facing a legitimate threat to persons, not property. You must use only that force necessary to negate the threat. That means, once you no longer fear for your safety, you must stop. But the truth is, there are several cases in Canadian law where people used lethal force and were ruled to have been justified.


And there have also been cases that went the other way around.......and if firearms get involved(Even in self defense)the ball changes again.......

[TheeBadOne]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/31dbca3e.jpg

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

Regarding the entire dog issue, I think it is a good one. If the perp is armed and he kills my dog before he gets to me, you can bet I will have a good defense for self defense and fearing for my life. He just used deadly force on my dog, so what would make me think he wouldn't use deadly force on me or my family? After I heard the first gun shot ring out, you can bet that the perp wouldn't be confronting me without me getting some rounds off and at that point I wouldn't even be thinking about how everything would look in Court.

Now, if the perp is armed and he kills my dog and decides to leave, that is still fine with me. I'll be pissed that my dog is dead, but no harm will come to my family.

If the thief is unarmed, I would assume that he would flee from a dog, but who knows. A lot of thieves aren't the brightest.

[TheeBadOne]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/TBO/Dogs.jpg

[muledeer]

I blew up your picture and posted it on my front door. I now feel safe:D
I can just see you. "Get down, assume the prone position, you're ManBeef". :eek:
muledeer

[Dan Morris]

Actually, besides two sets of long teeth, in the garage...on a fridge, I have taped several silhouette targets with the heartbeat chewed out by 45 holes and a 357 up in a closet. Also, living in a blue ghetto......help is but a yell away!( Lots of city/county/federal
officers)God forbid I ever have to trigger one....but I'm not overly concerned....going to work is my greatest fear....for that, I keep doors locked n a CCW....
Dan
:cool:

[captain2k_ca]

One of these days I will get my CCW for the US......Yes they teach it in Canada!! :D

Seeing as I plan on one day working between Canada and the US, it would be real handy to have it and put it to use!!


Oh and I also forgot to add, I live in a rental house and we are not allowed to have pets.......so no dogs here :(

So all I got for home or Zombie defense is my remmy 870 :D:D

And it'll put 3" 00 buck right through a door ;)

Hoping to buy a handgun sometime this year......not totally sure what I want to get tho.....I like a few, such as Glocks(Pretty much all Glocks)and I am really fond of the Beretta 92, and 96.

Probably will go with .40 S&W....but maybe a 9mm......

[muledeer]

I have both Beretta's that you mentioned. Keep the 92 in the computer room and the 96 next to my pillow. My concealed carry favorite is the 96.
muledeer

[captain2k_ca]

I have handled the 96 at the local gun store, and what I like is the way it fits my hand, like it was built for it...its very comfortable.

Cant say the same fro any other handguns that I have handled....tho the Springfield XD-40 of my brothers is a pretty decent feel.

If I got a Glock I know it would need different grips on it right away......they just suck.

[Tater]

Just hang a picture of TreeDoc on your door and I guarantee nobody will come near your house:D

[skeet]

Fabs the guy I was talking about wan't a "perp" or anything. He just happened to be in the wrong place when the dog was turned loose. Personally like I said..dogs for searches etc are ok by me but the attack dogs the police use aren't always the most reliable means of criminal control. Not everyone the police catch is a crook ya know. Look at the poor black guy the cops killed in New York. Course not all cops are the most reliable guardians of the law either. Remember..I worked with cops for a lllooonnnggg time. Not all cops are law abiding either. But I am glad we have them...at least most of them.

[fabsroman]

I was just threatened by a police officer tonight. The guy has been a good friend of my brothers for 20 years and a friend of mine for 18 years. He is also married to a client of mine. Last month, I dealt with an officer that is under investigation for assaulting/battering his ex-wife and kids and threatening a fellow police officer. While he was doing all this stuff, he received the LEO of the year award. Just like everybody else, there are good and bad of everything. Problem with LEO's is that they have a gun and they know the legal system somewhat decently. A corrupt garbage collector isn't too bad because they don't have enough power to make your life miserable, but a corrupt LEO, Judge, or politician can cause you some serious problems. Any job with power involved that can affect other people's lives significantly should require lie detector tests every so often.

[Tall Shadow]

I would suggest Everyone here make a trip over to "The Box O' Truth website (Box O' Truth (www.theboxotruth.com/) ) and see first hand what various Guns + Rounds Really do when fired inside a house.

And before it's asked, no, I am in no way associated with them....just have read/seen the tests that "Ol Painless" has done on most every combo of Ammo/Gun/Target out there. Lots of eye opening stuff, lots of "Thinkin' Material" for you to make up your own mind on what your choices should/might be.

Handguns & Shotties are great, but you might just rethink your stands on them after reviewing all of the tests over there. I know I am......

Just passing the info allong...

Tall Shadow

[fabsroman]

I tried to check out that website, but it was confusing as hell. What is the issue Tall Shadow? Is it that the penetration is too great and you could possibly kill somebody on the other side of the wall? If so, I am not too worried about that because I know where everybody in the house is and I can fire toward a side of the house where there is nothing except the outdoors on the other side of the wall.

I saw the test on the box of truth, and the ones I saw were done at 40 yards. I can assure you that no shot would be that far in my house, unless you are shooting at somebody outside the house. So, if it is a lack of penetration issue, that might not be an issue either.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by fabsroman
I tried to check out that website, but it was confusing as hell.

Humm?! Really? I have not been there in a little while, but it was always pretty straight forward....I will have to revisit it tonight (can't now, blocked at work *$(&^$_()



Originally posted by fabsroman
What is the issue Tall Shadow? Is it that the penetration is too great and you could possibly kill somebody on the other side of the wall? If so, I am not too worried about that because I know where everybody in the house is and I can fire toward a side of the house where there is nothing except the outdoors on the other side of the wall.

Well, yes...Overpenitration IS a bigger issue than most people realize.

The trouble with "Knowing Exactly" where everyone is, is that Mr. Murphy likes to prove (Usually with disastrous results) how wrong we all can be......Well, that and people (both the ones we love, and the bad ones trying to do us harm) don't always do what we expect them to. You might be/choose right 4 out of 5 times...but that 5th one will come at the most inopportune time.


Originally posted by fabsroman
I saw the test on the box of truth, and the ones I saw were done at 40 yards. I can assure you that no shot would be that far in my house, unless you are shooting at somebody outside the house. So, if it is a lack of penetration issue, that might not be an issue either.

Most of his tests are done at what he considers a "Minimum" safe range (I'd imagine)...

What I was hoping to get people to see was his tests on the penetration of wall sections....set up like inside walls in an average home.
Handguns, Shotguns, and carbines don't act like Most people expect them to, when shot in to walls that are set up like an average house wall.

What I was trying to help with was that, we all need to evaluate the how, what, where, and when of shooting someone (if it ever comes down to that).
In these days of "Litigation first, truth later!" We All had better be well aware of exactly where all of our rounds are going.

Tall Shadow

[fabsroman]

Tall Shadow,

I will readily agree that almost any round fired in a house, even a .22lr would go through two pieces of drywall unless it happens to hit a stud. A 9mm round might go through 4+ pieces of drywall before stopping.

At the end of the day, I'll take my chances on killing somebody in the house, or the house next door to me, when I have a perp in the house that could possibly kill everybody in the house. At the end of the day, putting all the rounds into the perp will help prevent them from going anywhere else, but that is sometimes a little tough.

AT the end of the day, it is also better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Got that phrase from this chatboard. Plus, if a stranger is in my house without my permission, I am pretty sure that he isn't up to much good, and I am willing to bet that a jury would think the same.

[Tall Shadow]

Fabs!, Don't get me wrong Bro'!....Anyone who is in my house, without being invited, or who doesn't belong there...I will/do plan on making sure they will never get the chance to harm anyone....

What I was trying to provide is just another "Piece of the Puzzle" as it were. We should all have throughly thought our "Plan of Action" should we find ourselves in a situation where we must defend our selfs or our loved ones.

How a Gun + Ammo setup performs in "The Real World" is a big part of that (at least it is in my little part of the world).

We are not all expert in real world gunfights, I don't have the luxury of years of first hand knowledge.....Is what I plan to use effective?

Knowing, not only when to shoot, but also when not to, due to the risk of killing/injuring the very ones we are trying to protect.

Knowing that the "Great advice" you got from "Bob" at the gun club....Isn't Great, but in fact poor advice....Is priceless.

If your "Action Planning" is ready to go...well then, you are all set.

But I always like to keep up on what ever information that is out there......My set up might work OK, but maybe there is something a step better....Maybe I can show someone else my set up...You never know until you do the research.

Take Care Buddy!

Tall Shadow

[skeet]

I've never been in a gun fight per se. I was an unarmed witness to a gun fight. The cop won BTW. But I have been shot at and I WAS shootin back, believe you me. We can try to plan for every circumstance but it just doesn't happen the way we think. Wish it did. The thing we really want to be ready with is the truth as we saw it. Our perceptions aren't always what was true. Not telling you to make absolutely certain that the person in your house has a weapon..cause a delay may cost you or a family member a life...But be certain when ya have to tell the story...the truth as you perceived it. I know of at least one instance of a cop shooting an unarmed man..and he actually got away with it as his peception (and some other "witnesses") was that he was armed. Six 357 rounds in a 4" group in the middle of the chest left only one real story;)

[fabsroman]

Tall Shadow,

I'll agree with your last post completely.

As far as the person being armed or not, you can bet that I will not be checking him to see if he has a gun and I will not be waiting to see if he has a gun. I will be scared for my and my family's life as it is. I'm not a big guy, so if the intruder gets anywhere close to me, that is all it will take. Our plan of action is to wait in the master bedroom and call the police if we think anybody is in the house. If the intruder comes through the bedroom door, that will be the point where I go into action. Once I figure out that he isn't somebody I know or that he is wearing a mask, that will be it. I do not plan on checking out his identity and then checking to see if he has a gun. Mind you, I do not plan on seeking out anybody that is in the house, period. That is the police officer's job, but I will not try to run from the house and the bedroom will be the safe spot for us.