Hunters Graduation

[Dom]

After 10 weeks of intensive classroom instruction covering customs, tradition, animal and bird characteristics, habitat, identification, etc, also dogs, the law, and then range shooting on Saturdays, those in the course then take the shooting exam, both rifle and shotgun, a written exam, and an oral exam. Those that pass are ready to start learning, and regardless of their age, are Young Hunters for the first three years. It is not easy, but once you get a German Hunting License it is recognized worldwide and it is a well known fact that you know how to handle weapons, shoot competently, and can be trusted. Anyway, we graduated another class recently and thot I'd share a few photos, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

The ceremony officially kicks off with the horn blowers:
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After introduction of the Head Table and dignitaries, the 'crowd' goes outside for what is called the Jaegerschlag:
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Complete with bonfire and hornblowers:
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They are called up 3 or 4 at a time and get hit with a Stag knife, on the shoulders. The first blow shall appoint you to the Hunter's Guild. The second blow shall award you strength, to always do the right thing. The third blow shall bind you to a vow of true huntsmanship.
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After a nice evening meal with a full house:
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I also present awards, holding a 'competency shoot' and assorted other awards are also presented:
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The evening continues with charges to the young hunters, a kangaroo court, and turns in to a party where the celebration continues. A last photo to share, a really good guy, has been helping with the American Hunting Courses for many, many years, a heckuva good guy. Behind him that wall is covered totally with shooting plates, most of the classes held have a plate on the wall and it adds history to the Rod & Gun Club.
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[Gunslingergirl]

I think that's very cool. I like how people dress up for it too, like it's an occasion.

Do the hats signify that you're now a hunter? I notice all the new hunters seem to be wearing them.

Thanks for posting this. Its always fun to see how other countries handle hunting.

GSG

[jplonghunter]

Dom

Great post. It is good to see people that interested in fair chase hunting. Keep us informed.

Ray

[BILLY D.]

GSG

One thing that really set me aghast was how the Germans looked when they hunted. It looked like a fashion parade. The most uncouth thing you could ever do was to get blood on your clothing. That is a sign of sloppiness and of a poor hunter.

In Germany you dare not look like Joe S#!t the rag man when you hunt.

They don't wear camo or use de-scenters, at least not at the time I was observing them. The animals are held in high regard. When an animal is harvested a small amount of the food that it normaly eats is placed in it's mouth as a salute and a last meal, and it won't be hungry in the after life.

As far as seeing those traditions here in the States forget it. It's is not and never has been how we do things. A very small percentage of the German populace hunts and game animals are micromanaged. They can probably tell you through DNA sampling the lineage of every Hirsch (deer) there.

We have our own traditions here, things the Germans could only dream about, Deer Camps etc. But I do respect the Germans for their traditions. One other thing, if you hunt in Germany you have deeeeeeeeeeep pockets. Just the taxes you pay for your firearm would disqualify most Americans.

Best wishes, Bill

[Dom]

GSG, good eyes. The new hunters must wear a hat so they have a place where they can place their shooters branch in the right side of it. Kind of small to see, but the Lady Hunter is offering the Shooters Branch to the Young Hunter on his Hat -- by the way, she graduated as a Young Hunter in 1969!! And it was not easy for women back then. Others hunters have choice if they want to wear a hat.
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Billy -- you musta been huntin' w/the elite!! Like anything, take golf for instance, how much bucks can you stick into that? Or bike riding? Or whatever. Naturally, if you have your equipment and don't have to start from scratch hunting is relatively inexpensive the world over -- providing you're doing it the 'local' way. Look what it costs to book a one week Elk or Bear hunt in the good ol' US of A. I'm afraid the only way I'll make that happen is through friends or connections. Same in Germany and Europe. Here's more normal attire, and even an occasional camouflage or BDU is worn:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/p1989ac32238d5e36d07fa1b79cc79bd5/f5de9937.jpg

I will agree that you don't often see 'Joe the Ragman' as you say tho!! But I actually think that's a good thing. Yes, each country has good points and bad points. I hunt 24/7 365 days a year if I wish, free (other than the cost of a Hunting License).

Sounds like you did enjoy some time hunting over here, as you still have many memories.

And yes, you can field dress animals w/o looking like you spent 8 hours in a butcher shop!! Waidmannsheil, Dom.
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[BILLY D.]

Dom

Thank you for the enlightenment. In the years I spent in Germany I went hunting exactly Twice. I donot know if they were elitists but I went with the obermeister from Niederstedem, Herr Kohl and his Partner a construction engineeer. Herr Kohl was also our landlord. We rented the school house there. It was formerly the teachers quarters. I loved that place. Absolutely beautiful. Apple orchards on both sides of us. Our front yard was a Fussball field.

I guess they both sensed my feelings when I looked at them and their hunting attire, because they both explained the reasons for it. But they were in woolen suits with dress shirts and ties. Boots with semi bloused cuffs. The look of apprehension on my face must have been a telling story. Now mind you this was in the early 70's. I don't doubt things may have changed a little since then.

These guys both had firearms I would have killed for. One a double, rifle/shotgun and the other a drilling. No semi-autos or belt feds here. They both harvested their game with one shot and very surgically accomplished. This made an immediate impression on me and when I got back statesside I change my way of hunting, no more shots off into the wild blue yonder, I learned to stalk my game and be patient. I guess that is why I like archery and muzzleloaders so much now. They only thing I've taken at long range lately is Antelope, with guess what? A 6,5x68 Schuler/ Von Hoffe/RWS or whatever it is deemed. It was formerly a 264 Win Mag barrel that I removed from a Model 70 Win. and re-chambered it and placed on a vz 24 action. The guy that I got the barrel from said it wouldn't shoot. Yeah, right. Well it put an Antelope to sleep at 280+ yards.

Someday, before I croak I hope to visit Germany again. I have friends in Niederstedem that I still converse with. One has written two books about the Bitburg Air Base. His name is Horst Weber.
We get together and BS and it sounds like I don't know what, me with my limited German and him speaking Very good English. Sounds like a Yiddish Picnic.

My Wife and I were both members of the Bitburg Rod and Gun club. Had our fishing permits and all. My wife was an excellent fly fisherwoman. She taught me. For the most part she taught me how to hunt and shoot also. I was raised in big cities and didn't have much opportunity to participate in the sport of hunting, my early initiation to shooting came when I learned to shoot and paticipated on a rifle team in college. I loved it and have never been very far from firearms since.

Speaking of hunting, have you seen any German Wirehairs over there? I was just wondering. I don't remember ever seeing a hunting dog there. Lots of snot nosed parasite lap dogs though. Most of them couldn't find a soup bone in a garbage can.

Once school is over do the graduates then join a club of some sort? Who do you talk to about getting permission to hunt. I sincerely doubt Germany has any public land open to hunting. When I was there every little piece of land was used and something was growing on it. But I would suppose that may have changed also.

Any way thank you for your photos and explanations. And if you are a fisherman, Petri heil.

Best wishes, Bill

[skeet]

Dom it really is neat to see the traditions that are passed on over there. On the same note though, I could never get into the regimented way of hunting evident in Germany. When guiding hunters for waterfowl I was lucky enough to take hunters from many countries all over the world. I even took some"hunters" that had never held a firearm before. Somewhat scary. Surprisingly the US is a favorite destination for many German hunters. Of the approximate dozen or so I took hunting every one seemed to like the unregimented(not unregulated though) hunting we had here. One wanted to use his drilling while waterfowl hunting..and they are not allowed in the US. He did get it finally though. And almost all were good to very good shotgun pointers. The few French I took hunting were mostly pretty poor shooters. I even guided a couple of Russian diplomats back in the mid 80's. They were surprisingly very good shots..but were a little miffed when I wouldn't let them drink while hunting. I'm glad the world has people with traditions such as those you have shown. I guess that most Americans are just to independant to have the same adherence to tradition. Or maybe it's just me!!:D :D

[BILLY D.]

Hey skeet

"splain something to me. I always thought Drillings were legal here except for use on waterfowl because of the rilfe barrel. Can't shoot gooseys with a rifle.

Is this an incorrect assumption on my part? You can use a shotgun on deer, antelope etc. a long with a rifle. but not the other way around for waterfowl.

I'm confuzled.

Bill

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by BILLY D.

We get together and BS and it sounds like I don't know what, me with my limited German and him speaking Very good English. Sounds like a Yiddish Picnic.



What a great description. I can almost imagine it. :) :D ;)

[skeet]

The Feds do not allow rifled firearms while hunting waterfowl. It is a no no. Many years ago I had a father bring his son goose hunting with one of the Savage M-24 20 ga with 22 mag upper bbl. Kid didn't have any rifle ammo( I made sure of that) with him. Had to talk the game warden out of writing a ticket to the kid. Luckily we hadn't fired a shot on the first day of the hunt and the Federal warden(his name was D'arcy Davenport if I remember correctly) just told us he couldn't hunt with a combo gun. At the same time you are not allowed to have any kind of rifled slug sabot or even an ol punkin ball while hunting waterfowl either. Now in many places across the country where you don't see many Federal Wardens such as where I live now...you probably wouldn't have to worry about it as long as there was no rifle ammo in possession. BTW at lunch I went home and got one of my 1100 20 ga guns for the kid. He even shot a goose or two on his own. Father was tickled as was I.:D :cool: Just wanted to say also that those ol German guys didn't even think of having a beer during the day(unless we got done early)...but boy did they like to have a few cold ones afterwards...WOW!..They could really pour it down!

I really had some unique experiences guiding during some of the best goose hunting the US has ever seen.. In 3 small counties on the Eastern Shore of Md we had a population of a million or more Canada geese. I had quite a few times when I had a toll(decoying birds) of more than 500 geese. Largest toll was well over 5000. And that toll almost got me thrown into the river by the Professional football player hunters I had out that day. I wouldn't let them shoot!hehe

[Dom]

Petriheil Billy, I fish rarely over here because I don't have the time. With hunting seasons for various game running all year, hunting courses, working in the hunting areas, and competition shooting I got no spare time!! Glad you got out at least a couple times, yes things have changed. The young hunters mostly are members of Rod & Gun Clubs, and make contacts with hunters who take them out. I have taken many out myself. Bitburg is history, as well as many, many installations and kasernes. There are a lot of 'people' with dogs, and a lot of hunters with 'real' dogs, the hunting type, and yes, I've seen many wirehairs, dachshound (earth dogs, mainly for scooting down fox dens, etc), GSP, Bloodhounds, Weimeramers, Visela's, and many more). I do hope you get to visit again, seems you have fond memories. You make do with where you're at and learn to enjoy life or remain, I wouldn't say miserable, but just like biding your time if you know what I mean. Enjoy life, it's shorter than you think . . .

I think each state has their own rules on combination weapons, for some I've heard if you have a wooden dowel as a plug you can use drillings for feathered game, but you probably have to look up the state rules on where you're going to hunt.

So skeet, guess I can't use my drilling there where you're at, goose shooting with a hornet is out!!

I am truly thankful for getting to experience hunting and shooting over here, that's not something you can do in a week hunt or vacation, it takes years. Anyway, like I said, there's good and bad no matter where you go or hunt, just gotta look at the bright side, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[BILLY D.]

Dom

My fond hopes have long since vanished about owning a drilling unless I get extremely lucky in the future.

My Grandfather was a Gunsmith or should I say builder. He often told me stories of the work and effort that went into the process. I was always facinated by the barrel regulation on those rifles and how the sights were set for a certain load. I understood partly what he was trying to express to me but as a child I did not fully comprehend all the mathmatical and physic skills that were involved. When I visited Austria and spoke with the gentleman there I learned and understood a lot more. Engraving is not one of my attributes either. I think I would keep the Prozac company in business. I'm a type A anyway and not the most patient soul at times. I'm more of the instant gratification with no commitment type in some areas.

Sometimes I don't know how my kids put up with me. Well, sometimes they didn't. My oldest daughter told me once to shape up or ship out. So I shaped up. I guess I was a hemorrhoid at times and she had a big job ramrodding 4 other kids, not easy for a kid who was still in her teens. After her mother passed she was the head of the family when I wasn't around. A big responsibility.

I was wondering about how popular Wirehairs were over there. I don't know if you recall or not but I got one from Nulle a while back. In some areas he is a great dog, but he still has a few rough edges. One thing that amazes me is he thinks he has to re-kill everything I shoot. Sometimes it's funny. He's also a bed hog. Whenever I get in bed at night he snarls, growls and raises all kinds of heck. He never has snapped at me though. He is very hard headed, typical German, and when he is dis-pleased with something I do he will sulk and go lay down with his backside pointed directly at me. Reminds me of a spoiled little kid.

My wife and I spent a lot of time walking the woods when we were there. it was a great place to reflect, talk about things in general and be out of the house. One of my favorite fishing tricks over there was to take 25 quarters and throw them as far as I could and tell the kids they could not re-join their mother and I untill they found all the quarters. I always short changed them by one or 2 quarters. Then Mom and I could get some quality time. After a while though the little boogers wised up.

We made the most of time over there and enjoyed every minute of it. Like you said lifes too short to sit around and grouse about it. There is always some form of enjoyment.

Best wishes, Bill

[skeet]

You are welcome to goose hunt with whatever you want. Them game wardens are the ones that get annoyed. That Hornet really plunks a hole in 'em though. Love that caliber. First drilling I ever had was a 16x16x22 hornet..2nd was the same with 22 High Power for the rifle. Just never had an awful lot of use for the 16 though. I also had a Krieghoff O/U combo gun for a short time. A little heavy but extremely well made.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by skeet
You are welcome to goose hunt with whatever you want. Them game wardens are the ones that get annoyed. That Hornet really plunks a hole in 'em though. Love that caliber. First drilling I ever had was a 16x16x22 hornet..2nd was the same with 22 High Power for the rifle. Just never had an awful lot of use for the 16 though. I also had a Krieghoff O/U combo gun for a short time. A little heavy but extremely well made.

Shut up skeet

I covet my neighbors firearms and am envious of your drillings. You really know how to hurt a guy. :eek:

I love 16 sxs. I have an old Mas manufactured in St. Etienne
I picked up years ago. It's a farmers or wardens gun and is equiped with a sling.

It is one SWEET swinger. It is the perfect Pheasant, Grouse and Partridge gun.

I also harvested a few ducks and geese with it but you have to hunt close to get them. No sky blasting here.

Bill

[skeet]

Don't worry. I no longer have those guns. As I said the 16 just ain't my cuppa tea. Sold them long ago. I WAS in the business ya know? I have had quite a few European SxS guns and most have had sling swivels on 'em. In fact I just sold a nice little 16 ga O/U that had sling swivels on it. It was an early Valmet and handled really nice. The only European guns I own now are a Bavaria Grade Krieghoff K-80 and a Standard K-80 both with small gauge tubes and a Pre war Oberndorf Mauser sporter with Zeiss scope in clawmounts. Beautiful rifle but in a weird caliber as many were. Never shot it although I have ammo and loading supplies. Haven't really paid much attention lately but I think it is in 8X53 cal or 8X51.. Have to go look at the dies...Mannlicher stock with horn tip, grip cap and butt plate. Only paid 450 bucks for that little gem. quite a few years ago now.