The word WEAPON

[PJgunner]

It seems to me that the word "weapon" is used somewhat indiscriminately on the various message boards. :( I'm not all that sure we should be using that terminology when referring to our sporting firearms.
As I see it, a weapon is a device, be it gun, knife, baseball bat, whatever used either in an act of aggression or defense.
In the Hunter Education class I teach, the word weapon will draw a fine of 25 cents from the user. :o
I realize that many who use the word got into the habit while serving in the military and like most habits, a bit hard to break
Let's be honest here, I don't doubt that anti-gun and anti-hunting people come to these sites to gain insight into our ways of thought so as to use them against us. When some nimrod says, "I raised my weapon and shot the deer." they see the word "weapon" (aggression) and deer. (Poor little Bambi.) You and I know it's stupid, but let's face it, they want to stop our sport any way they can. let's not give them the ammunition to do so.
Paul B.

[Rocky Raab]

I fully understand what you're trying to say and do, PJ. It's admirable.

But see my post on Political Correctness.

[Gunslingergirl]

I was told quite early on when I started writing about hunting that weapon was not a word to be used. I was writing some advertising copy for our product at the time.

Since then, I try not to use that word in connection with hunting.

Don't know if it really makes a difference or not, but it is a pretty easy thing to do.

GSG

[Andy L]

I agree to an extent.

On a side note, I have had my eyes opened the last couple years to the different gun owners. One of the other sites I go to, is for Missouri Gun Laws. They are very active in politics and have alot of the responsibility for us having CCW, Castle Doctrine and alot of other proactive gun laws. Actually, from the book I got on all the states, MO is now in the top 5 for states with good gun/self protection laws.

However, there is a bunch of those guys, not saying they are bad, that mouth hunters. I got into a small argument about it when they said alot of hunters would be willing to give up handguns and AR type weapons for just their hunting rifles and shotguns. I hadnt seen that before. (Until Zumbo :rolleyes: ). However, I was surprised to see that there are some groups that are willing to give up "weapon" type guns for just hunting guns.

Anyhow, I probably didnt do anything but stir the pot here, but I just assumed gun owners would all stand together. Not the case appearantly.

[BILLY D.]

I'm with Paul on this one.

You know, now that I think about it maybe this is how Mr. Zumbo felt when he made his ill fated statement. By the time he tried to correct it he had already walked up his necktie with his golf shoes on. Hey, I cleaned that up purty good huh? I'm sure Rocky knows the military version of that statement.

I share a lot of Mr. Zumbo's feelings. There is no way in tarnation I would walk into the hunting fields with an M-1, AR, SKS. To me it's like carrying a boat oar to a golf match. But that is just my personal biases. If you like them and want to use them thats fine with me.

Best wishes, Bill

[Andy L]

Pot stirred.

Billy, if you ever sat a predator calling stand with an AR you would see why. Not for the spray and pray factor, but for the short, light easy handling. Of course on multiples, the quick followup is good too. (I think in most situations I can work the bolt and fire again ACCURATELY as most can with an AR) But the AR is nothing different from the Ruger Mini 14 or the Remington or Browning semi autos. Except maybe more accurate, more comfortable and more reliable? Uncle Sam does choose his guns pretty well in most cases. If its good enough for our boys to fight with, whys it not good to hunt with in situations where the above factors are desired?

I dont own one. I have hunted with one and I do want one. Actually would love to have an AR with a 17Rem bbl on it. AR17. They are sweet.

[Andy L]

BTW, Billy, are you in that crowd I mentioned above? If Hitlarly wins the election, or Obama, would you be willing to compromise with them and say ok, Ill vote to give in the handguns and "assault" rifles if you let me keep my hunting guns?

Remember, they also want "sniper rifles". Their definintion is any gun capable of firing a round over 100 yrds. And takes in scopes and semi auto shotguns.

Are you willing Billy?

[skeet]

I feel the same way as PJ. I never use the term weapon when referring to my sporting firearms. It's either a gun, rifle, handgun or shotgun. People do get squirrely when the word weapon is used. I also agree that a weapon is something that is USED against a person or in defence of a person...or if it is pointed at ME.

Politically correct I am not..and never will be but I never use the word except in the context it was meant for. Actually Billy, I have a Bushmaster varminter and it is one of the more accurate rifles I shoot. It's a lot of fun too. As far as an M-1 garand or an AK..or even an M-1 carbine..I have to agree. They are mostly ugly. I know quite a few guys back in Md that hunt Sika deer down in the swamps and they mostly use either an old shotgun or increasingly they use an SKS. I can tell ya it is extremely dirty hunting and I understand why they use them. If you are lucky you may get as many as two shots. They are still ugly though:D

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Andy L
Pot stirred.

Billy, if you ever sat a predator calling stand with an AR you would see why. Not for the spray and pray factor, but for the short, light easy handling. Of course on multiples, the quick followup is good too. (I think in most situations I can work the bolt and fire again ACCURATELY as most can with an AR) But the AR is nothing different from the Ruger Mini 14 or the Remington or Browning semi autos. Except maybe more accurate, more comfortable and more reliable? Uncle Sam does choose his guns pretty well in most cases. If its good enough for our boys to fight with, whys it not good to hunt with in situations where the above factors are desired?

I dont own one. I have hunted with one and I do want one. Actually would love to have an AR with a 17Rem bbl on it. AR17. They are sweet.

Having limited experience with m-14 and m16's and four years + in Vietnam you don't have to tell me about multiple hits. I thoroughly understand the concept.

In my 60 years of hunting I have never had my position overun by a charging, rabid herd of Fox, Coyote, Gophers or Pasture Poodles.

I could really start a war, no pun intended, by saying "I don't think military style firearms should be used by hunters". Then we could all throw our bolt action rifles on the trash heap and go back to sling shots. Course then we could say the sling shot was also a military weapon. Ad nauseum.

PLEASE re-read my last sentence in my post. I didn't say they should be outlawed. I SAID,"IF YOU LIKE THEM USE THEM". I JUST DON'T LIKE THEM. Again, they are not my preference.

By the way I do have an M-1.

Best wishes, Bill

[Andy L]

I wasnt attacking you Billy, hope you didnt take me wrong.

I know you have experience, way more than I do, with those type weapons. I thank you for your service from my heart.

I guess I was just not aware that there is dissent among the ranks of gun owners? That really scares me. Theres alot of "if it doesnt affect me...." attitudes out there that blow my mind. I didnt figger you to be one of them.

Just checkin. :cool: :)

[fabsroman]

There should be no distinction between any gun, and if anything, we should fight to keep the military type guns more than the other guns. The way I view the 2nd amendment is as something to prevent the government from ruling us. Now how are we going to do this with over/unders, sxs, and 6 shooters, and no rifles that can fire over 100 yards?

Andy, you and I have gotten into this before, and the only way I would ever want to give up any of my guns is if there was a guarantee that I would not have to worry about any violence to me or my family, or any oppression to me or my family by government. Since NOBODY can guarantee that, other than maybe God himself, I am not willing to give up any gun whatsoever.

If I have to deal with bad LEO's or other people after a natural disaster (e.g., hurricane Katrina, hurricane Andrew) or at any other time, you can bet I want an AR-15 or AR-10 instead of a Beretta 686 o/u. If I need the guns to provide food, I would also prefer an AR to a shotgun since I would be hunting big game if available.

At the end of the day, I think it is more important to fight for these military guns than guns for shooting animals or targets. When the Constitution was drafted, it just so happened that military and hunting guns were one and the same, a musket.

[Dom]

I see the point, then I don't see the point.

I see no harm in using the word weapon at all. I think it's us hunters and shooters that seem to have an issue with it because we're knowledgeable and know all the various kinds.

BUT, how do you cover them all? The word gun is kind of blan, shotgun, rifle, pistol, revolver, muzzleloader narrow it down, then you go to type of action, pump, auto, break open, etc.

When I want to cover them all with one word I use weapon, don't have a problem with it, and see no issue. Gun just seems like a kindergarten type of word and just sounds 'funny' to me. I don't see this as an issue, really, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

P.S. When I went thru Basic in the military, a couple years ago at least, if you used gun, you're entire platoon low crawled at 2 A.M. in the rain around the barracks for an hour. Guess it's stuck with me because I still cringe when I hear 'gun' . . . ;)

And they even let us sing!! This is my weapon this is my gun, one is for fighting the other for fun.

[popplecop]

PJgunner, I have to agree with you 100%. As a retired Law Enforcement Officer and Army Vet. I know what weapons are and how they are used. I use firearms now adays for my shooting pleasure and hunting. Have been with Hunter Safety in Wisconsin since 1968 and use the term firearm only. Just my 2 cents, if worth that much.

[Rocky Raab]

What I's like to know is what suddenly put this burr under your saddle, PJ?

You've posted this same question on at least three shooting boards.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
What I's like to know is what suddenly put this burr under your saddle, PJ?

You've posted this same question on at least three shooting boards.

Very astute Rocky. I guess he's testing the waters, just like I would do.

A cross section of answers sometimes can be important.

When you ask the same question on 3 different type forums you involve 3 different types of individuals. Hunters, Handgun and rifle types of guys and gals. It's like Chicken soup, it couldn't hurt.

I answered on two of the forums and I'm keeping my yap shut from now on, or I'll sugar coat the answer so I won't get beat about the head and ears.

Have I told you yet today of my new found love affair with AR's and M-16's. I'm going to try to order some this weeek. :eek: I'll sell my Mausers, Savages and Winchester rifles to buy them. Next goes the Contenders causethey ain't weapony enough. :rolleyes:

Bill

[Skinny Shooter]

Can I hijack this thread? :)
Billy, if you could, PM me with a list of those Contenders, I may be in the market for more. I promise they will get a loving home and have the opportunity to wreak mayhem on pasture grizzlies annually. :D

And let me know if anyone tries to box around your ears, I'll get your six.

I sorta look at guns like they were golf clubs. I have a different set of shootin' irons for each "par" (or groundhog hole). ;)

Just to add. If Pa were to allow semi-auto rifles for groundhogs etc, I'd have no problem with the gun being limited to 3 rounds total. 2 in the mag, one in the chamber.
Allen

[Andy L]

So, your ok with gun control Skinny? As long as its formed to fit you?

[Skinny Shooter]

hahaha, nice try Andy. :D
Gun control has nothing to do with my comments if you look at current hunting reg's here in Pa.
Now if you want to talk about gum control, that could be good for another thread. :D

[Andy L]

Dang, I thought I could get you goin too... :D

Yeah, but they are stupid laws. (maybe that will work?)

[fabsroman]

Yeah, I cannot believe that Skinny cannot use an auto in PA to hunt groundhogs. Are they worried that he might kill too many of them? I guess the worry might be that hunters would use the pray and spray method and might not keep track of where they are shooting at the groundhog, deer, or other animal is trying to get out of Dodge.

[Rocky Raab]

Fabs, Pennsy has some odd gun/hunting laws - but what state doesn't?

Here in Utah, we can use a semi-auto, but it can't hold more than five rounds. On the other hand, ANY centerfire rifle is legal for deer, so it'd be legal to hunt big muleys with a .22 Hornet or even a .17 Fireball here. Like I said, weird.

[Lilred]

I got to thinkin...(yeah I know how dangerous that can be) and I caint recall that I've ever used the word weapon. Ever.
It's rifle, shotgun er whatever.
How many times have you heard a cop on tv say..."throw down yer weapon!"
Hmmm....let's see here...here's some defs of the term weapon i found on google...A weapon is a tool which can be used during combat to kill or , to destroy property, or to otherwise render resources non-functional or unavailable. It may be used to attack and defend, and consequently also to threaten. The use of weapons has been recorded since the advent of cave painting, and the process has been formulated resulting in both martial arts and strategic doctrines.

and this one....

means a firearm as defined in 18 USC 921 for purposes of the Gun-Free Schools Act. It also means any other gun, BB gun, pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, machine gun, disguised gun, dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, switchblade knife, gravity knife, brass knuckles, sling shot, metal knuckle knife, box cutter, cane sword, electronic dart gun, Kung Fu star, electronic stun gun, pepper spray or other noxious spray, explosive or incendiary bomb, or other device, instrument, material or substance ...


I reckon it's kinda like anythin offensive..some people it makes mad and some it dont. Does it make me mad? No, it wouldnt bother me all that much...but if you see a red-headed 3yr old runnin round with a broom...yep...that there is a weapon. I have witnessed the carnage of that scenario..and it aint perty ;)

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Andy L
Dang, I thought I could get you goin too... :D
Yeah, but they are stupid laws. (maybe that will work?) :D
Originally posted by fabsroman
Yeah, I cannot believe that Skinny cannot use an auto in PA to hunt groundhogs. Are they worried that he might kill too many of them? I guess the worry might be that hunters would use the pray and spray method and might not keep track of where they are shooting at the groundhog, deer, or other animal is trying to get out of Dodge. A little of all three perhaps... ;)

[gumpokc]

Hmm...i always thought a weapon, was _anything_ used in an aggressive manner.

cars....planes....rope...shoelaces...pencils...roll of quarters...rifle/pistol/shotgun...even words can be a weapon...doesn't matter _what_ it is, it's the intenton _behind_ it's usage.


a firearm, is a tool, built to launch a small bit of metal at a high rate of speed and strike a predetermined spot at a distance.

There used to be a guy (can't remember name offhand) who would shoot thin copper sheets with a .22 and make pictures...is that a tool or a weapon?

Was a guy here in oklahoma awhile back, took a black and decker drill and ran it through his wifes forehead while she was sleeping....is that a tool or a weapon?

Anything can be a weapon, including parts of a person body, Anything can be a tool.....it all depends on the usage one puts those things too.