Is Reloading on the way out?

[Contenderizer]

Is anyone else experiencing this problem? We have three gunshops in the area and two are getting out of the reloading business (the third has so little in stock that they never have what you want anyway). They claim they can't compete with online stores which sell presses and dies for less than they can buy them. I can understand that, but unfortunatly, they also stopped carrying the expendables, such as powder and primers. Sure, I can buy them on the internet too, but the Haz Mat charges kill you. The nearest Cabela's is 600 miles away; Bass Pro about 150 (and I'm not sure Bass Pro carries expendables anyway). What's a guy to do these days?

[Gil Martin]

Ammo prices are marching right off the charts. I use cast and jacketed bullets. We are blessed with a number of local gun shops and they have everything I need. I cannot afford factory ammo. All the best...
Gil

[fabsroman]

Same thing happened here. Most of the gun shops started cutting back on their supplies. It got to the point where it wasn't worth it for me to even waste the gas to go and look.

I order everything from the internet now and just pay the haz mat fee. Last time I had to order powder and primers, the haz mat fee was $20. How much is it now?

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Same thing happened here. Most of the gun shops started cutting back on their supplies. It got to the point where it wasn't worth it for me to even waste the gas to go and look.

I order everything from the internet now and just pay the haz mat fee. Last time I had to order powder and primers, the haz mat fee was $20. How much is it now?

Fabs and Contenderizer

It is becoming increasingly difficult for the small shops to stock the things we need to feed our hobby. And money is the reason. When ever I can buy from a local shop I do. But it's hard for me to drive to Bismarck,112 miles for a pack of primers. I usually make 2 trips a year down there, spring and fall. I'm surprised the North Dakota DOT doesn't make me put a placard on my truck. :eek:

The haz mat fee is still $20 and you can ship a goodly amount for that. I just got 5#'s of MRP in for a friend of mine that lives in Canada. He was so happy with the price and being able to get that brand, I thought he was gonna kiss me. YUCK. Now he could sick his Lady friend on me anytime. She is knock down drag out dead gorgeous. Far out.

It sure is fun getting to meet folks that you have only conversed with on the net. Believe it or not there are real people behind those screen names. Good people. We already made plans for another powder drop off later this year. I didn't get to stay very long cause I was on my way to Minneapolis. I'm visiting my Grandaughter.

By the way if you need primers and powders Powder Valley in Kansas is a great source. They have a web site.

Best wishes, Bill

[Rocky Raab]

Vicious Cycle #111

My local shop doesn't carry what I need so I'll shop on the internet.

My customers shop on the internet, so I'll stop carrying what they need.


This is the exact parallel to what happened with Wal-Mart. People stopped buying at their local shop because things were a little cheaper at WM. The local shops went out of business. Now WM has stopped carrying shooting stuff at any price. So who came out ahead? Not shooters. Not the local shop owners. Not even Wal-Mart.

Any lessons learned? I sure hope so.

[Catfish]

I`m finding it harder and harder to find what I want locally for 2 reasons. As stated there are few shops and carring less, plus I`m getting into more speclized bullets and powder. I`m shooting alot of 80 gn. .22 cal. bullets and no body ever carried them to start with. That and the alot of the powder I`m burning is slower than anyone carries. I can still get primers locally and when I order powder I get 6 - 8 lb. juggs at a time. That $ 20 doesn`t hurt as bad when you spread it over 48 lbs. of powder. I just ordered another 2,000 bullets alittle bit ago, thank heavens there`s not hasmat on lead.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Catfish
I`m finding it harder and harder to find what I want locally for 2 reasons. As stated there are few shops and carring less, plus I`m getting into more speclized bullets and powder. I`m shooting alot of 80 gn. .22 cal. bullets and no body ever carried them to start with. That and the alot of the powder I`m burning is slower than anyone carries. I can still get primers locally and when I order powder I get 6 - 8 lb. juggs at a time. That $ 20 doesn`t hurt as bad when you spread it over 48 lbs. of powder. I just ordered another 2,000 bullets alittle bit ago, thank heavens there`s not hasmat on lead.

Hi

Which 80 grainers are you shooting? I know Nosler makes them also, who else? The 80 gr Sierras just never performed the way I thought they should.
I got a 22-250 AI with a 1:8 twist. My best shot with it was on old Wiley. He took off across the plains and I waited for him to get along ways off and whistled. He stopped and looked at me with this smug look on his face and I popped him. He jumped and did two twists and a half gainer and piled up. Lazered he was 375 yds. I immediately patted myself on the back and told myself what a great shot I am, NOT. All I said to myself was, "you lucky SOB you couldn't do that again in 10 years."

Any way, whatcha using?

Best wishes, Bill

[Catfish]

Bill,
I`ve been shooting the Serrias. I shot 1, 3 shot group at 500 yrds. with them and it was 3 1/4 in., just over .6 moa at 500 not to bad, but I think I can do better. That load was way to slow to suit me though, 2,800 fps. I filled the case with H-870 and got it up to 3,200 fps. still to slow so I`m looking for acouple different powders. OH, the round is a .22-6mm. I did alittle playing with the 75 Hornady A max and they showed promess, but I`m wanting to get alittle faster powder befor I play to much more, kinda looking out for barrel life with this hot rod. I should get 3,500 to 3,600 fps with an 80 gn. bullet.
I did get 1 coyote with it at 350 yrds. He just fell over and never moved. But I really expect that from this rifle. I built it for long range and it wears a 24X Leupold so my aim point at 500 yrds. is a bullet hole. AND, from what I`ve seen so far the bullets are landing exactly where the Serria ballistics charts says they should.

[Contenderizer]

The Haz Mat fee is still $20, but they won't mix primers with powder. Each must be shipped in a seperate package with a Haz Mat fee paid on both. If you're working-up a new recipe that requires primers and powder you don't have around the shop, you're looking at $40 in Haz Mat fees when ordering off the internet. That's a sharp stick in the eye that can discourage almost anyone who works for a living. It sure gives me pause about any experimentation.

[Dom]

I don't think reloading is on the way out, but for sure it won't be as easy. Will have to do more planning and less spur of the moment, I mean, keep track of what you need with a list, then order less frequent but more of it to keep the supply up. What we also do here is combine our orders amongst 3 or 4 of us. Yes it will be more difficult, but still worth it. I also notice increases in the cost of the components, especially some bullets, due to metals increases, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Catfish]

Rocky,
Our local Wally World still carries fire arms. It was a fantastic place to buy gun for a while there as they were selling the guns from all of the other stores in the area. They had several youth model Rem. 700`s in .243 with a cheap scope for $ 250 new. It was all I could do to get out of there without buying acouple of guns every time I went in, and they never really had anything I wanted. :rolleyes: But that`s all over now. They are still carring guns, but the supper deals are over.

[skeet]

The local?? wally world in Cody also sells reloading supplies etc. The prices however are horrendous. There are approx 7 gun shops on Cody though. Ballard Rifle is based here Kinda neat what you can see in the gunshops out in this area. Even a Barrett or so.

[Contenderizer]

Last time I was in our Wally World I swore I wouldn't go back. The manager of Sporting Goods is as mean as a junkyard dog and has the personality of a 5 lb bar of lead. When I asked her if she would order in some powder, she said I would have to buy the entire case. She seemed to feel that what ever Wally had in stock was good enough for everyone else, so it should be good enough for me. I guess I was being picky.

[Dan Morris]

No, reloading is not going out, a lot of shops are......you just gotta plan longer range. I've been loading seance I was about 14 and don't plan on stopping now! Only use factory when I need brass.
Dan

[Jack]

My local shop carries very little reloading equipment- a few common caliber die sets, a few accessories, etc, and that's all. They'll tell you that everyone's gone to getting their reloading supplies from the on line retailers.
However, they do carry a decent supply of primers and powder, and they do an active trade in those.
The great thing about this shop is that, for a regular customer, they will order anything you want.
Consequently, I do all my powder/primer business with them.
This shop has adapted very well to the internet- they are quite willing to accept/ship things from the gun auction sites, and do quite a bit of business that way. They also do a large trade in used guns, and full service gunsmithing- and they are thriving.
They are a good example of what the local gunshop should do to survive in this era, I think.

[gumpokc]

I've seen pretty much what the rest of you have.

We had a good store here in OKC that used to have lots of reloading equipment and supplies, more than anyone else.
Basspro ran them into the ground :(

Basspro carries some stuff, but their pisspoor attitude, and high prices really don't cut it.

Several others stores carry some reloading stuff, but they are usually willing to order for you, just they cant go making special orders of small amounts of oddballs products generally.

I have three places that i've gotten a good enough relationship that they will order me whatever i need as long as I:
A: realise they are not a charity
B: give them a little headsup if possible
C: provide them with the information for _exactly_ what it is I
want.

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for good service, especially if it helps keep the local shops around.
Might cost me a little more shortterm, but it saves alot of headaches and hassles in the longrun.

[Adam Helmer]

I do not think "reloading is on the way out."

Local sources of components may "dry up" in some areas, but then the reloaders need to go stock up at a distant place and get several bricks of primers, 20 or 30 pounds of powder and whatever brass they need for 3 or 4 years down the road.
The haz mat fees will pay for enough gasoline to go get a pickup load of components for most reloaders.

I cast most of my bullets and have a ton of bullet metal on establishment. I have enough primers and powder for the rest of my life put by. If some reloaders cannot, or will not, stock up on components, then they are the real losers. You got to smarten up when local shops stop carrying reloading components.

Adam

[Catfish]

I think that Adam hit the nail on the head. The way things are going now prices going up and down and supplies totally drying for for periods of time, if your giong to reload and shoot alot you better lay in a good supply when you can. I bought 4,000 .22 cal bullets in the last month. I bought 48 lbs. of 1 powder awhile back. When you find a deal stock up. I was talking to the owner of a local gun shop last nite. He`s only been in busness for abt. 2 years now and is struggling but said he had been selling several starting kits to new reloaders. He said with the price of ammo going up he is seeing people starting to reload more. I did buy 2 lb. of powder off of him that I could find no place else. His bullet and primer selection is the best, but his powder selection is out standing, and he can get you most of the things you want the next day with his conections.

[tooldummy]

I didn't have a real good close by shop until about six months ago a new one opened about 7 miles from me. He only does the gun shop thing part time as he works a full time job. But his prices are very reasonable and he is very accomodating. I've started buying all my supplies from him and telling others as I want to see him stay in business. I am thankfull that some of the prices on components seem to have stabilized somewhat from what they were doing a few months ago. But I can't help but wonder what the OSHA regulations I've been hearing about is going to do to our hobby.

[Contenderizer]

Tooldummy suggested that OSHA regulations may have an impact on our hobby. Perhaps so, but a recent decision by the US Supreme Court will definitely change things. At least over time.

The high court has ruled that manufacturers may set the sale price of their goods. The court said that price fixing laws were never intended to prevent a manufacturer from establishing the price for which their products will sell, but only to prevent manufacturers of similar items from getting together and fixing prices. So now, as an example, Lee Precision may tell ALL retailers that they must sell the Lee Factory Crimp Die for $12.98. Period. As a consumer, should you not like the price, you will be forced to buy another product.

This ruling could change the way we shop (provided manufacturers indeed decide to set retail prices). It will definitely impact the big boxes and internet stores - though the big boxes will resist by threatening to drop the product all together.

This ruling is far reaching too. You may soon see the changes when you shop for your next power saw or your next automobile. But what hurts the big guys also helps the mom and pop stores. And. perhaps, that's a good thing.

[Catfish]

Contenderizer,
I don`t think it will mean much it will mean much. The free market is a wonderfull thing. If a manufacture were to say that all retailers had to sell his products at the same price he would put him self out of business. All a competator would have to do would be to let the retailer set his own price on his good and just with the compitation between retailers useing his products as leaders he would soon control the vast share of the market. This would force the first manufacture to change his policy or go out of busniess, and since most companies don`t want to go out of business, ;)

[Contenderizer]

Your point is well made, Catfish. Our free enterprise system is great. But the Supreme Court didn't hear this case without someone first making it.

I think the impact will be felt over time, with high-end products trying to establish themselves as "luxury" products making the move first. Think Rolls Royce, as an example. Other manufactures - of products where demand is greater than supply or where competition is limited - may follow. In this case think Barnes bullets or Green Mountian barrels. Also, don't forget perscription drugs during that time they are still patent protected.

[Rapier]

I would suggest that you guys join a club near you or frequent a range. Get together with the other folks and order your supplies. Example, you can order 8lb containers of powder and split the weight with others, etc. This is the comming thing for the future. In a few years there will be no local shops with reloading supplies.

Our silhouette shooters and clays shooters order supplies by group and it helps to defray costs. We buy shot shells by the bunch and get drop shipment and free freight for orders over 125 flats at which point we throw in all the shot, wads and powder we need. When ordered on the net there is no sales tax as well.
Ed

[wyt_tail]

Originally posted by Contenderizer
The Haz Mat fee is still $20, but they won't mix primers with powder. Each must be shipped in a seperate package with a Haz Mat fee paid on both. If you're working-up a new recipe that requires primers and powder you don't have around the shop, you're looking at $40 in Haz Mat fees when ordering off the internet. That's a sharp stick in the eye that can discourage almost anyone who works for a living. It sure gives me pause about any experimentation.

Powder Valley ships primers and powder together in the same package with one Hazmat fee. That is how I usually buy my supplies. Everything is packaged in seperate boxes within one box and saves on the H/M fee. I am surprised that others don't ship the same way.

[TKO]

I'm having trouble finding powder in my area, and hate ordering it online, but is the way it goes in Ca. The number of outdoors men seems to be declining. I usually try and stock up at gun shows or when I am in a larger city like Sacromento...