Browning A5 recoil versus Benelli SBE

[fabsroman]

Hunting yesterday, I had the misfortune of picking up my dad's A5 for a couple of shots on doves. Three shells to be exact, and I am still picking up my teeth and trying to feel my shoulder and jaw. The recoil on that gun was horrendous compared to my SBE, and I was using the exact same loads in both. I just couldn't believe it. Now, I know why my uncle who shoots his own A5 most of the time, wraps a sock around the buttstock and still ends up with a swollen jaw at the end of the dove opener. I used to think he was a sissy, or he wasn't holding the gun correctly, but now I know better. Sad thing is that this A5 was the first 12 gauge gun that I used on dove hunting and pheasant hunting when I was about 10 years old. Didn't remember it recoiling this bad back then. Then again, it was my first 12 gauge. Killed about a dozen doves and 2 pheasants with it that year, and it was cool to kill 2 doves with it yesterday. Brought back some nostalgia. However, I'll be using my SBE for tomorrow's hunt.

[jmarriott]

The whole barrel moves on an a-5. Different recoil than a SBE. Sounds like both of the a-5 where most likely "Light 12's" also.

[M.T. Pockets]

Fabs, I broke in with an old Ithica model 37 featherweight. I can still clap my shoulder blades. Good thing in Minnesota I was wearing a heavy coat most of the time. I got an Ithica Mag 10 when I was about 14 and it was much less punishing.

[fabsroman]

jmarriott,

I don't think either of them are light 12's. My other uncle, related through marriage, that I used to hunt with, bought one at the same time as my dad and my dad's brother. However, his had a gold trigger. When I asked my dad why Uncle Oscar's had a gold trigger, but not his or my Uncle John's, my dad told me it was because Uncle Oscar's was a lighter model.

By the way, I did happen to know that the entire barrel on the A5 moves with the recoil. I usually push the barrel down some to make it easier to screw on the mag cap after cleaning it. I used that auto for several years before becoming enamoured with o/u's. After shooting o/u's for several years, I found the hump on the A5 a little weird. Hence, the purchase of the SBE. Oh yeah, might have just purchased the SBE because I had that gotta buy a new gun feeling.

[Rapier]

Ha, ha, ha...... the A-5 is just like a 1957 Corvette. At the time it was new, it was great. Now days they just beats the crap outa ya and are hard to keep running.

However, my first shotgun, that I owned, at 14, was a sxs Fox 12 ga gun with a nice "soft" plastic butt plate. I still have the gun. That Fox will make blood blisters. My 1946 A-5 12ga (a gift) is great, compared to the sxs Fox. But, now days, the Browning 525s and Beretta 391s have ruined me. Now I am just an old whimp :D :D The Fox has not been to the field for over 30 years and the A-5, well it has not seen daylight for 4 years.

The A-5 folks are A-5 folks, and around here a fellow could get tared and feathered by bad mouthing the A-5. Cause "its a hard shootin gun." :rolleyes: Yeh, for about 3 boxes of shells, then it starts running on 4 cylinders.
Ed

[Catfish]

I can`t believe you think an A-5 kicks, would you care to shoot my single barrel 12 ga. 3 1/2 in Spanish goose gun????

[fabsroman]

Nah, I think the recoil out of my 3 1/2" SBE is quite enough. Once by accident, I fired a 3 1/2" turkey round while goose hunting and my right hand was numb for quite a while. I cannot imagine what the recoil would be like out of a single shot 3 1/2" gun unless it weighed 10+ pounds. You can keep the Spanish goose gun, which I think should be appropriately named the Spanish human crippling machine invented by friends of the goose population.

[Rapier]

Catfish,
Besides a lamp base, what do you use the Spanish Grand Inquisitor for, could it be a replacement for the rack or the iron maiden? Hows yer fillings?
Ed

[popplecop]

Fabs, What brand of non toxic turkey load were you shooting, when you shot at geese? Most of been non toxic as it is illegal to posses lead lead shot while hunting ducks, geese and swans. I use separate vests for hunting waterfowl and turkeys and still double check my shell supply. A lot of recoil may be the way that particular gun fits also.

[tjwatty]

I know it would be hard for a former officer of the law to believe but sometimes, just sometimes we do make honest mistakes. Shells can get mixed up and I think if I was checking someone I would have to give the benefit of the doubt to a person who had one wrong shell in his box. A full box would be another matter. Some of us can't afford different clothes for all the different hunts. I have an aquaintance who was arrested for having a partial box of 20ga. lead, even though he had a 12ga. gun. He had been quail hunting the day before and had neglected to remove all his shells from his pockets. I personally think that was a little out of bounds and not in the meaning of the law.
Yea, I know all the legal scholars will have a ball with ignorance of the law and all that but really, are the CPO's there to catch those who are blatantly breaking the laws or those that are easy to catch??
I know it's a tough job, but I see so many who love the power more than the job. You don't have to be a jerk, and you don't need to send everyone to jail.
And I'm sure popplecop was one of the good guys....

Sorry, end of my rant....

[Rapier]

TJ,
Every once in a while you run into a nice fella and then every once in a while you run into a pure D butt. 90% of our guys around here are pretty solid guys. They will check you just to make sure you know they are around, then go on about their business. For most folks that is all it takes to keep them on the right path. However, the outlaws, those that we would all like to see get caught, do not learn or pay attention.

They cought a real nice guy a few years back, on the military reservation, across the bay from me. He was stringing shark cable leader with trebble hooks, bated with apples, in the woods. He was selling the meat. There is no game law that could punish that fella with enough years.
Ed

[fabsroman]

Popplecop,

Do you really expect me to answer that question? Come on now, I'm an attorney. LOL The exact load escapes my mind at this time, but, they do make Hevi-Shot turkey loads, which would be non-toxic, and therefore, completely legal to use on waterfowl.

As for the recoil from the gun being because the gun does not fit properly, you must not know me very well after all these years on the board. I am pretty anal about my guns' fit, and make sure that they all fit the same with the exception of my trap gun which I have very little drop at heel on. Now, if you were referring to the recoil from the A-5, that might have been the case because I have never fit that thing to me, but I did pick it up and kill two doves with two shots, and one was at around 50 yards. So, it must fit me somewhat decently. The only two shells I fired out of that gun that day yielded two birds.

As far as game wardens are concerned, I have run into more nice ones that bad ones. We had two come to the field that day, and they were both very nice. One of my dad's friends didn't have his MD migratory bird stamp on his person (i.e., it was in his truck 150 yards away). They went with him to his truck, saw that he actually had the stamp in his truck, and they gave him a warning. I had just arrived at the field and was actually driving right behind the game wardens as they were pulling up the lane. I also had the unsigned permission form on me. So, when I got there, I had the landowner sign the permission form for me. In MD we need to have the signed permission form on our person while hunting. My dad's friend didn't have one and they didn't write him up for that either. They were very nice. Heck, they didn't even check guns to see if they were plugged.

Then there are the gestapo game wardens that do everything but a cavity search. I love those guys.

What happens if it is late dove season and goose season, and a person (i.e., not me because I wouldn't want to make it seem like I did anything like this) put out his decoys for geese and set up his blind, only to find that the doves were flying really well in the early morning? He decides to hunt doves instead of geese because the geese aren't flying, so he goes down to the truck, get a box of 7.5's in lead, and start killing doves about 100 yards from the goose setup. Then, he sees the geese coming so he unloads the gun 100 yards away from the goose setup, runs over to the goose setup and jumps in the blind, loads the gun with non-toxic shells, and hunts geese. Is he guilty of possessing toxic shot while goose hunting if the shells are 100 yards away? How about if he has the shells in the truck? Mind you, they are 7.5's now and could probably only take down a goose if it was a close head shot.

Oh yeah, a lot of people drive 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit too, but I guess that doesn't really matter too much because I never see them getting pulled over.

At the end of the day, I try to obey the law as well as I can, but even though I am an attorney, I do unknowningly make mistakes every once in a while. I think we all do. Heck, in MD I think a game warden could find a reason on almost every stop to write a citation because the game laws here are insane. The only reason my dad and his friends are extremely close to legal all the time is because of me. If I, an attorney, didn't always tell them what the law is, they would be screwed. Before hunting this year, I sat down and read the DNR handbook, and scanned the MD DNR Code book to see if any new laws had been promulgated (i.e., if there was anything new to worry about). Like I said, I try my best.

[tjwatty]

Well, after going back and reading my own crap I must apologize to our former and present CPO's.
90% of the officers I have had the pleasure to meet have been 100% professional at their job. I have never dealt personally with a CPO who didn't treat me properly. (except one) We have a reputation on the river as "the guys who do it right" because we have been checked and go out of our way to be 100% in compliance, and I'm proud of that.
In my local area we have a new CPO who seems to be out to make a name for himself and has rubbed some of us the wrong way. Iguess I should write it up as youthful exsuberance but he has cost aquaintanances money, paying to keep fab's professional brothers working and wasting time in the court system. I have a cousin who's wife is a district judge and she has told me that he's an idiot. When the judges call you that, I don't think your conviction ratio will be too good.
Once again, I am sorry to all the hard working CPO's out there who work, in most part, a thankless job.

[Rapier]

No one mentioned these guys, so thought I might.

About 4 years ago we had been out dove hunting and were on the way back to my buddy's house which was down the road from the field. We were on our 4 wheelers. We were riding off the road and off the right of way, we were legal in FL. I was in the lead and saw out of the corner of my eye a dark blue Jeep Wagoneer, with blacked out glass, kinda keeping pace with me, up on the paved road. So, I looked over and saw nothing, no shield, no sign, no lights, nothing. I increased my speed and the Jeep increased speed for about 100 yards, then the carnival came to town, the whole inside of the Jeep lit up with blue lights. I stopped as did my buddy behind me. The Jeep pulled off the road and came down the embankment towards us. When the Jeep stopped next to me, out stepped a young fellow dressed in Levis, a white Polo shirt, wearing a duty belt and a gun, no badge or uniform. Out came a wallet with a large badge, just about the time the fella says "I am John XX and I am the Federal Game Warden for this district, I would like to check your birds." His district turned out to be 11 counties.

That was the first time in my life I have ever even heard of a Federal Game Warden, much less seen one. We had no violations, or so we thought. My buddy had a little young dove in his trash bag that his wife had shot, but was to small to eat. That young dove turned out to be a little dove species that is on the federal list of prohibited birds. My buddy upon being told it was a prohibited bird says to the fella, If I had know it was a prohibited bird, I would not have brought it out of the field with me, which made perfect sense, so he was allowed to go on. However, he was told that the little dove was a $500 bird. Later I was told by two hunters that our Federal Warden had cought them in violation and was real tough on them.

Moral to the story: Do not shoot a little dove by accident and if you run into a guy in the field or on the shore (they do migratory birds), wearing a gun and looking like a cop out of uniform, he probably is a Fed. If you get on his wrong side, you get to meet a Federal judge, which might get real unplesant.
Ed

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Sorry to say Fabs but I am very puzzled by your comments on the Browning Auto 5. You see I have just acquired on of 1954 vintage with 25" barrel. As it had to be restricted to hold only two shots in the magazine so it falls into the Shotgun laws, if it still held 5 rounds it would be a firearm and so more restrictive regulations. It has taken several weeks to actually get my hands on it. Anyway the other day I fired it for the first time and brought down a high flying Crow.

Now I cannot say that I really felt any recoil :confused: I was more surprised by the sound of the gun the report seemed muted and the clacking sound of the action working was noticable. As yet I have not had the chance to try it again and want to try it on a doubles. If the Pigeons or Crows don't co-operate I will have to try and get over to shoot some clays with it.

[skeet]

Shooting an A-5 is an experience. I literally wore one out way back yonder in time. Didn't think they kicked too bad till I got an 1100. I continued to shoot the B gun and then after rebuilding it for the 3rd time I traded it on a nice M-12 Trap with Hydrocoil stock that I wore out(the Hydrocoil stock) in 2 seasons of ducking. It was a great gun to shoot diving ducks with from a booby blind. Stick it on their feet and ya can't miss. The a-5 does have a lot more recoil than other autos just because of the unique action. An easy gun to hit with though in my opinion.

Now to the Federal Wardens thing. As you may know i was a guide for waterfowlers in Md for a long time(33 yrs). I met wardens professionally at least once a week for 3 months of the year and also for a month in Sept while taking hunters doving or shooting them with my friends. We hunted doves 4-5 days a week and we all grew sunflowers on our farms. We got to meet the Federal wardens quite a bit. On one GREAT dove hunting day we got checked by the wardens and were found to be completely legal. We had so many birds in a field of sunflowers they thought we were baiting. In 12 acres of sunflowers we had more than 20,000 doves according to their estimates. When they checked me i was just getting done. Knowing the warden somewhat i offered him my gun...which after a little coaxing he accepted and he shot a limit of doves in very short order...as did his partner. We went up to the farm house ...got out the soft drinks and iced watermelon and had a little party. Those guys were really decent and I always got along with them. They even made suggestions to us to make our hunting even more lawful. We listened. One later bercame the Head federal man for the Mid Atlantic and He was easy to work with. They knew us to be law abiding hunters and treated us with respect...

However some of their colleagues were nasty abrasive and just looked for a way to charge you with little nit picking charges. I was at home one day when I had a large amount of snow geese get into the corn field. Chased most of the canadas out(snows aren't civilised ya know). Well my daughter and I got in the truck and rode out into the field and chased the snows out.30,000 snow geese make a lot of noise ya know. Before I got out of the field and back to the house this guy in an unmarked car came up in front of me(on my own land) and jumped out of his car with drawn gun and told me to get out of the truck. He accused us of shooting into the geese(illegal) to chase them out. I was somewhat annoyed to have a gun stuck in my face and told the warden in no uncertain terms that if he didn't put it away I was gonna shove it down his throat so far they would have to extract it through his other end. Asked him what the H he thought he was doing. I also thought he was gonna shoot me because I was Pi$$ed Badly so. After i got calmed down just a little I let him look in the truck(no guns)..got his name and called his supervisor,,,a man I had lent a gun to in years past to shoot doves. The idiot got transferred to Loosianna. He mighta got killed down there. I had dealings with Willie Parker and others and most of the Feds were not fun to deal with. I know of one who arrested his own brother for shooting geese over bait. They found 11 grains of corn in the field. I doubt they were baiting but they bagged 'em up for it anyway. Good and bad in all of 'em but the state guys were usually easier to deal with and more reasonable

[fabsroman]

Brithunter,

I still stand behind my comparison. After shooting the Benelli earlier, and then picking up the A-5 to shoot it, I was extremely surprised by the recoil. Now, if memory serves me correctly, I did knock down 2 birds with 2 shots out of it, but my jaw was left a little hurting. Now, to make things somewhat fair, I do have a mercury recoil reducer in the stock of my SBE, and also in my Beretta Teknys. I am also a smaller guy than most at 5'8" and 142 lbs right now (i.e., did a lot of cycling over the summer to drop 15+ lbs.).

Maybe you are the kind of guy that just doesn't feel recoil, but I'm not. I can notice the slightest difference in recoil from guns, and so can my back. On the other hand, maybe if you shot my Benelli all day and then picked up my dad's A-5, you too might notice the difference in recoil. What other auto shotguns have you shot?

I know you have shot a ton of rifles, and some pretty big ones at that too. Maybe the recoil from a 12 gauge just doesn't compare.

[popplecop]

Fabs, Just funning you about non tox. I shoot 2 recoil operated shotguns at times, 1 a Rem. 11-48 16 ga. and the other a Browning Sweet 16. The Rem. seems to have less felt recoil than the Browning, yet I shoot them equally well. Neither have recoil pads and never will. I'll say one thing as I get older I am more aware of recoil though.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Well Fabs although I am about the same height as you at about 5'8"-5'9" but I outweigh you by a considerable amount as I weigh 220lbs, heck I weighed about teh same as you before I left school at just over 16 years old, those days I had a 29" waist. As for recoil I bruise easliy it seems as often I come home from the range with a bruise even from shooting .308 or .303. I do have a rifle in .458 Win mag as well which I do shoto occasionally. Prone it's not so much fun.

As for auto shotguns I have shot a few, a friend had a winchester 1400 then his girfriend got a Breda which is similar to the Berretta 303, have also shot the Franchi Spas which I thought was awful. Finally have shot several remington 1100's as I was interested and took part in Practical Shotgun quite a few years ago I used a Mossberg Slugster with 24" barrel and rifle sights.

Now the Browning A-5 and the old Franchi Hunter have always interested me but until now I have never acquired one, hey it's only taken 32 years! So I have not had very much experieince with semi auto shotguns.

[fabsroman]

When I got out of high school 18 years ago, I weighed 125 pounds and had a 29" waist. Now, I weight 142 pounds and have a 30" waist, but that is after 3,000+ miles on the bicycle this past year. Before that, I was 158 pounds with a 32" waist. When I saw 158 on the scale, that was enough to get me back on the bike.

[Brithunter]

Yeah Fabs I need to lose some and get fitter have a cycle but find it is painfull on the knees, you see I had arthritus in both of them. So I have to make do with a bit of gardening and walking.

[fabsroman]

Use smaller gears on the bike and it won't hurt your knees as much. Walking and jogging beat up the knees, but cycling doesn't because there isn't any impact. Trust me, my left knee gives me problems sometimes, and cycling has been much better on it than walking or running.

[Brithunter]

Actually I don't find walking a problem, never did much jogging tried to years ago but I was never any good at running even at school, could walk for miles. Hiked quite a bit with the Scouts and Army Cadets in my teens. Now cycling should be good here as it's fairly flat being on the edge of the fens however the darne d wind never seems to stop. This morning after a sharp frost it's now rainign with wind, the rain is nearly horizontal I guess it's coming in at about 30 degrees from the floor anf from West South West and is forecast to get up to around 30mph today. Not good cycling weather.

My cycle is a alloy framed "Mountain" type with 18 gears and a front puncture which needs to be fixed :( had it some years now and have had trouble with the downshift on hills. It don;t want to but as there are no hills close that should no longer be a problem. Only been here just over two years.

[fabsroman]

There should be a little barrel near the rear derailleur. Play with that to get the shifting just right. That barrel adjusts the indexed shifting to make the bike shift right. Try turning it one way first, If that fixes the problem, good. If the problem gets worse, just turn it the opposite way. I can post a pic of what the barrel looks like if you don't know what I am talking about.

[Brithunter]

Hi Fabs,

It's the front triple spocket which is the problem not the rear :( I will probably have the boys at Cycle Hut take a look at it, might even get them to fit a new front tube and give the whole thing the once over, need new batteries in teh front light as well. Sort of winter service.

Anyway for now I can just pump up the front yre and use ti as it take several days to go down.

This morning it's quite bright virtually no wind so in a little while I will heading to the range. Got some 6mm rem loads to test and I think I will take the Browning A-5 and see if we cannot get the trap out ;) Will also try a decide what choke it has in the barrel (Fixed).

Will report back later as one shot is not really enough to base anything on.

[fabsroman]

Looking forward to the follow up report.

Don't know if I mentioned this above, but my uncle at 6'1" and around 230 shoots an A-5 as his main shotgun, and his jaw always ends up swollen the first day of dove season. At first, I though he was a pansy, but after those 2 rounds out of my dad's A-5, I think I would be in the same shape if I had to spend an entire day shooting it.

[skeet]

Well I shot the heck out of an A-5 for years. Literally put a quarter of a million shells through one and never got beat up all that bad. I was about 6 ft and 170 at the time. But as I said the A-5 was nowhere near as pleasant to shoot as a Rem 1100. Must say one of the nastiest shotguns i ever shot was a Mossberg 835. Just pounded ya with them 3 1/2 inch shells..especially lead shells. I also had a Mercury 10 ga double way back there. It was about a 12 lb gun and it still wasn't much fun to shoot. Doubled once on me and it went down the road in a hurry. That hurt!!:D :eek:

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Well I went to the range but it seems that some members used up all the clays and didn't tell anyone so no clay shooting. I will have to wait until the next time which will most likely be in two weeks now due to having to cut back on trips because of the horrendus fule prices now.

[gun_nut2]

I have never expierenced any discomfort shooting my A 5's, but am not very recoil sensative. I guess it has something to do with being 6'5" and 270 pounds.