Getting ready for the Traditional Flintlock (PA) Deer Season.

[Adam Helmer]

December 26, 2007 until January 12, 2008 is the PA Traditional Flintlock deer season. This is my favorite hunting season. We do not have to wear flourescent orange, there are very few other hunters afield and the big woods are quiet. I hope we have enough snow this year so I can hunt on my Alaskan snowshoes.

My favorite rifle is a .54 caliber Hawken flintlock stoked with patched ball ahead of 75 grains of 3F Goex. That is the accuracy load and good enough for deer. I wear my circa 1756 (French & Indian War) garb complete with sash and 'hawk. This part of PA was the Frontier in 1756. A nice heavy snowfall completes the picture for a long trek afield in the woods hereabouts. This old farm abuts 969 acres of water company woods that abuts 13, 300 acres of State Game Lands #37. One can walk a long time in search of solitude.

Do any other states have "FLINTLOCK ONLY" deer seasons today?

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Do any other states have "FLINTLOCK ONLY" deer seasons today?

Unfortunately, Michigan does not....while most agree that when Michigan started it's 'muzzleloading' season back in 1975, the intent was for it to be a primative season; now it's a bastardization of in-lines, sabots, pellets, and probably (soon to be) smokeless powder.:(

[skeet]

Although I hope you really enjoy your season ...especially not having to wear the orange etc...I really don't see a necessity for a flinter only season. Don't see the big difference between all the muzzleloaders myself. Gotta load 'em all from the front. But I think maybe they should not allow scopes in a primitive hunt. Keeps people from shooting the long distances that they think they can. I shot almost all my muzzleloader deer with a T-C Hawken 50 with 100gr FFFg and a roundball. Kept the shooting under 80-90 yds and they killed very effectively. People don't have the traditionalist feelings that they used to have. They see the muzzy season as another hunting opportunity(a really good thing). I do not hold that against them though. And if the ultra traditionalist wants to hunt as you do....I don't hold that against him either.

I hope ya get ol' BIG BUCK this season, Adam! Keep yer powder dry!:D Hope ya have some tracking snow too. That is one of the fun things in the late deer seasons. Tracking snow!

[Swift]

I'm ready Adam! :D

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

I am hoping for deep snow so I can snowshoe in the woods. Is your .50 T/C Hawken a flintlock?

The muzzleloaders all load from the front, but the difference in reliability pretty much ends there. The flint needs to be sharp and tight and dry, the pan needs to retain the pan powder and there is the possibility of a "flash in the pan" not experienced with a percussion cap or a 209 shotgun primer. I own and shoot all three and the flinter is the wild card in the deck. The Matchlock also loaded from the front, but not many folks would consider them as reliable as a flint or caplock or inline.

Circa 1825, the British Army tested the Brown Bess flinter against the caplock Brown Bess at Aldershot Barracks to see if they were going to adopt the caplock for their military. The flinter had about 65% reliability versus 98% with the percussion cap for 500 rounds fired through each. Guess which firing system the Brits adopted? So, both loaded from the muzzle alright, but both did not deliver at the same rate of reliability and that still is true today.

I read recently that the new muzzleloader hunters buy percussion cap or 209 primer ignition arms by a ratio of 99% to 1% for flintlocks. Many new muzzleloaders are not interested in the care and feeding of a flinter and its inheirent "fussyness" to keep firing, or its failure to fire just when most needed.

Adam

[Jack]

I can't claim to have done a thorough survey, but I believe Pennsylvania is in a small minority of states that mandates the use of flintlock ignition in traditional ML season. Most other states allow caplocks.
Pennsylvania seems to me to have some unique regulations, compared to most states- making semi autos illegal for hunting being one such example.

[skeet]

I haven't ever used snowshoes to hunt with. I have however used them. The first time I did I thought my legs and other things were gonna fall off, You do learn the right gait with tham after a while though. Some of my most fun deer hunting was in the snow with muzzys and shotguns. Never had to rely on the snow to find a wounded deer either. All but one muzzy deer fell within 25 yds. A couple right on the spot. I had a flinter for a while...and the reason I went to a caplock was the reliability. Just didn't have the patience to worry about the flint fired rifle. Heck the caplock was bad enough as we used to have a lot of rain to hunt in..and if not rain..swamps. You had to be very careful hunting them. I had a failure to fire on one of the biggest bucks I ever had the opportunity to take. The cap failed to fire(rain) but luckily as the deer ran off I was able to pull the old cap off and put a dry one on. The god of the hunt must have been smiling on me that day. I whistled..he stopped and stayed.

Understand.... the muzzy season was another week to hunt deer for me. We lived on the meat and it was kind of important to have a rifle that would fire. I also have a Savage smokless muzzy and it is very reliable and a whole lot easier to clean after shooting. Haven't taken a deer with it but have had the opportunity a few times. Just never shot one though. To be really honest with ya I think the flinter was the quickest for me to fire twice. Especially if the cap became stuck as they sometimes do. The first deer I got with a muzzleloader I shot at 3 times. He ran and stopped ran and stopped(thick woods). Had a few friends in Md that went to the flinter after getting their deer for a couple of years with a caplock or inline...just for the experience I guess. To be honest I don't really care what someone uses as long as we have more people enjoying the hunt. We need to recruit more kids and women into our ranks..Hunting and shooting ranks I mean. Anyone that becomes a hunter is important to the sport any more. Only 5% of the population hunts now.

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer
December 26, 2007 until January 12, 2008 is the PA Traditional Flintlock deer season. This is my favorite hunting season. We do not have to wear flourescent orange, there are very few other hunters afield and the big woods are quiet.

Dittos.
I've been ready since last year and even have off on opening day. :cool: (same for first day of buck season too when I'll be using a SMLE No1MkIII) :p
My 54cal early Lancaster Pa Longrifle will be used this time out and the Brown Bess will have to wait for spring turkey...

[Adam Helmer]

Jack,

A friend working at T/C told that if it were not for the PA Traditional Flintlock season, probably only custom gunmakers would still be making flintlocks in 2007.

Skinny,

I am glad you will use a No.1 Mk III opening day of rifle deer. I will have my Mk III out that day as well.

Adam

[rattus58]

Adam,

I'm amazed at how sensitive you are. You make comments that a flintlock is 65% reliable TODAY... you did not seem to want to clarify this, and instead of debating this, you pull a post because you can't take a joke. No wonder this muzzleloader thread has such a dismal showing.

[Adam Helmer]

rattus58,

Your humor is known only to yourself; maybe you are the dismal showing here!

The 65% reliability factor of flintlocks was determined about 1825 at Aldershot Barracks in England. I cannot defend a test I had no part in. No, I will not debate this because I did not participate in the test and have no need to debate.

If debate is what you want, perhaps this is not your site.

I moderate this site when inappropriate posts pop up. Civil and constructive posts are always welcome. Why do you NEED to debate? We do not need debate here; discussion is welcome. Be well.

Adam

[skeet]

I was talking to an industry rep a few years back and he told me the flinters of today(especially the TC) has a very good reliability rate..mainly because of the steel used in the newer flinters and the quality of the flints available. He said the reilability factor was approaching 95%....but of course in good weather. I was amazed at that number. He also said that some of the foreign made replicas were not any better than guns of the past. He also said that high number was in the hands of modern day experts..which I am not!! And doubt I could ever be.:D

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Sure, you are an expert.

At the bench my flinters are some days Very Good and some days "fussy." We all get an occasional "flash in the pan" even though we ran a piece of wire into the touch hole before priming the pan. We all fire along in fine fettle and then a "Clunk" of the flint on the frizzen and no spark. The flint got dull or the frizzen needed to be "freshened" to produce more sparks.

Now, if we add in a rainy or windy day, the odds go up against us.
I would estimate (NOT debate) that my flinters are in the 75% to 85% reliability range on good days. I have never read that flinters had 100% reliability even when serviced by experts because of the many variables in the equation. That is what makes flinters fun.

Adam

[skeet]

I found early on it seemed to matter an awful lot where the powder was in the pan too. An old fellow told me to cock the gun to the left and give the left side of the gun a little rap with the heel of the palm. It got the powder next to the touch hole he said. I don't know?! I had good reliability with my flinter at the bench..in the field..probably no better than the Brits waaayy back in 1825. And it seems the best hunting is in inclement weather...duh!!:D Oh and believe me..I am not an expert on muzzleloaders for sure...Autoloaders maybe!!:D

[rattus58]

Adam,

There is no learning without discussion. As far as my sense of humor goes, I love it, so does my dog, why else would he hang around if not for my exquisite appreciation for the absurd.

I don't know who you think comes to these pages, but what I was hoping you'd say, was actually just as skeet said, reliability with flintlocks in my VERY LIMITED experience is much better than 65%. I have green mountain barrels and siler locks with stainless steel inserts to the breech, and a bunch of flints from Track of the Wolf. I get better than 8/10 now that I've had a few months to play with it, and have no compunctions now of hunting with it anywhere, though we've not had the opportunity yet.

Aloha.... :cool:

[Adam Helmer]

rattus58,

If you read my prior post, I told Swift that I get 75% to 85% reliability in my flinters. So we agree that is better than the circa 1825 test and still far below percussion cap reliability.

Adam

[BILLY D.]

Hey skeet

RMC Sports in Pa. sells a little gizwicket called a Cap Guard for cap locks. Works slick.

It's a small piece of clear plastic tubing you slide over the cap after loading. totally waterproofs the cap. Also keeps it in place.

They have them pictured on their web site.

Caution, the site can become addictive.

Bill

[rattus58]

Yes Adam you did, finally, after tossing my post.

What is wrong with debate Adam? Debate and discussion is how we learn.

Aloha... :cool:

[skeet]

I saw that they have those things for the caps etc. Was just looking at my ol TC Hawken yesterday. Still in great shape but I still probably won't use it anymore. Even though it doesn't rain in Wyoming much. All kinds of neat gear on that site. I have to stay away from more gear.

Rattus..I'm sorry to have to say this but it doesn't seem as though you want debate as much as argument. . Let it go man! We come here to have fun..not arguments. At least I do.

[rattus58]

what am I arguing skeet? What am I debating. I like discussion. I like to be able to come to a site and see a plethora of ideas on a particular subject if for no other reason than for the intererest I have in other peoples opinions.

And what do I have to let go. Aparently here, my opinion has to CONFORM or you get tossed. You tell me skeet.... :) I'm sure you've visited other muzzleloader sites and see what's going on there on the traditional side.. so figure it out yourself.

Aloha.... :cool:

[skeet]

Just in case you didn't know it is apparent that you are not a conformer. Noone asks you to conform.. Just let the argument go. I like debate as much or more than the other guy. But as I said..you are not debating.You are arguing..and I am not going to address the issue any more... Adam answered your protest.

Now i would like to ask a question. What do you hunt in Hawaii..and where? Is it hard to find places to hunt? Knowing next to nothing of Hawaii other than a few things I have been told in the past

[rattus58]

Hunting in Hawaii is pretty diverse, with year round seasons for some animals, regulated seasons for others in specific areas/islands.

The most popular hunting is for pigs, usually with dogs or traps or snares in urban areas where they have now started to infiltrate. Goats are another year round, in many areas, animal that can be hunted, as are sheep.

Axis deer on Molokai and Maui are hunted relentlessly. On Lanai they are hunted by lottery, 1 day hunt per year, one animal usually either sex, and some wonder why we seem unimpressed with much of the arguments here about shortened seasons, this and that, we get one day and still love the hunt. Kauai has the most liberal deer hunting for blacktail deer in the islands. You can actually have several cracks at deer on Kauai during the year, but its not a gallery shoot by any means.

We have two types of sheep in Hawaii, feral wooley sheep and the mouflon. The feral have horns that can get quite impressive and extend outwards in corkscrew fashion, and the mouflon develops large horns as well in Big Horn Fasion (same genus). Compared to your mainland Big Horn sheep of ANY variety, the Mouflon is quite a bit smaller, but still very nice rack.

Most all of my hunting is for sheep or pigs in open areas at home, and deer and goats away from home. I do a lot of archery hunting at home, and muzzleloader away from home mostly.

Turkeys are popular for a few during the spring where they have 45 days straight with up to three tags from March 1 to April 14th.

Aloha.... :cool:

[skeet]

How do you find access to the private property for hunting? Is it very easy to get permission to hunt? Lots of other questions about hunting in Hawaii. The Regs in Wyoming are so fragmented it is unbelievable..but the area is so diverse I guess I can understand all the zones etc. The wolves and grizzlies are getting to be too numerous and are NOT afraid of people. An area close to home is having a draw Bighorn hunt next year and I am applying for the hunt..but the chances are pretty slim I think

[rattus58]

There is very little hunting on private property for most people. Most of it if it is on private property is a pay hunt. Most hunting is on State land. You have to remember that they are trying to eradicate all game animals from Hawaii.

I'm part of a group simplifying the rules for Hawaii as we speak.

Aloha... :cool: