walmart/guns

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Wal-Mart to Pay $14.5 Million for California Gun Law Violations
June 5, 2004
Wal-Mart will pay more than $14 million to settle charges that it committed thousands of violations of California state gun safety laws between 2000 and 2003, including selling ammunition to minors and selling firearms to convicted felons.

California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said that under the settlement, Wal-Mart will pay $5 million in fines, submit to court-enforced compliance with all gun laws, and provide more than $4 million to fund state compliance checks, prevent the sale of ammunition to minors and educate the public on gun laws.


I bet this had lots to do with them removing guns for sale at all those other stores the rest of us shop at.....another California move that gets in everyone elses way.

[fabsroman]

The sale of guns is something that requires responsibility, and not everybody should be doing it. The last time I went to the Wal-Mart sporting section was to get a fishing license. I pretty much had to show the guy how to enter my information in the DNR computer. Then, I had to show him how to print out the license. Then, I had to show him how to charge me for it. Now, should a guy like this really be selling firearms and ammunition over the counter? Should he really be doing a NICS check? I am all for us being able to legally buy guns, but I don't think we should sacrifice the safety of society as a whole by letting firearms get into the hands of minors or convicted felons. If Wal-Mart cannot hire responsible individuals to deal with firearms sales, then they shouldn't be selling them.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Now what about these same people getting our credit card numbers, ssi numbers etc etc?..They need ssi numbers now to do your fishing license etc now in Pa.Online or in store....My daughter had her school (account) money taken from a gas station employee a while ago but I got that back for her..He used her card info to take money from her account. I just posted a few min ago about a pet shopping scam on the web already.....can't trust anyone but you are right about them not having proper people tending to these important matters....guess that is why the rest of us end up paying for it in the end.

[jmarriott]

I think i mentioned this before.

WAL-MART is evil.

[fabsroman]

Skeeter,

We aren't necessarily paying for it in the end. The way I view it, this just ensures that the small gun shops will stay in business if K-Mart and Wal-Mart are no longer selling guns. Most department stores have gone this route anyway. Sears used to sell guns, but that stopped a long time ago. Can you honestly say that the employees on the floor at Sears are any better than Wal-Mart.

It is kind of like taking your car to a Jiffy-Lube to see some 18 year old kid changing your oil and using a 24 inch long wrench to tighten your oil plug. Sometimes, it is just better to go somewhere else.

A gun is a serious item, kind of like a law suit or spinal surgery. I never have bought a gun from Wal-Mart or K-Mart, and I seriously doubt I ever will. However, I have bought plenty of ammo and hunting clothing from both stores.

[jplonghunter]

fabs

Good post,did you get consulting fee from Wal-mart for trainning their employee? :D

jplonghunter

[fabsroman]

I only wish I could have billed them for my time. Not only did I have to show the guy what to do, but I had to wait 10 minutes for somebody to come back there and help me out. Honestly, the best thing at Wal-Mart are the self checkout lanes.

I even had to help the people waiting behind me in line. They wanted fishing licenses but had no idea that the 8 year old boy didn't need one. In Maryland, freshwater fishing licenses are not needed by anybody under the age of 16. Saved them a couple of dollars before I left the store.

Wal-Mart also has an automotive side for installing, tires, batteries, etc., and I bet they would even do a tune up. Do you think I want those guys installing a battery in my car. Next thing you know, they would put the negative cable to the positive lead and the positive cable to the negative lead and fry my electrical system. That would be followed by months of them trying to actually fix the car's electrical system. No thanks. I'll install my own battery. Just please keep the shelves stocked and change most of the checkout lanes to self checkout. Then again, the majority of Wal-Mart shoppers probably don't know how to use self checkout. Isn't life complicated.

[skeet]

Personally I don't think Wally world is evil. To be honest..if they weren't out here in Wyoming the price of groceries etc would be off the wall. They do bring a little sanity to the local grocery stores. As to their sales policies on guns etc the local stores are pretty good. The manger has to do the NICS checks etc. But this is a gun friendly area. As far as California suing Wally World...well hell the things that they either neglected to do or didn't do correctly were all Federal (crimes?)miscues. Seems to me that Calipornia just wanted to go pick on the big boy on the block. Probably in Wally's best interest to settle with the state rather than face Federal investigators. Probably shut down all gun sales at Wally World in the land of Fruits and Nutz! I know it did in quite a few other areas. With all the things going on in this country in the last few weeks or so...I feel we'll be lucky to retain our guns after the next election. All the more reason to have a hide-e-hole or two. Look at what Illinois is attempting to do to the gun owning, buying and selling public! Check with the NRA ILA updates. It surely ain't pretty. Personally I would reather deal with a small locally owned gun shop than one of the larger chains like Dicks or even Bass Pro. Much better service and knowledge;)

[multibeard]

Originally posted by skeeter@ccia.com
Now what about these same people getting our credit card numbers, ssi numbers etc etc?..They need ssi numbers now to do your fishing license etc now in Pa.Online or in store

That is pure Bullllll. In Micihgan they use Driver Licence numbers to purchase licences. If you don't have a DL you buy a DNR ID card for a buck.

Soem one needs to get the SS numbers requirement. I don't even carry my SS card any more for fear of some one getting ahold of the ##S

As far as Wally World goes I plain do not shop there.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Yes in Pa in order to get a fishing license you need to do the ssn once...they say that way they can find people that are child support violators. Funny thing about that is when my brothers wife left the family she was made to pay now get this..support of $5 each for the 2 sons 9 and 5. Brother never got a cent and when he checked into it he was told he had to show his fed tax return because he might owe her money...lmao..they said it was a violation of her rights if they use her driver license to find her and press charges for not paying child support...but...but you must show your ssn or can't get a fishing license in pa and I can't remember if the hunting license was the same way or not...It has been argued others can read your number at the counter while they are writing yours in...so what are you to do?....Even if buy license online through the fish comm...still need the number..once they say...oh and the election thing and our guns, what I see is this...you must show proof you have a gun 'safe' not cabinet or be required to keep it in an 'armory' and what I see a good thing to get into in the future is maybe an old meat locker 'safe' you can charge to store guns in...hummm...and I see this too..they will say anyone that has any kind of violation against them or arrest...(even DUI) will not be able to own or buy a gun..and I think that is one reason they have came down so hard on DUI even if you are driving a lawnmower or riding a bicycle or horse..lets watch and see...

[fabsroman]

Skeeter,

They are not coming down hard on DUI's as part of a gun issue. The two are completely separate. Do you have any idea how many people die in auto accidents a year? It is over 40,000. I don't know the statistics of how many are alcohol related, but I'm sure there are a decent amount.

Me, I had a client that was hit by a drunk driver and she was almost killed. She was in a coma for 3 days and the ICU for 7 days. It took her a year to get back to work, and even then she was still suffering from headaches and she was on two drugs for it. It was his 4th offense and the judge only gave him 10 months, with 6 months of work release. Maybe, just maybe, I might have been able to understand it if it was his first offense and he almost killed somebody, but it was his 4th and he obviously didn't learn from the previous 3.

I have an ex-client that just went through his 3rd DUI and he served all of a week. Last week, he pled guilty to driving without a license for his 4th time, and he got probation. So, does it really matter if people lose their license for DUI's?

With all that said, you can bet that I wouldn't be giving out my social security number for a hunting or fishing license. Heck, I don't even need to give it out to get my driver's license.

Skeeter, you should really check with the SSA to see when somebody, something, or a governmental agency can request your social security number. I would guess that this has a lot of issues with the privacy laws.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Yes Fabs I agree to the DUI issue and something had to be done. I also had been involved in a head-on years ago by a DD..Back when I was only 17 and the funny thing about it was the guy that hit me was the father of my friends girlfriend that we were on our way to pick up...I am against them saying a person is driving drunk when in fact you are sleeping in the backseat in the woods...(got drunk while there)...that is not driving..you just have to remember to toss your keys..outside the car..outside the car is the point there..I am against drinking and driving..you can do what ever one you want but don't do it at the same time...my point is just like this past June on our Canadian border crossing, a fellow that had a DUI on his record 30 years ago was not able to cross the border...hummm...that is what I mean by a mark on our record..any mark at all....is what they will be looking for..he told the lady he had nothing on his record but when she checked, it showed up and Judge Judy must work borders on her day off tv..wow..I felt sorry for this guy for 'lying' to her..ouch..I am not saying they are going to do this 'mark on record' thing but it would not surprise me...and....don't drink and drive this holiday either......I use to drink years ago..CDL was one reason to quit..just got tired of making a butthead out of myself to those that didn't drink..for another...(ok to do when the others are just as drunk..they don't know the difference)......so anyhow, enjoy the holiday...if have a beer, stay home.....as for the license..I don't know what to say...they won't give you one if you don't provide the ssn....???>..time to contact reps I guess...but they are the one that signed this into law...????

[Jack]

"just like this past June on our Canadian border crossing, a fellow that had a DUI on his record 30 years ago was not able to cross the border"
Welcome to the Department of Homeland Security.:(

[Nulle]

I guess I will still shop at Wally World or at least price compare.
The ones in this area still have guns as appears that they have always completed the standard form and NCIC checks.

[RagingBullPa]

good old Walmart if my sister-in-law didn't work there i wouldn't waste my time in the dump, since they first moved into the Wilkes-Barre area a few years ago they have up sized to a super store , and they quality of the sport goods and its clerks has fallen way down, i don't buy anyhunting products wehatever from Walmart Or Kmart , i had an incident at Walmart during Turkey season , i needed new camo i tore my outfit crossing a fence the first day here in Pa went to walmart no camo out and i was told its not hunting season , i politlely informed the clerk in fact it was Spring gobbler season ,, and was told all our camo is put away too bad, after writing a letter to Walmarts PRESIDENT AND INFORMING HIM OF HIS EMPLOYEESACTIONS I GOT SEVERRAL CALLS AND APOLOGIES FROM THEM , but i told them too late you lost an entire family of hunter and fisherman i'll go to Dicks or our local stores for my sporting goods, in fact when i go to the Walmart i get nasdty looks from the clerks in the Sporting goods as i calmy walk past with my wife , sorry people piss me off once you lose a customer for life

[DON WALKUP]

if the state of california has any more say in any thing gun related, the gun community is in deeeeep trouble.

wal-mart, k-mart, sears, montgomery ward, western auto all used to sell firearms...i purchased firearms and ammo from all of them at one time or another.

MHO is i DO NOT TRUST legislators when it comes to the second amendment or firearms ownership...there are very, very few that are trustworthy when it comes to the firearms issue.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

So the big question. If and when they say everyone has to turn in their firearms by a certain date, are we going to just plain ole refuse this order?....I know if only a few stand up they will be hung but what now if we all just say....NO.???.....maybe that is what we need to start doing. Here in Pa they passed a drink tax in the city of Pittsburgh that will raise about 30 million for them to play with. Bar owners are all upset...people that go to the bars are upset...so what if they all just said it is not a federal tax and we just refuse to collect or pay it? Does anyone think NUMBERS still speak?......like the NRA?...
ok the answer is..most will just say, I'm not getting involved and will just pay the tax or hand over their guns and just cry to each other about it.. Hurray for me and f??? everyone else. Follow the rest of the flock.

[skeet]

I think not! The worst thing that can happen is they will kill me taking them away. None of us will get out of this life alive ya know? Living under the type of system you portray isn't living! So I think I will go out fighting. This is one of the reasons I did not want the Supreme's to take the DC gun case. I do not trust the people we have in the Court to vote the Constitution. I am afraid they will vote their political views...which I do not trust!!:rolleyes: In my opinion the constitution is unequivocal..It is an individual right to have arms:confused: ?? I'm not confused. I truly think I am right!

[fabsroman]

The funny thing about the law is that it can get bent by the Court almost at will. It is utterly nuts. If the Supreme Court rules against the 2nd Amendment case being for the individual right to bear arms, I think Congress should propose an Amendment to the Constitution to let the people vote on whether or not the right to bear arms should be extended to individuals. Let the people speak on the matter, in mass. Granted, it takes a lot more than a majority to pass an Amendment to the Constitution, but somehow I think this Amendment might just pass.

At the end of the day, I am hoping that the Supreme Court will uphold the DC decision, that this entire 2nd Amendment issue will become a non-issue, and that will be the end of it. Then, we can concentrate on bigger issues than gun control.

I wonder for how long the 2nd Amendment has actually been an issue in this country's 230 year existence? I'm guessing that it has only recently become an issue or we would have plenty of case law from the late 1700's, early 1800's that would have put this matter to rest a long time ago, when the meaning/intent of the founding fathers was actually known, and some of the founding fathers were still living and breathing.

[skeet]

The 2nd amendment has been in the courts quite a few times and it has always portrayed the 2nd as an individual right per se. The cases that have been heard have always been very specific though. The last big time court hearing on guns etc was Miller in the 30's. The thing that was decided then was that the 2nd did not apply to sawed off shotguns and the court decided that the right to own a sawed off shotgun was not intended by the 2nd Amendment. The Feds then considered the sawed off shotgun to be a banned weapon because of the 33?? gun control act that banned the ownership of machine guns and other such things as sawed off shotguns and hand grenades ...THAT WERE NOT REGISTERED. The government wanted control of arms that had been used by the mobs of those times. Even at that time the ability to buy explosives was not very regulated. Heck until about 1975 you could buy dynamite even in Maryland pretty darn easily. Unhappily the government has really tightened the availability of any kinds of explosives..(check the newest controls on Black powder) So what I needed to blow stumps etc I manufactured myself. Heck years ago my cousin and I even made some crude nitro. Got in REAL trouble when my uncles outhouse(not in use for quite some time) kinda ..sorta..disappeared one hot afternoon. Not a good evening when he got home...bout a 1/2 hour later. I just don't trust the court to vote constitionally!