Problems still witht eh 6mm P-H

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Got the bedding done and this rifle still won't shoot well :confused: so on someones suggestion I checked the crown using a cotton bud. It seemed to snag a bit, the barrel has a Recessed Target crown, ot rather had because I used a hand countersink and did a countersink to the bottom of the grooves and smoothed it out.

I also changed the scope mounts totally. It had P-H blocks and rings which I have never really been fond of. It now has Weaver bases and some B-Square rings which I had in the drawer but found they foul the ball of the bolt handle so later will swop them out for a lower ring which hopefully will clear.

Just been on the phone to the Gunshop about a new scope for the rifle. Budget is severely restricted right now :o so it will have to be budget scope and will be looking at 4-12x42 Nikko-Sterling Gold in the next few days.

If this all does not improve the grouping then I am somewhat at a loss where to go next. I suppose taking it to the riflesmith for evaluation and testing would most likely be the logical thing to do then.

[petey]

Do you know the history on the gun from the person you purchased it from? It could be the reason he unloaded it. I hate to say it, but it may just end up as a rebarrel job.

Sounds like you've checked most of the obvious options. The scope is a definite option, but one cheap way to check is to put it on another gun and how well it does. Unless you're seeing some major inconsitencies, then that's probably out.

There's no reason that .244 shouldn't be a tack driver unless there's some kind of damage somewhere.

[Brithunter]

Hi Petey,

I am waiting on a new scope in the mail, briught from an E-Bay shop here in the Uk, it's a Nikko-Sterling Gold Crown 4.5-14x50AO. Not a great scope but funds are tight so we will see how things go. The rifle was brought from a dealer who happens to be a friend so I have never spoken to the previous owner so it's history is unknown really. The bore looks good and I cannot see any obvious wear in the throat nor at the muzzle.

Re-barreling is not finacially viable here and is nto straight forward due to the laws. If you hand the rifle to a gunsmith and have a new barrel fitted in the same chambering you don't need any alterations to your licence but the cost is likely to be around £300-£600 ($600-$1200US) which is why it's not often done.

Doing the job yourself requires a variation on your licence to obtain the bew barrel then after fitting it should be proofed, havign an unproofed rifle is not illegal but selling one is.

Was hoping the scope would arrive today but it didn't so I cannot try it out tomorrow (Sunday) on the range. Once it arrives and I get to the range with it I will report how things go.

If it's still bad then I need to think carefully what to do next.

Edit:-

Well the new scope arrived and on close inspection after fitting whilst adjusting the fast focus eyepiece to get the reticle in sharp focus I discovered that the reticle moves about if you put pressure on the side of the eyepiece. So this brand new scope is totally useless.

Looking through the packaging I found on the box the infamous legend :-


Made In China :(

It seems my bad luck with respect to this rifle continues :rolleyes: .

[Rapier]

Brithunter,
If you have return privelages it sounds like the scope should be returned. If you can not return the scope, set the focus by looking at the sky with an infinity setting for paralax and the highest magnification then lock the focus adjustment eyepiece with the lock ring. As long as the crosshair center does not change with a change to the magnification you still might be able to use the scope.

As the rifle was used when purchased you should de-copper the bore. I do this with every used rifle I buy. 99% of the time I get big chunks of copper jacket material out of the bore. If you can find it in the UK, buy a bottle of Shooter's Choice Copper Solvent. Plug the chamber and fill the bore up to the top. Set the gun in the corner for 1 week. Pour the liquid back into the bottle and scrub the bore out with a bronze brush.

Check the rifling twist rate. The 6mm is very picky about the proper twist rate for the bullet length and a good many 6mm factory guns will not shoot a heavy bullet (above 85 gr) at all.
Best of luck,
Ed

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

The bore was cleaned of copper a long time ago when I first brought it. I used Forrest Foaming bore cleaner which is a copper remover and I ahve cleaned it of copepr a couple of times since as I have now fired around 350 rounds trying to get it to group. Rifling twist is 1-10" as far as I can tell using the rod and tight patch.

The scope has a fast focus eye piece so you cannot lock it up and the scope is justy Chinese cheap crap. The argument contiues with the vendor and it looks like i might have to take them to court. We have a thing called the small claims court which is not expensive to use.

[Jack]

Brithunter, do you have any means of measuring runout on a fired case?
A runout gauge would be ideal, but sometimes you can see significant amounts of runout- if they exist- by slowly rolling a fired case across a mirror. Watch the case neck- if you see it wobble with the naked eye as you roll it across a mirror, you've got significant runout.
I'm certain you know what I'm talking about, but for those who might not... runout of a fired case measures the (lack of) concentricity between the chamber and the bore. If the chamber is significantly out of line with the bore, well...you're screwed. You'll never get it to shoot really well.
Brithunter, nothing you've mentioned in any post really leads me to think you have a problem with chamber/bore runout, except... it's one of the few conditions you can run across in a used rifle that you cannot remedy short of rechambering or rebarreling.
And you've already done all the other things that usually cure rifles with accuracy problems.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm this thread is old but I ended up selling the scope for a small loss to someone who wanted it for a recoiless airgun and it seems it works fine on that. I tried a couple of scopes on the rifle but just could not chase down th fine grouping it should be capable of.

Well if I ever get the guns and licence back after this hassle we will take it to a accuracy gunsmith and let him have a look over it and bore scope it as well then decide what is to be done.

Currently the rifle has a Falcon Menace 7.5x50 CSS scope with mildot reticle. Wanted to try a mil dot out so piked this scope up to give it a whirl.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201200V/PB160080.jpg

Scope is kind large. Hopefully we will get back to working with it but when :confused:

Oh yes we don't seem to have any neck run out as such the trouble is that this saga has been going on so long I have lost track of how it was shooting at the end. I know we sort of cured the stringing and were getting more rounded groups but they were still larger than i would like. Of course a better shot than I might help matters.

[Catfish]

What bullet weights are you shooting and have you plaied with setting depth? Every barrel is different and I have had barrels that shoot best with the bullet jammed into the lands and other that liked a long jump. Most of the time little or no jump works best for me, but I play with alot of wildcat that are barrel burnners. I`m don`t know what case the 6-PH is based on, but I load for 6mm rounds based on the 223, 222 rem mag, 243 and 284 cases. The smaller case are not as effected by jump as the larger cases. With a 1 in 10 twist you might have trouble stablizing 90 and 100 gr. bullets. Without knowing more about twist and bullet weight I can say no more about that.

[Adam Helmer]

Brithunter,

I agree with Catfish, what loads are you using and have you "tweeked" the loads before you swap out scopes, rings and such-like? I may have missed something, but will this rifle shoot small groups and with what loads?

Adam

[Brithunter]

So far I have not been able to get consistent performance or grouping and none of the groups have been what one can call good. I think the best, just found the target is a 3 shot group of 0.407" shot on August 24th 2008 however a three shot group is not really proving much in a heavy barrelled rifle like this. It has shot several of about 3/4" at 82 yards (75M) but most have been MOA and larger which just does not cut it really for a heavy barreled varmint gun in 6mm.

The stock needs a re-finish as the varnish was chipped. I tried a re-finish but the finish went all splotchy and needs to be stripped off and started again. So if I can arrange it the rifle will got up the Steve Kershaw in Yorkshire for him to give it a going over and bore scope. Once we get the report we can decide where to go from there.

Part of the problem might be we don't know how many rounds have been through the bore. The bore scope should reveal any serious wear in throat etc.

Of all the bullets tried the Hornady 87 Grn BTHP has given the best results.

[Larryjk]

Brithunter, The 1x10 twist should stabilize the 80 and 100 grain bullets just fine. If you go over 100 grains you may start to have trouble. The .243 Winchester has a standard 1x10 twist and has not trouble with those bullet weights. The Remington .244 originally had a 1x12 twist and would n't handle the 100 grain bullet. Remington reintroduced it as the 6mm Remington with a 1x91/2 twist and it does fine. I regularly shoot the 6mm Remington with 85 grain bullets for long range varmints and the 100 grain bullets for deer and antelope (pronghorn). The caliber is marginal for big game but the bullets are fine as long as shot placement is good. But the 80 and 100 grains bullets should stabilize without a problem with 1x10. Have your gunsmith go over the gun. If it has been rebarreled, have the gunsmith ascertain there is at least 0.005 clearance between the bolt face and back of barrel.