heres what happened

[Valigator]

3&1/2 hours with two Broward prosecutors and the arresting officer, stenographer, my attorney and me...every detail 10 times, 50 times to try and trip me up, why do I carry guns? My answer, "because of you" You and the state of Florida have basically left Floridians to fend for themselves" you threw us a bone by passing the "castle doctrine" but you really dont want me to utilize it . I get the feeling Law enforcement would rather do the paperwork on my efforts to carry guns, than you would on my right to protect myself! There isnt a law-abiding woman in this town who should be without a weapon for protection. I didnt do anything wrong, my weapons were as they should be! Cell phone, got alot about why I didnt call 911 right off the bat! I asked if any of them carried a purse? What would you do? dig for a cell phone in the bottom of your purse or stop the guy in his tracks?We are only talking feet here. End of the day and I quote! Valerie, we do not want you to stop what you are doing, we all feel its a valuable service, we want you to continue it. Ms. Parkhurst please dont hold the entire Davie police department responsible for what happened. ?I asked what that meant? They said they still had to "chew on it"but please Valerie go and get your concealed weapons permit! What does that tell you?

[Dan Morris]

Personally, I think you is home free! Just my thought and prayers.
Dan

[BILLY D.]

Val

I'm no Mouthpiece, thas my brothers area of expertise, but it sounds like you are off the hook. Congrats.

They told you to get a concealed permit, and you can't do that if you have a less than perfect record. I don't know what further issues they would have and if you were released it sounds like the game is over. Did they give you another date to report back or anything?

I don't understand everything I know about Floridas Castle Doctrine Law but from what I've read you were in the right.

Thank God you didn't over react and shoot the POS. We might be sending you Care Packages at Christmas time at the Barb Wire Hotel.

I don't understand "what it is they are still chewing on". Did they give you a release and your Bond money back? Did they expunge you record?

Keep us clued in.

One other thing, it sounds like the Arresting Officer was a dip stick. The defense they offered by saying "don't blame the entire Police Department" leads me to believe this guy has had a problem previously. It also sounds like they are trying to board up their butts to me.

Bless you heart Lady and keep up the good work.

Best wishes, Bill

[skeet]

Glad to hear that things went as well as they did. Let us know what goes from here. BTW...go get that concealed permit.:D Did the petition we signed do any good??

[Valigator]

Originally posted by skeet
Glad to hear that things went as well as they did. Let us know what goes from here. BTW...go get that concealed permit.:D Did the petition we signed do any good??

You better believe it as one attorney was asking me questions the other was going thru all my newspaper clippings and e-mails from DOC, Davie police etc....they left the room at one time and he had the petition in his hand I printed with all the signatures, did it help? I say it helped alot....plus there were so many people who wrote in on my behalf, I am blessed to have had this much support...I appreciate it and love you all for it. Long story short, I think most definitely the petition helped.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yepo we have the castle law too. I still got my CCW permit. Why? Because of the idiots out there trying to prosecute even if they are in the wrong.

Congrats, I agree. I think you are all set.

GoodOlBoy

[popplecop]

Sounds like you made ok. I would take their advice and get a CC permit. I happen to live in one of the two states that have govenors who say that they are not needed. And if you carry a 1911 you'll be able to find it in your purse.

[Aim to maim]

I'm happy for you that things seem to be resolving themselves.

One question if I may. Why did you not already have a concealed carry permit? If you do not want to answer that for any reason, that's OK.

[fabsroman]

That is good news Valerie. Your attorney, who was present for the entire process and heard everything they had to say, will be the person in the best position to tell you how things are going. Keep your head up and keep on fighting this. As far as I am concerned, that convicted rapist/kidnapper should still be in prison, if not 6 feet under.

For everybody else:

The Castle Doctrine only applies to your home. Essentially, it allows you to shoot anybody that breaks into your home, without the need to attempt to flee your home first. In essence, a man's home is his castle. I think Florida takes this a step further and does not require a person to attempt feeling from danger (i.e., an aggressor using deadly force) before using deadly force outside of the home.

The problem with Valerie is that she was not at home when this occurred, so the Castle Doctrine would not apply, but the new law that Florida just passed might. Florida is pretty lenient about concealed carry, but I still think you need a permit for it. Now, if the weapon wasn't concealed, I have no idea what the law is about that. I have always wondered if I would get into any trouble if I were to just stroll down the sidewalk with a loaded shotgun on my shoulder. Sad thing is that I'm not willing to find out by doing it.

On the flip side of this, have any of you guys ever thought that some of these guys might be innocent? I'm pretty tough on crime myself, but more and more I have been hearing about how people have been wrongly convicted of rape. A man was set free in Texas just recently after doing 23 years for rape. A recent DNA test showed that the DNA evidence collected from the victim did not match his. I cannot imagine being locked up for 23 years of my life for a crime that I did not commit. There is also another story like this from Illinois. A bunch of guys were on death row for rape, and several years ago they were also released because the DNA evidence did not match. I think that was somewhere around 50 guys, but I could be wrong. Sometimes, you just have to wonder.

[skeet]

In the interest of "justice" the police and the prosecutors have a real need to close cases. Sometimes the leg work that should be done investigating these crimes isn't done properly or completely. Yep..we all cut corners on some things. Some of the guys you are talking about plead out to a lesser crime ...even though they didn't do the crime?? Some were found guilty after lengthy court battles.. Not standing up for the police or the court system...but some of the ones you are talking of were career criminals. Some places give ya 3 strikes on felonies and then ya get life. Not making excuses but that is the way it is. And anymore you have to prove yourself innocent rather than the powers that be proving you guilty. Half of them are tried in the newspapers and on TV insuring lots of sensationalism. Of course mistakes are made and completely innocent people are sent to jail...but remember Justice is NOT blind! or necessarily fair either.

BTW I don't think it was 50 that were turned loose at one time in Illinois...but then again ..if it was illinois...ya have to understand the liberal mindset:D :D

[muledeer]

I agree with everyone else. I can't imagine they would suggest getting a CCW, keep up the good work, etc., and then prosecute.
muledeer

[BILLY D.]

Fabs

My understanding of Floridas Castle Doctrine was that it also covered the victim anywhere, and that included outside the home.

You do not have to retreat to protect your life, that of another person or your personal property. So it also pertains to automobiles.

As I remember, the State of Florida took a lot of heat when this law was passed. The Socialists said it made property and such more important than life.

Kinda goes along with the ol' saying, "You don't hang a horsethief 'cause he stole horses, you hang 'im so he don't steal no more". Yes stealing horses had a death penalty in the old days.

I'll look up the Florida Law. Won't be for awhile though. Later this evening.

Best wishes, Bill

[GoodOlBoy]

In Texas the castle law covers your home and your vehicle(s), which is(are) now considered an extension of your home.

GoodOlBoy

[BILLY D.]

Fabs

Thumbnail sketch of Florida Castle Doctrine Law.

State Senate passed 23 March, Florida House Passed 5 April and Govenor signed 26 April. Effective Date 1 October 2005.

What does the New Law do?

One. It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or VEHICLE is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may "use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two. It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when atttacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, Including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent or great bodily harm to your self "or others". [This an "American Right" repeatedly recognized in SCOTUS gun cases.]

Three. It provides that persons using force authorized by law SHALL NOT be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for killing or injuring the criminals who have attacked them.

So it appears, athough I don't have all the facts, that Ms. Valigator warned the dirt bag to leave her alone, then retreated to her vehicle to secure a Firearm/Weapon then confronted said dirt bag. From these "facts" it would appear she did the right thing. Now if she were carrying a Weapon when first confronted by the dirt bag she would be in some trouble for a concealed weapon and no permit or prior license. Being that she retreated to her vehicle for the weapons is passible for the situation.

It is my non-professional opinion the Police Officer walked up his necktie with his golf shoes on. I had to clean that up a tad.

By her admission she acted in the proper manner. As a woman I don't think I would enjoy a track meet in a parking lot with high heels on. With my ankles I would be in a world of do do. When I participated in sports I had to use about 10 yards of tape on both ankles.

If I were Ms. Val I think I'd maintain a low profile for awhile. This might just push the dirt bag over the line and she could get hurt. Some aholes really carry a grudge. As a bare minimum I would maintain my activities to daylight hours and have someone with me.

Best wishes, Bill

[Jack]

Fabs, the number of people who have been convicted of serious crimes and released when DNA evidence proved them innocent is over 200. I don't believe that number (200) is for Illinois alone- I believe it's nationwide.
I have also heard that 100 or more of that 200 were on death row, or doing life on a murder conviction.
The Innocence Project is the outfit that has been pushing the DNA testing on those cases.

[BILLY D.]

Fabs

You are starting to sound like the typical anti gunner from Maryland with your comment about Floridas lenient laws for Concealed Carry. It's insulting and condescending to those of us who Carry. You are fingerprinted, Subjected to a full National backround check, a check of your local and state police records, and you have to prove your proficiency with a firearm, a written test concerning the laws, and a class where you actually shoot. They only things they don't require are your blood type and religious preference.

What else would you like, perhaps they could hold our first born child as a collateral restriction?

Now if ya'll jus put all those restrictions on criminals before they could get guns I'd be happy.

When these laws for CC in any of the states the Brady speak bunch said there would be carnage in the streets and "the cowboys" would be taking over. Ain't happened yet.

Gun owners and CC people know the meaning of deadly force how and when to use it. And they obey the laws.

Now if you want to argue about it let me know. Remember it takes me about 5 times longer to type because I'm one handed. I'll try to keep up though. ;)

Bill

[grayghost]

I just read Val's situation but am somewhat unclear as to what exactly she is charged or accused of. I read the petition and would have signed it had I read it yesterday or earlier. I hope all charges and or harassments are dismissed without prejudice. Everyone has the right to defend themselves. It appears to me that she was exercising her rights. However, it also appears that once again the PC crowd forgets we are with rights in this country. I guess that same crowd forgot we've fought several wars within this country over rights. Shall we fight again? grayghost

[fabsroman]

Billy,

You got two posts in there before I could even read either of them.

Okay, lets start with this phrase, "Gun owners and CC people know the meaning of deadly force how and when to use it. And they obey the laws."

I am sure that there are plenty of gun owners that use guns illegally, even if they were bought legally. I'm sure that plenty of murders have been convicted by people that legally purchased guns and just went off the deep end and killed somebody during the 200+ years that this country has been in existence. So, not all gun owners obey the laws.

As far as my reference to Florida being any easy state to obtain a CCW permit it, it is. Try comparing Florida to Maryland. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that in Florida, and would in fact hope that Maryland becomes a little more lax in that department. I wouldn't mind a CCW permit myself, but they are pretty hard to come by around here.

My philosophy is that all law abiding citizens should carry. That way, everybody needs to think twice about doing stupid things like shooting up a mall or school full of people. So, you are preaching to the choir on the CCW issue.

Last but not least, and probably most importantly, I am not saying that Val was wrong in what she did. I just didn't think the Castle Doctrine applied in this matter. If you go back and read my post, I think I mentioned that Florida had expanded the law to allow a person to stand his/her ground when confronted. Generally, the Castle Doctrine has a castle in it (i.e., house, car). In Maryland, it is merely the house. Maybe in Florida it is just a person's body. I don't have the time tonight, or I would look up the actual Florida law and see if it is called the Castle Doctrine.

Jack,

You are correct that it is The Innocence Project that is working on these death row cases. I did a quick google search and found this article from 2000 about Illinois, and it states that 13 death row inmates were found not guilty:

http://www.speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1231b-1.html

I have no idea where the number I came up with came from, but I do believe I remember seeing it somewhere. Maybe my memory just isn't what it used to be.

Even if the number is 100 or 200, that is still a staggering number. I wouldn't want to be one of the 100 or 200. Heck, I cannot even imagine spending a single day of my life in jail, because that is a day that I will never get back.

[Nulle]

South Dakota has the CC where unless you are a convicted felon or mental case they have to grant you one. Now as we all know that medical information is not for public reading so I guess the only ones it pertains to is felons. I do not think EVERY person should have a right to carry a conceiled gun by any standards.
That would be just flat scary and reckless.
Appears to me Vals deal fits well into the Castle Doctrine and with, we hope some common cents this mess will just go away for her.

[BILLY D.]

Curt

Thats what all the hub bub is about with the bill that just passed in Washington. It's about the release to the public about such things as PTSD and mental illness and the folks whose records, MEDICAL, can not be released for backround checks etc.

Thats how the scum bag from Virginia Tech slipped through the cracks. If his records would have been public he would never been able to pass a backround check. Medical records seem to be the "Holy Grail" as they can't be released outside the Medical Community. That stinks in my book.

The VA Tech kid screamed for help in more ways than one before that incident, AND NOBODY LISTENED. They did all the paperwork and filed it away.

Medical records should be public within reason. A valid reason. I really don't give a rats rump if the whole world knows I have Athletes Foot, or Glaucoma, Dandruff, that I have AB NEG. blood type and have ocassional bouts with constipation, or that I am a Catholic.

If a person is mentally defective it should be knowledge that should be known by employers, police agencies, and any vestige that affects the general welfare of the public.

There have been many on internet Gun And Firearm forums that are very hostile to this law and have gone so far as to call it "The Veterans Disarmament Act".

Where this gets really squishey is with Veterans that are receiving Disability Checks for PTSD. I certainly can understand their concern. The Government can work in some strange and mysterious ways.

If a Veteran is judged not to be stable enough to have a "Firearm", as far as I'm concerned so be it. However, after a few dealings with Psychiatrists I think most of the ones I met were "a half bubble off plumb". But thats neither here nor there.

As long as a person knows the laws for concealed carry and taken a comprehenshive test to prove such knowledge, proven their knowledge and proficiency with a firearm I have no problem with concealed carry.

This leads me to another conundrum. How would I react if I were in a Mall and somebody started shooting up the place? Unless the perp were within mere feet of me, my first move would be to board up little Billy D. 's backside. I don't think I would be real boisterious about shooting when the SWAT Team arrived. I want to look like the rest of "the sheeple". They don't have a single clue who the Da Hell I am. I don't find my body especially attractive after it's been pierced with bullets. Ask me how I know that.

This would become one of those "hooray for me and to heck with you" scenarios. I'm not self centered, neither am I stupid either.

Well enough of the "Typewriter Commando" crap. Hows everything at the "DOGGIE HOTEL"? This will keep ya awake for the afternoon. ;)

Best wishes, Bill

[Valigator]

Billy you kill me...:D

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Valigator
Billy you kill me...:D

Glad you enjoyed.

Like Grandma always said "never take life too seriously". She lived to be 103. I guess it works! ;)

Best wishes, Bill

[Lilred]

I sure do miss alot..ya'll hold on to your bloomers fer a minute while I git my head out my butt...ahhhh...better :rolleyes:

First off...good luck val...I hope everything turns out ok fer ya.
Secondly, let me make a comment on the VA tech thing...as we speak..general assembly is "passin" the if you're nuts-no butts gun laws...and to me it makes sense. However...it's the level of insanity that they will determine that worries me.
Fer example...last week my beloved son (yeah...i say it with MUCH sarcasm) was caught in school with a fortune teller. It's a sheet of paper folded forty-eleven hundred ways and you write the answers in the folds. Apparently, the boys question was "how are you gonna die?" and the answers my son and his buddies came up with was....suicide, burned alive, buried alive, old age, cancer, shooting. Ya flip it around and it comes up with one of those answers.

Well, after a visit to the principal's office...they wanted me to take my kid to a state run nut joint and put him in fer a evaluation. I laughed, told em they needed it worse than he did and walked out. Here's the kicker...what if I took him. It's on his record...he had to have a mental evaluation. When this new law passes, will it be that one visit that bans you from havin guns, or 1 year in the funny farm?

I've been watchin close...I've done wrote my letters and emails, but you can bet yer pistol that they will wrap the gun laws up tighter than a man in a straight jacket...exactly how "nuts" do you have to be for you to lose your right to own a gun?

From what I understand, this law will also apply to long guns.
Yeah, schools are nuts too..my argument with that...how many times do we watch the 6 o'clock news and see all them words used forty-eleven hundred times every day. They acted like he had commited each crime on school grounds that very day. My son is an honors student fer god's sake...and aint been in the first lick of trouble at school. I took it very personal and was very offended...and I was as mad as a cat with with 10 soup cans tied to it's tail.

This minivan drivin, disney luvin, bottled water drinkin pansy asses really need to get a life....lol :p :rolleyes:

[fabsroman]

Lilred,

I think there already is a standard of mental illness that is used to judge if somebody needs to be committed. If they are a danger to themselves or to the public, I believe they can be committed, and I believe this is the standard used to determine whether or not somebody can own a firearm. Usually, it is a Court order that has to commit a person. So, I don't think going to the psychiatrist for depression is going to get a person banned from owning a firearm.

By the way, I was a horrible student in kindergarten and first grade. I cried almost all the time and even threw a chair at a teacher once. In 2nd grade, everything was fine. In 3rd grade, I got straight A's. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was in mostly advanced classes. If I were in your shoes, I would have done the exact same thing, but probably like Val's guy did (i.e., a lot of profanity). The kids were playing a game with a paper contraption that I have no idea how they make. So what. We used to do it too, but I never made the thing.

Val, I agree with your son putting the other kid in the trash can and I agree with how your guy handled it, except maybe for the cussing, but I could have been guilty of that too under those circumstances. A client of mine grabbed a lady's rear in a crowded bar, and after she finished beating his drunk self senseless, he was charged with 2nd degree assault and sexual assault. He ended up getting a PBJ on that one, but I decided not to represent him in it because it was in a "good ole boys" part of Maryland, and I wouldn't have been considered one of the "good ole boys."

[Lilred]

Val,
kids are doin great. Lil Lilred's bday is this wednesday...she'll be 4. Can ya believe it? Time flies...and my son is doin great aside from his fortune tellin incident...lol...here's a pic of him. He just turned 14, and he's 5'7 already...never thought I'd see the day where I actually had to look up to see my son....wierd.
No worries tho, he still knows mama can whoop his butt if she needs ta ;) :D

[Nulle]

There most certainly is a process for committing a mental person.
This can be done by Law Enforcement or the Family.
As far as these records being public = Not in this State.

[fabsroman]

Those records should never be public, but they should be a part of the NICS check and supplied to the feds. The only thing the feds need to disclose is that the person trying to buy the gun is unfit to own a gun. There doesn't have to be a huge amount of disclosure to the firearms dealer.

[Nulle]

Thats a good idea and wished they would put it in place.