Thoughts on a 357 rifle under 75 yards for whitetail

[Purebred Redneck]

Thinking of buying a lever carbine as well as a revolver.
The rifle would be for deer and revolver just a beat around the bush gun.

If I reloaded, a 44 or 45 would be more practical.
I don't though, so I'm leaning towards the 357 as I am hearing fairly good things from people who have recent experiences from rifles (opposed to people who shot deer 30 years ago with a revolver).

What's everyone's opinion of a 357 with a rifle?

BuffaloBore ammo:
18.5 inch Marlin 1894
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps

We're approaching 30-30 levels on some of this !!!

And what about your standard Winchester or Federal hunting rounds? Not quite as powerfull as buffalobore but they are a bit cheaper.

Thanks

[GoodOlBoy]

Under 75 yards a 158 grain semi jacketed softpoint would be awesome on whitetail.

No recoil.
Cheap and available ammo from target to hunting to home defense.

Whats the question again?

GoodOlBoy

[Adam Helmer]

Redneck,


What state are you hunting in? Since you apparently do not reload, why not go for the .44 Magnum and be done with it? Yes, a .357 MIGHT be enough, but why send a boy to do a man's job?

Adam

[Purebred Redneck]

I'm out in Missouri

I have a Savage 7mag set up for long range with a 6x18 scope. So it's not too bad for shots over 50 yards.
However for close shots 50 yards and under - there may be some complications.

I used to hunt in Northern Missouri with a lot of open fields. Now I'm hunting in the woods on public land for the last couple years.
And a lever action pistol caliber is something I've always wanted.

I would be putting maybe 500 shots a year through the gun.
Factory 38 specials or reloaded 44/45's would be the direction I'd be looking at.
Big bore factory rounds are running about 25 bucks for 50 rounds. Just too costly.

[popplecop]

I have and hunt with both a Marlin in .357 and .44 mag. Both rifles kill deer out to 100 yds with no problem. With the .44 I have been useing 265 gr. jacketed bullet handloade. With the .357 I' use Winchjester 180 gr. Supremes, great factory round. Trying to find a similar handload. Why do I have both cause have matching Ruger SAs and besides I really like carrying them in the thick stuff.

[skb2706]

My opinion is that Buffalo Bore is pretty optimistic about their ammo.
Shooting a .357 MAX thru my 21" barrel I am hard pressed to get those numbers with max level loads. Very effective out to 150 yds. probably farther.
Its not that it won't work but I wouldn't plan on those numbers.

People who shot deer with a revolver 30 years ago set the stage for those without a clue in present day. Without them there wouldn't be a Buffalo Bore or excellent component bullets for the likes of the .357.

[GoodOlBoy]

I never use buffalo bore ammo. I just don't. If I want heavier than standard ammo I hand load, and most often I try to pick a caliber that will already do what I want it to.

This is all I have ever needed in a 357 for anything from deer to hog. 75 yards is about the furthest I shoot with one, but then again thats what I limit my 30-30 to. Why? not because its the limit of the gun but it is the limit of me. If I shoot beyond 75 yards I have a nice bolt action 270 with a scope on it. Period. See the link and info below.


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=211425&t=11082005

Specs from magtechs home page.



Description:
357 Magnum 158 Grain Semi Jacketed Soft Point Flat
Use: Sport Shooting Ammunition
Caliber: 357 Magnum
Casing: Factory Brass

Symbol: 357E
BULLET
Bullet Style: SJSP Flat
Weight (Grains): 158
Weight (Grams): 10.24
Diameter (inches): 0.357
Sectional Density: 0.177
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.163


PRIMER
Type: Small Magnum Pistol Primer 5½
Style: Boxer

BALLISTICS
FPS M/S
Velocity (Muzzle) 1235 376
Velocity (50 Yards/Meters) 1104 333
Velocity (100 Yards/Meters) 1015 305

Ft.Lbs J
Energy (Muzzle) 535 724
Energy (50 Yards/Meters) 428 568
Energy (100 Yards/Meters) 361 476


Inch Cm
Mid-Range Trajectory (50 Yards/Meters) 0.5 2.4
Mid-Range Trajectory (100 Yards/Meters) 3.6 10.7
Test Barrel Length 4-V 10.2-V

Power Factor (Estimated) 195.13
+P Ammunition NO


PACKAGING
Box/Bag Inner Pack Shipping Case
Quality (Pieces) 50 N/A 1000
UPC 7 54908 16941 2 N/A 7 54908 16940 5
Dimensions (Length Inches) 5.2 N/A 11.5
Dimensions (Width Inches) 1.8 N/A 6
Dimensions (Height Inches) 2.7 N/A 9.5
Weight (Pounds) 1.9 N/A 39.1
Cube 0.01 N/A 0.38
Cases Per Pallet 96
MSRP $20.41 N/A $408.24


OTHER
Suggested Use: Target & Match, Range, Plinking, Hunting
Bullet Features: Positive Functioning, Energy Transfer, Penetration, Accurate
Quality: All Magtech products are manufacturered to SAAMI and CIP specifications.
Warning: Read all warnings on the box prior to use.
Warning +P Ammunition: +P ammunition is loaded to a higher pressure. Use only in approved firearms.



keep in mind this is NOT sold as +p ammo only as regular 357 mag, however magtechs policy is to label almost all of its MAG (edited to add ON THE HOMEPAGE) anything ammo as +P lest some numbnuts decide he can put one in a el cheapo 38 and get away with it. As you can see the BOX does not label it this way, and midwayusa does not label it this. I have shot this in a variety of 357s and have NEVER had a failure, NOR a powder/primer induced flyer. The recoil is milder that many HPs I have fired in the 357 mag flavor.

GoodOlBoy

[jmarriott]

Used 3 guns and took 4 deer this year.

First deer was with a contender 357 max 150 yards or more using my friends hand loads. Accurate and about the power of the 35 rem. which in this state is illegal in a rifle. Nice little buck. Out of a custom 23 inch barrel I might be able to go almost 200 yards not sure yet.

Second and third were 44 mag with a marlin at close range at a state park reduction hunt. one shot and down. I was forced to hunt these deer like rabbits cause i had a very bad cough and tree stand hunting just was not working. It was nice to carry the 7 pound lever instead of the 11 pound rem 870. Plain Jane Winchester white box JSP ammo and that microgroove barrel loves them.

Last and most important to this tread was the 357 marlin. I shot at about 50 yards on a fence row and i thought I missed as the deer jumped the fence and disappeared. I almost walked away without checking the area ahead since i saw not a flinch, or sign of a hit. I walked to the area the deer jumped the fence and the doe was laying just over the fence line dead as a nail. 180 grain federals was the ammo i had in the closet and they worked well.

Hey PBR since I have read lots of your posts you will love the marlin 357. Cheap 38 ammo to blast. Accurate open sight with touching groups at 50 yards. No need to scope it. Light weight so no real need to sling it. Good truck guns as the carbine length makes getting it out of the truck easy.

I will admit the 10 rounds in the tubes are a pain in the A** to load and unload it you hunt 30 minutes here and 1 hour their with a car ride in between. I normally load about 5 or 6 instead.

[Purebred Redneck]

Thanks all

I am leaning towards the 357 now. Reloading just seems like too much of a hastle.

Let's just say the buffalo bore stats are correct with their 170's
1860fps
At 50 yards (though the stat is not available) should be around 1600fps.


Winchester 30-30 170 powerpoints (which we'll assume is correct but also just as likely as buffalo bore to be optimistic)
2200fps
At 100 yards, it's 1879fps
At 200 yards, it's 1591fps


Now this may seem obsurd, but let's compare that for a moment.
No one would think twice about a 200to250 yard shot with the 30-30 so long as they got the elevation correct. Deer go down pretty quick even at that range.
That's about what we're talking about with a 50-75 yard shot with the hot 357. And my primary interest would be hunting out of my archery stands which should be less than 50 yard shots.

Seems silly to compare the two rounds this way, but is it?

[Leadbutt]

I have used my Rossi 92 16" carbine for a couple of years on deer, granted most if not all shots where under 80 meters or so. Ammo used was either a slightly hot 200 grain hard cast from Bearthooth, or a factory round in the 180 grain Load from Federal or Cor-Bon. Didn't go with the 44 just due to the set up I had at the time.

You mite think about a small hand loader for the 357 some thing like an old Lee Hand Loader or may be a Tang Tool set up in 357.

[Rapier]

There is not one thing wrong with the 357 Mag in a rifle for whitetails. I reload and prefer the 180 to 200 gr bullets, but the factory fodder will feed the beast very nicely. I would try to find heavy bullets for the rifle as the bigger bullets let the little rifles perform like a rifle.

I have two Martini Cadets in 357 Super Mag and a Marlin 94C in 357 mag. I have no problem taking to the SE woods with the little guns, at all.
Ed

[Rocky Raab]

Two points to make here.

One, a 357 Mag carbine is fully adequate for deer at the ranges mentioned, using factory 158 to 180-gr ammo.

Two, If you think $25 a box of 50 is too steep, you haven't priced ammo lately - and if you check it again this summer, even today's extreme prices are gonna seem a bargain.

[Purebred Redneck]

Very true Rocky, ammo prices are going no where but down.

25 dollars for 50 rounds in a 38special might be the going rate here in a couple years. But the cowboy 45 loads loads will be 50 dollars...


The point being that a 38 special should always be about half of the 44 mag or 45 colt.