Living history in an old gun.

[Adam Helmer]

I was given a fine Christmas gift 4 years ago; it was something I always wanted and finally got: a .30/30 Winchester.

The writing on the very good condition carbine with saddle ring just looked old. I read a recent gun magazine artice about 1,800 .30/30 M94 Winchesters called "Spruce Guns" because they were issued to forest rangers during WWI to protect the Alaskan spruce timber needed for WWI aircraft. The serial number block of those "Spruce Guns" is 35+/- digits ABOVE my M94 Winchester's serial number.

Ok, my Winchester is old and could have been a WWI veteran, but was not. I appreciate this old arm and carry it afield as is due a venerable arm. I have no idea where this rifle has been before it came to my vault.

I collect old coins, old guns, old bayonets and other stuff older than me. I often wonder, "Where has this stuff been?" I am glad to have owned it all while I was passing through.

Adam

[skeet]

Even though it may seem to be out of the serial number range...it ain't necessarily so. Winchester's records aren't cut in stone. That gun may have been one of those issued 94 Spruce guns. So don't count it out of there. Y'all know I sold guns for serious at one time and I have a little story to tell. Had a Korean War vet come in one day. Was looking for a Garand like he had in the War. Only one I had left was my own nice condition Winchester. I told him the only one I had was one I was gonna keep nothing else about it. He went on and told me about some of his war experiences. Before he left he told me if I ever found a Winchester made Garand he would be interested. I told him mine was a Winchester. Out of the clear he rattled off the serial number of his rifle..Just had to check. Went to the Safe and got mine out. Asked him to quote the serial...the one I had was 12 digits off. What were the odds?? That fellow went home with that rifle..for just what I had in it too. I'm sure the original serial number has blurred a bit over the 10 yrs or so since then..but he has the memories....and so do I:D

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Thanks for the Garand story.

I had an uncle in WWII and he had a Carbine serial number xxx.xxx and found it 30 years later at his gun club. He told the story and the owner sold it to Marty for what it cost him, $17.50 plus $2.50 shipping from the NRA's DCM Program in 1965.

Adam

[model8]

sounds like a nice gun i love the older guns i carry a rem model 8 of course in 32 rem made in 1929 u cant beat those old guns

[skeet]

Those were neat ol guns. I had one and sold it when I found a M-81 in 35 Rem. Felt a bit better and was a little more reliable..and I like pistol grip stocks more too. My M-8 was straight gripped. and even though I still have some 30 Rem ammo..it is much harder to find now than 35 Rem for certain. 32 is even harder to find. I just found a few Rem UMC cartridges in 30 cal..I had heard them called 30-30 Remington but had never seen a gun or ammo marked that way. Got 6 rounds in an original box at a yard sale for a dollar. Even the box is marked 30-30 Rem. Probably not worth much but it sure is neat. I am a fan of the M-14 and 141 Remingtons too.;)

[model8]

only ol dirty scrounger has ammo for the 32 but u can reload useing 30 cases fullength sized to 32 then necked to 32 i like the m-8 but the 35 rem is a great cal i love everything bout the m-8

[skeet]

I had a bunch of older guns at one time. Thinnin the herd a bit last few years. Still have a few Older M-70's in mostly harder to find cals. A couple or 3 or four SxS guns that are all worth a LOT more than I paid for 'em. A few sporterized 03's and a nice 03A4 with no stock...given to me by a WWII marine pilot who got it in the south pacific...from a "mud" marine as he called him. Most of what I have now that mean the most to me are the ones like that A4..got 'em from older friends that are gone now. Have a 1911 National Match bought new in 1958 Mail order from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago Ill by a friend who is now gone..Another WWII vet. Got all his guns when he had to move out of his home..Got them at a fair price or free and will never sell 'em. Some of the guns aren't worth too much but the memories are worth much more than the guns. Exept for the A4 I shoot 'em all..ocassionally

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Last year I finally got an octagon barrel .30-30 M94 Rifle. The serial number says it was made in 1919. I will carry it afield on November 30 for PA rifle deer properly attired in my Woolrich coat and pants and high-laced boots.

Adam

[skeet]

Adam I also acquired an old 94. Serial says '98 and it is a full length 26 in oct rifle...Bore is OK not great..just OK It has express sights and a pistol grip stock. Not the original stock but an old replacement. Talked to the guy at the Cody Museum and the gun is as original cept for the replaced stock. I loaded up some cast boolit loads for it and am gonna use it for a deer here at home later this week. Shoots ok so hopefully it will account for at least one more head of game(maybe two as I have two landowner permits and too many deer) in it's long life. According to the historian the gun was shipped to a store in or near Clearfield Pa in early 1899. Nope not worth a whole bunch of money..but it's a neat ol rifle hopefully still bringin home the bacon after a 110 yrs. That is the neat part of the(on going?) history

[GoodOlBoy]

A few years back when I was out searching for a 30-30 I came across one a friend who owns a pawn and gun shop was holding for me. She said she knew I would come in at some point and would rather me have it than somebody who might not take care of it so she had kept it in the back for almost a month before I drifted through to find it. It is a Marlin whose serial numbers put it in the early '50's and the bore on it is pristine, and the outside is only slightly less than perfect. The old gentleman who had sold it to her had also given her the last three rounds of the original (and only) box of ammo he had purchased for it when it was brand spankin new. I got the gun for a song, and intend to take a deer with it this year come heck or high water.

GoodOlBoy

[Brithunter]

If only they could talk :cool: I have several, none are lever actions though, that could tell some fine tales I am sure like the Mauser M93 that was used in the 2nd Boer War but was brought before that and most likely spent it's early life hunting the game of South Africa. 7mm Mauser of course it dates from around 1897 and has the owners name engraved upon a silver oval inletted in the buttstock. It has an Octagonal barrel with a windage adjustable fore sight.

Or the Muscat Martini in 303 bore. I have no idea of the date of it but I assume it predates WW1. Seems they were made for the Sultan of Oman for his native forces but it looks more of a sporting carbine that a military one.

But I think my favorite has to be the 1893 dated Steyr Mannlicher Mdl 1892 in .256" bore (6.5x53R) that was built up into a "Best Sporting Rifle" by Rigby's of London for a Mr Dent of London and it has not been altered of messed with since it left Rigby's workshops. Oh the tales they could tell and I have even developed a load using the Hornady 160 Grain RN bullet that shoots to the sights which consist of a stand for 100 yards and fold down leaves for 200 and 300 yards with a fine bead foresight.

Sadly I don't have the correct period clothing to wear and in fact do not even know what an English sportsman would have been wearing then not stalking in the UK anyway.

[Adam Helmer]

Brithunter,

I understand how you wonder where some venerable old arms have been. I also have wondered where many of my old arms have been and who carried them all. I have always preferred military arms for the very reasons stated above. ALL my military arms have charachter and history. I can only wonder as I hunt with my venerable arms. ALL the arms we own today will one day belong to someone else. Let us hope they will be appreciated as they are by us.

Adam

[model8]

ame here my grandfather had a model 8 with a plate with the name george e smith on it and he never knew who that was it would be interesting to know about the guns history indivdually

[Brithunter]

Hmmm I didn't think of the Model 46 Husqvarna in my earlier post as it was getting a little modern beign of 1935 vintage ;) but it has the or an owners name etched into the butt plate. Ingmar Larsson it reads.

Ahhh Adam,

I have just sold or rather am just selling, it's with a dealer friend, my last military rifle. My collection is purely sporting now including commercially sporterised rifles by the Firms of BSA and Parker-Hale. That last Military rifle could tell some tales no doubt as it's been around a while starting life at Enfield Lock in 1888 as a Martini Henry Infantry carbine 1st grade then being converted by the Henry Rifle Barrel Co in 1898 to Martini Enfield and Artillery Carbine 2. I am not sure if that's a 2nd grade weapon or a mark 2 (11) in 303 of course. According to it's unit disc inletted into the butt it was last issued to the regular army in 1908 to the Army Pay Corps before being sold out of service to the Cadet Force as it is marked "Not For ball" across the top of the action front ring. I got it back in 93 when it ahd to be proofed before it could be legally sold and it passed proof at the London Proof house with flying colours :D Also picked up the correct 1888 pattern bayonet for it.

[skeet]

But my friend from near here got a nice little forkhorn buck using the old rifle this evening within 150 yds of my house. Heard him shoot and bout 5 mins later he came up to the house and we went and dressed it out. Gotten cold 'nuff that I can let it hang in the barn for a couple of days before we cut it up. Now his wife wants to use the ol gun to try and get a deer on their place. She sees some every morning when she feeds the cows and horses. BTW it shot angle of deer at about 45-50 yds. That ol cast boolit knocked him right off'n his feet. Ain't bad for 110 yrs of age.