An angry American

[billy ahring]

Let me start by saying I am a lifetime member of the NRA and am a card carrying NRA instructor in Rifle, Shotgun and Home and Personal Defense. I have always voted in favor of candidates that carry the NRA's endorsement. As of right now I am leaning toward voting Democrat in this year's presidential election. Two years ago I would have considered that blasphemy, but with the state of the economy, fuel prices and the overall financial health of this country I have been driven to this. It is time for a big change and I can't see Bush and Cheney get the hell out quick enough. I voted for Bush twice and I feel swindled. I am ashamed to say that I voted twice for W. I am ashamed that I felt proud when he won the presidency.
I fear that W will go down in history as the bar none absolute worst leader this once great country has ever had. Pretty strong feelings. I think Dick Cheney is a very intellingent man, criminally intellingent that is. His air of arrogance and entitlement make my blood boil. I wish that he had to spend time with regular working Americans that he has betrayed with his gluttonous greed. He would perish rather quickly.
I am not angry however with the NRA, they are looking out for our second amendment rights that I feel are important. If I was I would not be a life member nor certified instructor nor chair a Friends of NRA committee. It's just that I feel that the issues that face this country and the people that make the wheel go round are not second amendment related.
It angers me that Bush himself was an oil man maybe even still is I don't know I just get up on go to work every day. The fact is Bush is in bed with big oil and I feel big oil is the biggest villian that this country faces right now, not some terrorist who is supposedly cowering in a cave. Yeah right.....a frail old man who needs dialisis is living in a cave the last several years. Only the naive believe that any more. He's living better than working Americans you can be certain. Any one care to argue that point?
It angers me that my president is not the smartest man in the room.....any room. But rather a buffoon who was born with a silver spoon or rather golden spoon in his mouth and reeks of entitlement.
It angers me that Dick Cheney is an arrogant criminal and is not treated like what he is, I hope that someday he drowns swimming in his ocean of ill gotten money. Thanks Dick... you piece of .........well you know what.

I hope that this country's next leader, whoever that may be will in fact be the smartest person in the room and can get us back on track and on the path to recovery. The American Dream is becoming a myth due to corruption and greed by those in power. Shame on you George Bush for the job you have done. No wonder McCain does not want your endorsement. You are poison to his campaign and the GOP will suffer mightily this fall just you wait and see.

I know that there will be many to come to Bush's defense and flame the hell out of me for my views, that's fine flame away. We are all likeminded folks here and I'll still love you all. I'm just sick of seeing big oil record new record profits while the rest of us all circle the drain.

Please God save this country and God bless all. I hope we make it through this together and intact.

[jplonghunter]

billy ahring

I understand your frustration,however,as long as Jimmy Carter is still a former president,W is safe as the worst ever.

jplonghunter

[Rocky Raab]

Listen closely. Take a deep breath and chill. Here's the truth.

Bush and Cheney have NOTHING to do with high gas prices.

Gas prices are high because crude oil prices are high. Crude prices are high because Wall Street futures speculators have driven the price up. When they say they'll be willing to pay xxx per barrel in three months, why the hell should those selling it accept any less? They don't - and that's why prices are high: because some damn fool speculator said he'd pay out the wazzoo for it. Even OPEC says prices don't need to be this high. They themselves say it ought to be about $70 to $80 a barrel. But they'll happily take $135 if some damn fool offers that much.

So would you!

In the meantime, treehuggers and their Congress minions prohibit us from getting oil anywhere but from the places where the idiot speculators have inflated the price. We can't explore, we can't drill, and we can't even use the oil we already have drilled and capped off.

It's lunacy, but (again) Bush and Cheney have NOTHING to do with it.

Oh, and the answer is not to elect somebody even LOONIER about the economy, oil, taxes and business. (Unless you think a full-blown socialist would be an improvement, because that's what the Democrats are.)

[Ol` Joe]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab

Oh, and the answer is not to elect somebody even LOONIER about the economy, oil, taxes and business. (Unless you think a full-blown socialist would be an improvement, because that's what the Democrats are.)

Dems are socialists?? Naaahhhhh, can`t be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ

[fabsroman]

Billy,

There is a lot of things wrong with America, and Bush might be part of it, but I put most of the blame on Americans themselves.

The cost of food and gas isn't what really has the economy at a standstill. It has a lot more to do with Americans in general. Very few Americans are Ants. Instead, they are Grasshoppers. Even worse, along came a Cockroach that offered these Grasshoppers fun in the sun on credit. The Grasshoppers took advantage of this wonderful offer, thinking that money would always be flowing in to pay the bills.

Guess what, winter came along and we now have a huge mess. It is kind of like a snow ball causing an avalanche, and I see it in plenty of my clients. They are driving around in Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and they have debt coming out of their ears. I have one couple that own a townhouse and a single family home, with interest expense of $70,000 a year and they make $180,000 a year. I know they aren't saving a dime. On top of that, they now owe more on the two pieces of property than the properties are worth because they took out home equity loans on them while the market was hot. One owns a Lexus RX330 and the other just bought a new Impala. They both buy new cars every two years, and they just back from a pretty good vacation. I have plenty more clients like that, and have been approached by several clients about declaring bankruptcy, all of whom are driving $30,000+ cars, and some are driving $50,000 cars.

The problem with Americans is that they cannot look into the mirror and blame themselves. Instead, we need to blame the President or somebody else. However, while you are blaming the President, how about blaming the Democrat controlled Congress. The President couldn't pass a single bill without Congress presenting it to him. Plus, if the Democrat controlled Congress could come up with some great new laws, and even if the President vetoed them, Congress could still pass them with a 2/3 vote on them without the President's approval if they are just that great.

As far as I am concerned, the mess we currently have is not just the President's fault. It goes much deeper than that.

I could tell that these 5/1 ARM's were a bad thing and refused to get one even though they were being pushed on me. Thought about refinancing a couple of months ago, and the mortgage broker was still pushing a 5/1 ARM. Honestly, what are people thinking getting themselves into one of those products after everything that has been on the news about them. It is almost like getting into a Ford Pinto and hoping you are never involved in an accident that causes the gas tank to explode.

The problem with America is that Americans haven't been through a tough time in quite a while, especially my generation (i.e., I was only 9 years old when we had the mess with Carter), so they think things will always be rosey. Well, we finally have a tough time on our hands, and I honestly think this goes all the way back to when the stock market was red hot. When that crashed, that was the snow ball that caused this avalanche.

When the stock market was doing great, people were buying on credit because their paper profits looked great. Greenspan even warned people about this. Did they listen? NOPE.

After the market tanked, professional investors were looking for a place to put their money, so they put it into real estate. What is sad is that the average American has been following the trends of the professional investors, but always slightly behind them. I have a client that lost $30,000 in the stock market, then she decided to get into real estate in Miami at the end of 2005 and she is now looking at selling that property at a $40,000 loss, and she has now started trading in foreign currencies. If she had just put her money in the bank she would be $70,000 ahead of the game. She isn't the only client that I have seen with this problem, and some of my friends have been hit with it too. It seems like everybody wants to hit it rich quick. Problem is, they don't know when to get out.

Anyway, after the real estate market tanked, investors moved to oil and oil is now $130 a barrel. Eventually, this will fall too. JUST DON'T INVEST IN OIL RIGHT NOW. One of my clients just dropped $25,000 in an energy mutual fund that is heavily invested in oil. We'll see how that works out.

So, blame the President if it makes you feel better, but he isn't completely to blame. There is enough blame to go around to almost every American.

By the way, when the housing market was going through the roof, my wife and I decided not to extend ourselves to buy the single family house, but we settled on a townhouse. I knew the real estate market was headed for disaster, I just didn't know how bad it would be or how long it would last. Four years later, we are looking pretty good.

I also saw a sign at a church one day that said "Live happier by wanting less." So many people are miserable right now because they want way too much. If every American had made food, shelter, and health their main priority, with saving a set amount as a second priority, then we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in. Instead, Americans spend tons and tons of money to entertain themselves and on possessions that they really don't NEED (e.g., luxury cars, huge homes, vacation homes, entertainment centers).

Do you honestly think McCain, Obama, or Clinton would be the smartest people in the room? Maybe if the room is full of clowns. I just hope that whoever gets elected is smart enough to appoint some really smart people to advise them. I don't even think Bill Clinton is all that smart. Look at the stupid comments he has made recently.

Last but not least, I will agree with you that you shouldn't vote solely on the 2nd Amendment issue, but it should be one of your criteria in evaluating a candidate. If I honestly thought a candidate was going to ruin America, you can bet that I wouldn't vote for him/her just because they were pro 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment isn't going to mean much if we are speaking Chinese or Russian.

Okay, I'm done.

[fabsroman]

I just saw that youtube video. Is that Democrat Congresswoman the smartest woman in the room? Good Lord, what a moron.

What really bugs me is why Congress is wasting all this time and energy on drug use in pro sports and on interviewing the executives of the oil companies, yet they waited until December 26, 2007 to pass a patch to the AMT tax, and it was only good for the 2007 tax year. Mind you, because they passed the patch so late, it caused havoc with the IRS's computer system and forms, so some taxpayers couldn't submit their tax returns until mid February even if they were do a refund. If they submitted their returns before mid February, the return would be returned.

Now, if they don't pass the patch again for 2008, a lot of middle income taxpayers will be subject to the AMT. Without the patch, my wife and I would have paid $1,500 more in taxes.

As far as the pro sports and steroid usage is concerned, I would simply revoke their anti-trust exemption until they came up with a satisfactory plan to test and punish for this stuff, and they implemented said plan. That problem would be solved rather quickly.

As far as oil is concerned, they shouldn't even talk about nationalizing it. Look at the utility companies. Wait until people get their electric bills for this summer. How about the brownouts in California? Yep, all we need is to have the federal government handle something else. They haven't even come up with a fix for social security yet. Ah, but that isn't scheduled to go under until 2042, so who really cares except for the fact that I will have barely started to collect on it when it goes bust.

Oh yeah, now I remember why these politicians are grilling the oil companies. They want the time on TV. That is a free ad campaign.

[Rocky Raab]

Bingo, Fabs. On all counts.

[Purebred Redneck]

Billy, I completly agree with you. I however am a lifelong democrat (who probably isn't going to be welcome on this thread if it's anything like the last few times this "communist" has posted). :rolleyes:
I firmly believe that if Gore were president today for 7 1/2 years we would still have 1.50 gas, the job market would be fine, and the housing market up to 2008 prices.

Housing market - was just a trickle down effect. As a matter of fact it is the only thing in the last 8 years to benifit me because I'm getting ready to buy a house this fall. Of course I don't see an end to this recession any time soon (quite the opposite) but you have to live somewhere. Hopefully 5-10 years from now I can take advantage of another economic boom and come out ahead on the house. So in that, I'm optomistic.

The job market is kinda mixed. The liberal end of my party who wants to spread social culture (the minority of my party) is teaming up with the republicans (I'd still say the minority) who want the illegals here to bring down american labor. And finally it's directly linked to oil prices which cause too much transportation costs for companies, it's caused the american auto industry to lose hundreds of thousands of jobs (because of the truck and SUV plants but also because of the promotion of Toyota who also exploits american labor).
But the oil problem is directly Bush's fault and he's making his billionare cronies into multi-billionares...which was the plan from the start. Clinton stopped big oil in it's tracks. It could of been done again. Instead Bush said he would not do anything as punishment for not allowing him to drill in Alaska --- a refuge set aside so maniacs like him would never be allowed to drill in. All drilling in Alaska would do is give the cronies more money while keeping gas prices the same.

Prior to the 2000 election Bush made it clear that Saddam "tried to kill my daddy" and if given the chance he would take him out. So not only do we have an illegal war for personal vendeta, we have Cheney's cronies who had the contracts in Iraq...no coincidence I'm sure.

And then We elect Bush again when we stand there and let him bash the patriotism of Kerry who proudly served the US military (unlike someone else who stayed home and snorted nose candy).
The last 8 years have been a sham


I know firearms are important to you all (It's not to me - it's a hobby and that's it). I know the NRA pushes the issue every election season (personally I find it to be propaganda). Even if democrats put heavy restrictions on guns (a theory I don't subscribe to) it's doesn't matter anyway because we can't afford to buy them :o

Whatever you views on guns, abortion, gay marriage, etc - you shouldn't be voting on these and then wonder why the economy is messed up. The gun industry uses scare tactics so you vote on inanimate objects and the opportunity to play Rambo, the church uses scare tactics telling everyone that if you vote for a pro-choice candidate it is a sin, the military powers that be uses scare tactics saying that terror is the world's biggest threat.
I believe Obama (not that I like him...I am for my girl Hillary but that ship has sailed) when he says that republicans have tricked people into voting against their economic interests.

I urge everyone to vote based on the economy---that is truely the most important thing we have that we base our entire lives around. That includes gas prices, jobs, healthcare, balancing the budget, etc. And if economic issues tell you to vote Republican - fine - at least you're voting for a valid reason.
Everything else is not important unless everyone has some sort of financial breather in their lives.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Purebred Redneck

I urge everyone to vote based on the economy---that is truely the most important thing we have that we base our entire lives around. That includes gas prices, jobs, healthcare, balancing the budget, etc. .......Everything else is not important unless everyone has some sort of financial breather in their lives.

Most of those who went to work at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and those who boarded 4 commercial airliners on the morning of September 11th, 2001, had "some sort of financial breather in their lives" (whatever that means).

As it turned out, some other things were more important, far more important....and still are.

[skeet]

Yep...we have a big mess again. I have to agree with Rocky. The futures traders are making the bucks off of this oil price escalation. I hope and expect the price to go down dramatically sometime this winter coming. Why do we always blame the woes that come about in this country on the president? Some things he can be lambasted for. The price of oil is not one of them though. As far as jobs and the economy we have quite a few things to blame other than W. Let's look at NAFTA(which W supports but didn't pass into law). When it passed it did away with 1 million UNION jobs immediately and a few million more since becoming law.. And Fabs you are right..the great American people who(as Rocky pointed out) say I want it all and I want it now!! As far as Obama..he isn't a Democrat...he is a Marxist. Hillary is certainly a Socialist. These are 2 types we do not need running this country. The Socialistic Congress(mostly Democrats) are giving our future away to the people who give nothing to this country other than their unearned needs. Unfortunately people who vote only the economy are the worst of the bunch. They have no regard for this country...either for the past or the future. It is that same thing again...I want it ALL and I want it NOW. Personally I support the idea that people should EARN their living instead of having every one else taxed to give them their living. I also personally feel that if you are a dependant of the government voting shoule not be one of your rights. Along with quite a few other rights..that should be earned also. Not dissing people who can not work...but more than 75% of the people on welfare are able to do something. They just won't. Since they CAN vote they make certain they can vote for people who will give them more of this free largess. The free lunch went out with the 1920's...at least in bars. Just in case anyone wants to argue with my statements...I feel that if you are not able to work I think it is up to the earning taxpayers of this country to help such unfortunates along. But at the same time I disagree with allowing them to vote. This is why the welfare system is so screwed up now. People that don't work vote themselves a raise by voting in someone who will support their agenda. Well,duh!! Who does that cost? The gummit?? Who pay the taxes to pay for running this country? Another thing. Tax the rich??Tax big business more?? Usually these are the entities that provide the jobs in this country. Again...DUH!!?? Run business out of the country with higher taxes?? More jobs lost!! I am also at the point in believing we should privatize Social Security. The gummit sure can't run it. They keep "borrowing" money from the fund. Something is wrong there for certain.

Fabs...hadn't you ever heard of "Kerosene" Maxine Waters from Calipornia?? That woman is one of the most obnoxious people in Congress. And not necessarily the smartest person in that August group. May not be the dumbest either. But she do get fired up for certain..hence the moniker "Kerosene Maxine". She is one of the socialists that make sure her constituents that don't earn a living are provided one by the taxpayers.

Aim to Maim..I agree completely with your statement. There certainly are more important things in life than money.

PBR you would vote a few more bucks in your pocket to make you "feel" better and give up any actual rights you have enjoyed for your entire life? All the economic woes we enjoy now are the result of a lot of factors not necessarily under the control of our gummit. Remember that a very strong government CAN take away what you have earned...which they do now anyway...and you want more?? Osama Obama or Hillary will surely grant you your wish. The founders of this country actually fought people that felt the way you do...so that we could remove the people of this country from the yokes of servitude...:rolleyes:

[Jack]

There has been a great deal of debate on the oil issue of late; as one would expect,with all of us being effected by high oil prices. And a lot more heat than light.
Frankly, none of the possible solutions are going to be quick, easy, or painless. And, unfortunately, the response of many of the players in the oil price problem have decided that it's easier to crank up the propaganda machine and make sure the other guy gets blamed.
The current party to point our fingers at seems to be the anonymous 'commodities brokers and speculators'. Commodities brokers and speculators have been trading in oil futures (and any other commodity) since the first barrel of oil came out of the ground. They were never a problem before, but now, all of a sudden, it's them.....
Commodities brokers and speculators are betting that oil will sell for high prices in the future. Have you asked yourself why? Could it be that demand from emerging countries like China and India will keep oil prices high? And the fact that even if we drill every bit of oil in the US, it won't produce enough oil to satisfy demand?
Saudi Arabia points the finger at the evil boogie men 'commodities brokers and speculators'. Does that surprise you? Do you really expect Saudi Arabia to come out and say 'we're screwing you, and we like it' ? If Saudi Arabia really thought it was a problem, all they have to do is publicly offer to sell oil to the US at 60$ a barrel, and the price of oil will drop overnight. But that's not going to happen.
Congress often gets blamed for oil prices - and a lot of other problems. Blaming Congress is easy, and often true. Oil prices didn't start climbing overnight-oil prices have been creeping up for a number of years. Congress hasn't done much about it until very recently, with efforts to get ethanol on the market (that's a whole other debate). Has Congress been pushing alternatives to foreign oil, like wind, solar energy, and nuclear power( yes, the word is nuclear, not nukular- look it up)? And what about all that coal we have in the US? Has Congress been pushing research into ways to use coal without destroying the environment?
And, the 'greenies' often get blamed. I remember in the 60's when 'the greenies' said that oil would some day be in short supply, and expensive. Everybody laughed.
The oil companies, of course, get blamed. They are in business to make money for their stockholders, so they will. If there is a shortage of refinery capacity keeping gasoline and diesel fuel prices high, that's ok with the oil companies. Don't expect oil companies to develop non oil sources of energy. Why should they?
And finally, the Administration gets blamed, and in return blames Congress. One thing to remember is that, when oil prices were rising sharply between 2000 and 2006, Congress was controlled by Republicans, as is the Administration. The Administration in those years could have gotten anything they wanted passed. Take a look at what they did or didn't do in those years.
The cold hard truth is, oil prices won't come down until demand for oil comes down. And as long as we use oil at the rate we are, demand will keep prices as they are today.
And, that, folks, is what no politician wants to tell you. Pointing fingers and blaming the other guy is a lot easier.

[skeet]

I agree with you on most of what you say... But remember we have had speculators in the market place before on many other items. Remember the Hunt Bros? Got the price of Silver waaaayyyy up there..and then the price went to hell in a handbasket. I made great money on silver...and got out while the getting was good. But I was selling an actual commodity with intrinsic value(US coins). Same with land in the past...the housing market has been through the same thing in my memory at least 4 times. On a downswing right now...and it adds to economic woes. Speculation is a risky business. If you are at the top of the pyramid..you'll be ok..if you remember to get out while the market is still up there. Remember Emron or whatever it was?? Same thing for all intents and purposes. Just a bit smaller scale. Speculation!:rolleyes: Bad for (real) business

[Purebred Redneck]

Originally posted by skeet
PBR you would vote a few more bucks in your pocket to make you "feel" better and give up any actual rights you have enjoyed for your entire life?

No I wouldn't


And this hasn't happened. In all of the 20th century, no democratic president has ever taken away any of my rights. Neither would Obama or Hillary.
When organizations and politicians say things like that, it's 100% propaganda in order to get moderates to vote republican, independant, or libertarian. I don't even listen to it anymore.

[skeet]

Don't know how old you are but if you think that you haven't lost any "rights" you sure haven't been looking! Take yer rose colored glasses off. Don't I remember you have a small business?? Ya better check out what Obama and Hillary both are saying about all businesses. The word change is a great motivator...But change from this to what?? Have you heard any real ideas other than rhetoric?? Anything other than take from the rich and give to the poor. Neither one is a Robin Hood. They aren't ever going to be. In this day no politician is really out to help every American citizen. What do you think of the idea of taking the vote away from people that do not contribute to this country? I'm talking of the ones able to work that will not

[fabsroman]

Jack,

I love your post, but who is to blame? We have to blame somebody. Should we blame Saudi Arabia?

Honestly, if we don't develop alternative sources for energy other than oil, and develop them sometime soon, I think we will be going to war with China in the near future.

PBR,

I think you have been swayed a little too much by the Democrats. Voting based solely upon the economy is just as smart as voting based upon the 2nd Amendment. The Democrats want you to believe that they are the answer to the problem with the economy, but they aren't. The economy will rise and fall, and that is just how it goes. Today's reports show that the GDP of the nation actually increased in the first quarter of 2008. How about giving W. a pat on the back. We'll have to wait and see what future quarters return on GDP.

We just have a lot of stuff going on at the same time that is causing this huge headache.

By the way PBR, have you saved any money for a rainy day? If so, the economy really shouldn't be hurting you that much and you should be able to get through this adjustment period. If you are just buying your first house, I will assume that you are rather young. Now, wait until you have acquired some wealth that the government wants to take away from you.

Honestly, I think every American could have plenty of breathing room if they didn't fall for every ad on TV and want everything under the sun. We should all want more free time to spend with our family and out in the fields, and not more guns to look at in our safes while we spend all our time working for them. We should all want financial security instead of every material possession and vacation imaginable. Yes, I would love one of every gun and a vacation to every remote place in the world, but not at the expense of my financial security.

I cannot tell you the number of clients I have that have put nothing away for retirement, that have debt up the wazzoo, that continue to spend on material things, and that continue to take vacations like there is nothing to worry about. Me, I'm worried about what is going to happen to these people when they are 60, 70, 80. The current generation just does not know how to save money.

See, it is really hard for me to have any sympathy for people when they are crying about the economy but they have flat screen TV's hanging on the wall and new cars in the driveway, and I have plenty of clients like that.

The sad thing is that I don't really like any of the candidates that are running for President. We'll just have to see what the next President does for the nation.

[Jack]

Fabs, as far as who is to blame?
There's a few folks you can blame- I wasn't trying to decide that for you. I have my opinions; yours might be different.
I will leave you with a quote from the old comic strip, Pogo.
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
:D

[Larryjk]

The high price of oil can be blamed on your 401(k) account. You made a lot of money. Guess what the folks that manage your account were buying!
Compare it to the cost of lead, a shooters commodity. Last October (07) the price of lead hit almost $4,000 a metric ton. A year and some before then it was $600 the same metric ton. Had been that way for years. It is now down to a little under $2000 a metric ton. I don't think it will ever go all the way back to $600.
Some say it is the Chinese need for lead for batteries. Their new nuclear navy used a lot of lead in reactor shielding. They have quit buying and the price is going down because the speculators are losing their butt.

[Rocky Raab]

Just remember this, PBR...

If the US elects Barack, it will be an Obama-nation.

[fabsroman]

Talking about the price of lead, I was in shock when I was in Wal-Mart the other day and saw Remington STS shotshells for $7.64 a box. Last I could remember, they were $5.00 a box and that wasn't too long ago. Amazing how something could increase 50% in a year or two.

[Larryjk]

The price of lead shot went from about $12/25lb. before the speculators started to about $50.00/25lb. @ Sportsman's Warehouse at the present time. Needless to say, but the sport of skeet and trapshooting have been seriously affected by the price of lead. Many folks are now shooting 7/8 oz. loads instead of 1 1/8 oz. in the 12 gauge. The .410 has become poppular for skeet and reloading for it has become popular. Try to find a used .410 loader for sale.
If the price goes down (on lead) it will be interesting to see how many flks are going to go back to 1 1/8 oz. loads in the 12 gauge. The 7/8oz. loads and 24 gram international loads are not very different. There are some problems with velocity according to ATA velocity rules. Not all trap and skeet shooting is registered birds.