EMERGENCY ALERT! Mexico Military Raid a home in Phoenix, Arizona

[bulletpusher]

It has been reported this morning in Houston, Texas that the Mexican Military raided into Phoenix, Arizona (125 miles inside the United States) and attacked a home. They fire more than 100 rounds into the house and killed the individual inside.

As they were leaving they set up an ambush to attack the local Police Department personel. Luckily the Phoenix SWAT unit was entering the area and attacked the ambush before it was completed.

Two vehicles were involved in the attack by Mexico and one of those vehicles was caught by the Phoenix Police, when the bad guys ran out of ammo. The other one got away, as repored by the Phoenix Police Chief on the Radio.

People it appears that we are at WAR and no one is answering the call for the defence of The United States of America.

God Help Us!

Bulletpusher

[fabsroman]

I cannot believe that this hasn't made the main stream media. Are we sure that it was the Mexican military? If it was, how the heck can they be 125 miles beyond their border and screwing up like that? IF the Phoenix SWAT was on the scene, do we have any dead Mexican military bodies as proof, or at least some detainees?

[fabsroman]

Yep, it looks like this really happened. These guys had AR-15's on them and fired between 50 and 100 rounds into the house. Thank God SCOTUS ruled the way it did on the right to bear arms. Now, maybe people will be able to shoot back. The guy who got killed might have deserved it, but it is disturbing to think that people from another country can just walk 125 miles into the US with tactical gear and AR-15's on them. I wonder if we would have noticed if it were 1,000 instead of a couple?

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/06/mexican-army-members-raid-phoenix-home.html

[Rocky Raab]

Don't jump to massive conclusions. One of the three criminals captured claimed to have a "military background." That does not translate to the Mexican Army invading Phoenix.

This was apparently a drug cartel assassination (scary enough, it is true!) but it is a LONG leap to claim the Mexican Army has invaded.

[Dan Morris]

Turf wars......drug related or a paid hit!Not jumping to background . The TW's are getting common on the border....in fact, almost every where in the western states!
JNO
Dan
:cool:

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Don't jump to massive conclusions. One of the three criminals captured claimed to have a "military background." That does not translate to the Mexican Army invading Phoenix.

This was apparently a drug cartel assassination (scary enough, it is true!) but it is a LONG leap to claim the Mexican Army has invaded.

Glad someone else here still knows how to read and think critically and rationally.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I see it as people that used their military training and access to equipment to carry out their drug war and it happened here...and I am sure they calculated a response by swat into their equation...I just wonder how so many was able to escape....Money talks no matter what country you live in.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Now the scary part...what if it were the Mexican Army and they were out to attack?...How did they get so far inside the border in the first place?.....Someone at the border must of been sleeping (paid) but I bet they already had their clothes, equipment on this side of the border..I am sure they didn't cross dressed in black, toting their guns....and get that far x border....but our military is elsewhere...how can they protect American borders anyhow. It would be a good time to attack America. War without, weakness within.

[DON WALKUP]

scary stuff!

it doesn't matter whether they are mexican troops or not. that's a brazen way to do things. mexico arms their troops with FNs don't they? if these guys had just AR's (NOT m-16 with full auto capability) i would question if they were truly mexican troops. i also would think more like rocky raab...drug cartels operation.

i'm sure it will be figured out. if it turns out to be mexican troops i'd say mexico has some answering to do.

another good reason to make sure our borders are sealed.

this should be yet another "wake up" call to americans about what's taking place on and around our southern border.

i agree about the recent SCOTUS decision about the citizens right to own firearms. at least the neighbors could defend themselves if the need arose.

[rattus58]

Personally, if you crossed the border illegally, I'm wondering how come we aren't sending a 20MM into the crowds personally. We have snipers in Iraq doing 300 to 1000 yard shots with 30-06's, .308's, and the lovely .50's. Personally I'm tired of the rhetoric from all these apologists for the Mexican Government and illegals. Our country is our castle... we should have some kind of home invasion protection for our borders.

It's like pigs. Sure they are great eating (benefit to the public) but tear up crops, fields, pastures, and compete for food for our own native wildlife. Is the answer to trap and kill (the multiply worse than rabbits from adolescents... sound familiar?) or to trap and take them back to next door from where they came?

I think armed predators should be flying along the borders and just take out a few as the touch the line. An armed AC130... now that would be "spooky"... We could translocate a few of them poor california condors to the border for clean-up what's wrong with that? Then maybe we could get back to hunting again... :)

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by skeeter@ccia.com
I just wonder how so many was able to escape....Money talks no matter what country you live in.

Corruption exists in U.S. law enforcement agencies, from the FBI on down. But to suggest, without one shred of evidence, that suspects were not apprehended because someone in the Phoenix Police Department is on the take, is WAAYY over the top.

[Lilred]

no comprende mucho bullscheetio amigos.....:p ;)

[Rocky Raab]

Si, PoquitoRojo!

[GoodOlBoy]

como estes frijoles?

:D

GoodOlBoy

[bulletpusher]

Whapeen Calon, PePe?

[fabsroman]

Skeeter,

I honestly don't even fear an attack by Mexico or Canada. Do you really think either of those countries could sustain an attack against us, or even take over the country? I think we have enough troops here, the national guard, and reservists, that could put up one hell of a fight to win, and even if they couldn't win on their own they could make it tough enough and long enough on any bordering country that the rest of our forces would be able to get back here.

Me, I worry about things like China, Russia, and starvation. Supposedly, India is going to be the next country with 1 billion people. That is a lot of mouths to feed. If people are starving now, wait a decade or two as the population continues to grow.

Last but not least, I seriously agree that our borders have to be better protected. I am all for a border policy akin to Israel. It would suck to make an example of a couple of border crossers by killing them, but I guarantee that it would get the point across. Then again, God forbid if we ever need Mexico's help down the road.

[skeet]

Ya gotta leave them frijoles alone man. Them things is bad fer ya. Specially when ya on a diet.:D :D

[gumpokc]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Skeeter,



Me, I worry about things like China, Russia, and starvation. Supposedly, India is going to be the next country with 1 billion people. That is a lot of mouths to feed. If people are starving now, wait a decade or two as the population continues to grow.


I agree with ya Fabs, but one little thing...India past the billion mark about 5 years ago. It's current population is roughly 1,125,000,000 give or take 10 million depending where you check for info.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I don't know...but I do think if it came down to it and we did happen to get invaded from anyone....those of us old military boys/girls or not....would dig out our arms and have at it....what ya think?...Now I am talking tanks etc marching down our streets because as far as I am concerned, we are already gettin invaded..just not in a military or confrontational way....but is still killing this Country....and what is spooky is I think Obama is going to get pres...even if we don't vote for him....I think that is in the books already....sure hope I am wrong....

[Lilred]

Ya know Skeeter...I could not imagine NOT doin so.
Tanks or not, I would rather die attemptin to protect my children than to die meek and beaten.
Me and my guns would fight....
With the price of gas, food and we just got the notice that our electric bill is goin up 18% yesterday..lol...things are going to be hard.
For the past year, my focus has been on the 4 things any human needs to survive: food/water, shelter and heat. I have all 3, wether or not I have electricity, a grocery store or a vehicle. Now, that my seem ludicrous to some...but what if hubby loses his job? If people stop buying/fixing cars..(and it's already started btw) then what? While most may not remember the great depression, i surely dont want to be another statistic of one, today or in the future.
Think of how many children would starve if their parents could not afford or get to a grocery store. Seriously....

[GoodOlBoy]

Lilred you ain't just whistlin dixie. I know alot of people that can't make it without everything storebought. I have three good creeks for fish that are an EASY walk from the house. I didn't plant a garden this year like I should have, and I haven't gotten the late garden in yet, but believe me I will at the end of the month. I have a good spring on the property, and a decent home. That leaves electricity. I can cook on a fire with the best of 'em. Ain't sayin it will be easy, but I am sayin I can do it. And like you I ain't rollin over an playin dead to NOBODY.

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

Have been puttin up strawberry jam lately. Just picked some more this morn. We have some maters acomin on and we'll can a bunch of them and make some tomato sauce fer spaghetti and chili. The beans is comin up purty good and momma has beets.(boy has she got beets. Taters are abloomin so soon I can eat me some new taters. Corn is lookin good. the grapes is growing(next year they'll bear as will the raspberries. We even got pole beans a growin. Hope they make a few. The apple trees is pretty full so we can have applesauce. Cabbage is lookin good and the broccoli goes in the end of this month. Guess we'll be able to eat a little. I even got watermelon..get me some pork ribs and barbeque them devils and have the watermelon after. YEEEEHAAAAWWW. Just gotta say...I'm glad I ain't no Yankee....errr...aaahhhhh. I ain't meanin to step on no toes. Y'all have ta unnerstand..I did marry a yankee...but I dint have no choice. Her daddy had a shotgun!!!:D :D :D :D An he was a southern boy!

[GoodOlBoy]

Lol. Yep them shotgun totin fathers is sumthin else. With my in-law experience he woulda been tryin ta keep me away not the other way round.

It ain't to say we ain't got produce a commin in. I had a few blueberries this year, my blackberries didn't do much, and my plums did less. My strawberries have just started puttin little ones on, but then they was planted late too. I have several neighbors who planted more than they needed again this year (like we all usually do) so they are payin back some of the kindness we have spread in the past. You can bet yer behind though that this time next year I will have a good garden goin (and be spreadin the kindness again)

Been waitin fer the man down the road to start sellin peas again. Last year we were buyin purplehulls from him for $4 a bushel, this year it will probably go up some, but we sure do get alot of jars to put up from just a few bushels.

GoodOlBoy

[fabsroman]

If her father was a southern boy, how the hell was she a yankee?

[skeet]

Usually born in the north. Darn girl was born on Long Island. He was a southern fellow that just happened to be recovering from (many) wounds received in the war. The man fought with the Brits commando teams for 3 yrs then was reattached to the 3rd army(Patton's). He was wounded 9 times in the ensuing 4 yrs..the last time pretty bad. They put him in a hospital in New York. Can't believe it but he married a yankee. Her momma wasn't too awful keen about me for a while...course she was a yankee(said with a sneer):D :D What we really need though is to seal our borders and only allow in who we need to...and only for short periods of time. We have to get a handle on the illegal problem

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Skeet I think we all at HC seem to agree with the border problem and what needs done but if any one of us spoke that in public, we would hurt someones feeling and we would end up being the bad guy...and again, nothing would ever get done about it.....just those like us at HC will still sit around and say what the problems are and what should be done...and hand someone a towel to dry their tears from hurt feelings.....think any body will ever actually act on it?

[fabsroman]

Does Congress really do anything about the serious issues? They just punted on the AMT tax, which unless it gets patched later on during the year, will mean that more middle income Americans, including yours truly, will be paying a good amount more in taxes. The AMT was put in place 40 years ago to prevent the rich from getting around paying taxes, and it hasn't been indexed for inflation since. $100K was worth a lot more 40 years ago than it is today.

The illegal problem won't be solved until it is a huge problem. Personally, I think we should just take over central america up to the Panama Canal, and use the Panama canal as our border fence. With all the Mexicans and other nationalities that we acquire from the takeover, we would have plenty of people willing to relocate and work.

[skeet]

When(hopefully I am wrong) Osama Obama gets elected it sure ain't gonna get solved. In fact I think he will just turn his back on the problem and let more happen. That man is going to be the ruination of this country in my opinion. Might be time to take the problems into our own hands.:rolleyes:

[Rocky Raab]

Well, there are Costa Ricans, and there are Puerto Ricans. If things keep going the way they are here, we won't be Americans anymore, we'll be Ame Ricans.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by fabsroman

Personally, I think we should just take over central america up to the Panama Canal, and use the Panama canal as our border fence. With all the Mexicans and other nationalities that we acquire from the takeover, we would have plenty of people willing to relocate and work.

Just what we need, several million more citizens to vote for Democratic Party candidates who will promise them the moon. :confused:

They will be willing to work not one day more than they have to. Once they are eligible for food stamps and free health care, etc., you will see a decided change in their "work ethic."

Besides, if it's that good an idea, why stop at the Panama Canal? Why not just go all the way to Tierra del Fuego?

[fabsroman]

I think that most of the illegal immigrants are hard workers. Granted, they are poor, but they are still hard workers that will try to make ends meet. The few bad ones are the ones that give the rest of them a bad name.

I would prefer to have all of them registered, trackable, and paying taxes versus working as illegals. Simply shipping all of them back probably will not work because finding all of them is the problem. Giving them a way to become a citizen and closing off the border at the same time, would be the best way to solve this. Of course, anybody that has a bad criminal record would need to go back.

We should also crack down on businesses that hire them. Over 300 illegals were found at a chicken processing plant somewhere in the midwest I believe, and while they were rounded up and the small town was decimated of its population, not a single fine was levied against the corporation, even though each instance carries a $25,000 fine. Maybe, just maybe, if the federal government were to enforce these fines against big business, big business, and maybe small business, would think twice about hiring illegals. For the past couple of years, businesses have been able to access the SSA records to verify SS#'s upon hiring people, so why do we still have this problem? It is because the illegals are willing to work hard for very little money.

As far as medicaid and welfare are concerned, those are problems in and of themselves.

[Larryjk]

fabsroman, I hear what you are saying, especially about the corporations not getting fined for hiring illegals. But, I can't go along with giving illegals citizenship. There are all kinds of "legal green carded" workers from other countries that came here to work legally. They don't expect citizenship, but would certainly stay if they could become citizens.
I can't see rewarding people with citizenship who come here illegally and many have absolutely no alliegence to this country, in fact hate it. Many Mexican illegals feel they should have a right to be here because the southwest was once a part of Mexico. The last President down there filled their heads with that BS.
I saw a large road coming down to the Rio Grande, with a large turn around at the end, and asked what it was. Our landowner host said that was where the govenment bus (Mexican)brings people to let them make illegal entry into the US. That kind of BS shouldn't be allowed, but it was on the "other" side of the river.

[fabsroman]

It really is a tough situation. I've dealt with plenty of south americans that want nothing more than to become a part of the US, and they have nothing bad to say about it. Yes, I agree that there is a lawful way to do this and they should have followed it, but we have a problem on our hands that isn't very easy to solve.

Kind of like giving tax amnesty to those who fraudulently filed their taxes or didn't file taxes at all. Why should they be given amnesty when the rest of us paid our taxes on time? Why shouldn't they be thrown in jail?

If we allow the "good" illegals a time period to become citizens and require them to jump through a couple of hoops to accomplish it (e.g., learn English, learn about the US, have a clean criminal record, pay some arbitrary amount in illegal taxes, and rat out those that hired them illegally), then maybe we can solve this problem to a certain degree. On top of that, we could fine the heck out of the companies that hire them, and maybe that might just put an end to all of this. If illegals cannot find employment in the US, then I am willing to bet that they will not want to make the trip over here.

The problem is what do we do with the ones that are already here? If they cannot find employment anymore, do you think they will just merely get on the next bus to Mexico or whatever their home country is? If they have little kids to feed, don't you think that some might resort to crime to make ends meet? Would that be any better for our country?

The illegal immigration issue isn't a black and white issue, except for closing off the border. That matter should be clear as day. Close off the border and then figure out what to do with those that are already here.

[skeet]

Sorry but I have to disagree. The illegal problem is just that...a black and white issue.. OK if you want to give the "good" illegals some points for being good..fine. BUT send them home and make 'em apply for LEGAL immigration. Or let them come here, acquire a green card and them come work....and pay taxes and abide by our laws. Too many don't abide by our laws...and we as tax paying citizens pay for them. BUT to give them a free pass just because they are good people is wrong. How about all the ones who did it legally. Your parents came here legally.. So did my great grandparents on my fathers side. They learned the language and assimilated themselves into society. That is NOT what is happening here. These people are coming here at the behest of their OWN governmentin many cases. It is not just about a better place to live. It is about money and control..power if you will. Sure some come to make a better life for themselves...but wayyy too many send most of that good ol US currency out of this country. What would happen to... say... Mexico... if the flow of cash stopped?? Think of it. Giving a pass to US citizens on tax filing is one thing... Giving anything to ILLEGAL aliens is not right! Look at so many that drive an illegally tagged car..no insurance..no license and have killed citizens with those cars. What do they do to them?? The driver may go to jail..or maybe get deported. The passengers get ...released:confused: :rolleyes:

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

It isn't a black and white issue because it isn't as easy as waving a magic wand and sending them all back from whence they came. The problem is finding all of them to send them back.

I was over in Church Creek a couple of weeks ago for a time trial that my cycling team was putting on. I had to road guard a couple of corners along with a couple of officers. One of the officers told me that he had a hispanic man admit to him that he was illegal, so he called INS to see what they wanted to do about it. INS told him that they would not bother with it unless he had 10 or more illegals to process. Honestly, I don't understand that.

I have also seen illegals go through our legal system, and they do not even get deported. I do not understand why it is so hard for INS and law enforcement to get on the same page about this. If somebody gets arrested, you determine if they are legal or not, and if not, they get sent to INS after their Court hearing and/or they serve their time in jail. For some reason, this is extremely hard to accomplish and I am betting because there is a bunch of red tape and hoops that need to be jumped through.

In an ideal world, yes, all the illegals should be deported, the budget should be balanced, the nations deficit should be paid back, and trade deficit should be a surplus, Toyota would not be the #1 car manufacturer in the world, we would have cars running on alternative fuel. The problem is figuring out how to accomplish all of this. Yes, the ideals are black and white, but the process of getting there is the problem and the really gray area.

[skeet]

Hate to say it...but now you are talking just like a lawyer. Of course those are ideals..but it is still a black and white issue. Just because no one in the power grid wants to take the bull by the horns doesn't mean it is gray. Red tape? Of course it is. Stupid?? Of course it is What is so hard with sending them back home. If they have any money...use their own money to pay for the trip back across the border..sheesh.Need a lawyer for them?? Why?? They are illegal!! sheesh

[skeet]

I am not going to post this link on Hunt Chat but go to you tube and type in the Guy from Boston..Harsh laws. You may not like the guys language but listen to what he says. Might be time to go along with those (common sense??)rules

[Larryjk]

I have a cousin in the real estate business in the metro Phoenix area. Since the new laws that Arizona passed, and is enforcing, on hiring "illegal" aliens have come into effect. there is a sizable vacancy in rentals.
Seems there was a mass scurrying for the border when the word got out about the new laws.
My grandson is going to Arizona State and he said rentals are a lot easier to find and a lot lower priced. Supply and demand.
It has become noticable by the government on both sides of the border that the new laws had a sizeable impact. They are not happy about it south of the border because it has put a burden on what few services they have.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by fabsroman
..... INS told him that they would not bother with it unless he had 10 or more illegals to process. Honestly, I don't understand that.

I have also seen illegals go through our legal system, and they do not even get deported. I do not understand why it is so hard for INS and law enforcement to get on the same page about this. If somebody gets arrested, you determine if they are legal or not, and if not, they get sent to INS after their Court hearing and/or they serve their time in jail. For some reason, this is extremely hard to accomplish and I am betting because there is a bunch of red tape and hoops that need to be jumped through.



INS (ICE) is grossly understaffed and underfunded, and yes, there is a bunch of red tape and hoops to be jumped through. In most instances, it is not a matter of ICE agents not wanting to do their jobs.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by fabsroman

...The problem is what do we do with the ones that are already here? If they cannot find employment anymore, do you think they will just merely get on the next bus to Mexico or whatever their home country is?...

A significant number of them would do exactly that. See Larryjk's post below. We had a similar phenomenon is my town a few months back. A major employer stopped hiring and dismissed several hundred illegal aliens under threat of sanctions. Rental vacancy rates elevated considerably and some businesses that catered to illegals closed shop. Interestingly, the number of calls that the police department had to respond to plummeted.

[fabsroman]

What kills me is that we already have a federal law in effect that levies a maximum fine of $25,000 per illegal. If that were enforced, I don't think we would have any problems with employers giving illegals jobs. If the chicken factory with 300+ illegals were fined accordingly, that would have been $7.5 million. If that didn't drive them out of business, it would make them think twice about hiring another illegal. The feds should really take some heat for that one, which they did in the media. There wasn't a problem with shipping the illegals back in that case, just a problem with fining the employer. As far as I am concerned, the problem lies with the employers.

[skeet]

If the companies were fined for this hiring practice...it would help tremendously. BUT there is another problem. Where would the company get people to work?? We need to cut the payment of welfare to people who are ABLE to work but choose not to. They will NOT starve. Guess what?? They will actually find a job. If we need to address this problem in a way that we would have to call it work fare..OK. Welfare for those who are NOT able to work...Not one penny for the rest. One child on welfare..Have a second and you lose the money for the first...and lose them both to adoption....or have the ladies tubes tied after the first. Harsh , you say?? How many children did you have? How many can you support. Well if you had the normal average...you are supporting every other one that is born...even if they are not yours. Is that right. Yep..it is harsh but it does make sense. We cannot afford to pay for all the welfare kids and the illegal kids and our own too. It just goes against all common sense. But wait till Obama is president...he'll find a way to pay for all this...but it will be more coming out of YOUR pockets. That is his brand of change... More taxes to pay for the ones who choose not to work. Now I am going to bed. Got to get over my rant!:D

[fabsroman]

You will never be able to have a mother's tubes tied and you will almost never be able to take kids away from a mother/father unless they are really unfit parents. The first is unconstitutional and rather harsh because that mother might eventually get her stuff together and want more kids. The second just doesn't happen very easily.

With that said, I am all for getting rid of Welfare, Section 8 housing, and a bunch of other programs for all those other than the ones that CANNOT work. However, getting rid of those programs will end up hurting the children, but if you get rid of those programs, maybe it will be easier to show that the parents are unfit to raise their children, and the children can be put up for adoption to better adoptive parents that will show the children how to work for a living and save for the things they want.

Welfare and government handouts are a big mess. Kind of like the government bailing out everybody that is going through foreclosure. People need to learn the hard way. 100 years ago, if you had a bunch of kids and didn't take care of them, they died. Plain and simple. People weren't having kids for increased welfare benefits, but truly understood the responsibility of having a child.

[skeet]

Can't be done...at least not in the societal atmosphere we have today. I also know that those things were done in the past. In Maryland no less. I saw more than one kid taken from their parents. Know why it was done?? Because they needed to be taken. Not because the kids were beaten or any thing like that. Nope. They were taken because they couldn't provide the basics for their own kids. This happened right on the eastern shore in the late 50's early 60's. I saw it. I also knew of a few women whose tubes were tied...not by the gummit...but by a caring doctor(he did this clear into the mid 70's). This was of course before the welfare state got going like it is now. There wasn't a whole lot of work available in the late 50's through the 60's on the eastern shore. June July and August the black and white folk who needed to work were waiting on the corner in the little town where I lived..waiting for the farmers who had straw or hay cut and baled. Provided a little money to someone who wanted to work or ones who needed the money. By the mid to late 60's I was almost alone on that corner. Welfare changed people that quickly. There was a lot of seasonal work in those times. The Eastern shore was an agricultural area ya know? My father even provided work for a person or two(plus unpaid me). He was a waterman. And when I was in school he needed help. The world was a different place then...where the people did not and could not depend on the government to do for them. Time to go back to those ideals..Past time in fact! Just as a note...many families that had a lot of children...especially farm folk had them to do the work necessay on a farm. They raised their own food...and took care of their own. It was a hard life...but usually a pretty good one too.

[Larryjk]

Skeet, "Where would we get the people that want to work"?
There are all kinds of workers from countries all over the world who are waiting in line just to get here to work. They are coming under work visas and being very legal, going back after the visa and permits run out. The reason why they comply is so that they can come back again. Some want to stay here and others just want to come here to work and then go back to their native country. I don't have a problem with either type because they are following the law.
Most of the imported labor around here used to be illegals from south of the border. Now we are getting groups on work permits from Europe and the Far East. Even had a group from South Africa. Mostly students who work in motels and resturants. Usually very pleasant and trying to learn our version of english.

[skeet]

It is refreshing to have people come here to work. Have seen some from Russia and former russian states here. They all wanted to work and learn the language. But that really isn't the problem. We have to get the ones that are "citizens" that don't want to work back into the loop. Work fare...but make those people productive.. And if they choose not to produce..take away their right to vote and extend the bureaucracy. I don't want anyone to lose their rights. I just want them to be responsible for themselves. Choosing NOT to work and making us responsible for them isn't the answer to anything...other than perpetuating that way of life. This isn't a black or white issue either... More than half the people on welfare are other than black ya know. If they aren't able to work...fine. I don't mind my taxes going to help them. But if able and choosing not to..NO I do not want my tax money going to them. Illegals and people with green cards should NOT be able to get any types of welfare or family aid moneys either. They should have to be real citizens. Not just the run across the border to be born kind. They aren't real citizens and just help to bankrupt the systems. I also want to reduce the amount of foreign aid that leaves this country. In some instances we get value for some of it..but in too many cases we only get more grief from those countries. If I hear Yankee go home...well hell..I'll go home and take my money with me. Doesn't make sense?? Harsh again?? I really think it does make sense and don't think it is harsh. I know it sounds simplistic et al but sometimes simple is the way things should be done. Why make everything so much harder. Good grief..If anyone ran for pres on these terms they would be shot out of hand...especially by the democraps...who are nothing other than socialists.

[Larryjk]

skeet, We are on the same wave length. I remember how tough it was when I was first starting out and would go grocery shopping for my wife. I saw people buying better food than I could afford (steaks, etc) and paying with stamps. They were dressed better than I, droved a much newer car than I, and stopped by the liquor store with the change from their grocery purchase. I was pi--ed off, swore I would never stoop that low, and never had to. But I wasn't scared to work. The idea that the folks back in DC want to give all of these types their "rights and entitlements" makes me want to vote every sob out of office. I think we have two entitlements; to be born and to die. Everything in between takes a little blood, sweat, and tears.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by skeet
....We have to get the ones that are "citizens" that don't want to work back into the loop. Work fare...but make those people productive.. And if they choose not to produce..take away their right to vote and extend the bureaucracy. I don't want anyone to lose their rights. I just want them to be responsible for themselves. Choosing NOT to work and making us responsible for them isn't the answer to anything...other than perpetuating that way of life. ...

Exactly Skeet. Take a look around at all the able-bodied citizens in their late teens and twenties who are idle (and getting into mischief) at all hours of the day and night. The concept of a "labor shortage crisis" that would erupt if we made it impossible to hire illegal aliens is a myth.

[skeet]

We have to make those who do not want to work..go work. I was going to say back to work...but waaayyy too many never have worked. Too easy to collect welfare and food stamps. And as far as food stamps. Originally it was ONLY for the basics..now they can buy almost anything with them. Don't want the kids to suffer...but originally welfare was only till you could go BACK to work if possible. Ain't that way any more The only way I can see them being coerced to work is make 'em hungry. That really doesn't seem right but I cannot see any other way....well I can but those other ideas may seem a bit harsh. Oh and one other thing..Make fathers responsible for their children. We can find out who the fathers are...we already know the mothers. These are common sense ideas. Not harsh...just smart:confused:

[fabsroman]

I read something pretty interesting the other day. The largest entitlement program is social security, followed closely by Medicare. Welfare is much lower in the tax dollar amount spent each year.

[skeet]

But don't forget..Social Security recipients had to have paid into the system(or someone did) as well as Medicare. Welfare is totally different

[fabsroman]

Welfare isn't completely different unless the person has never worked a day in their life. If they have worked and paid taxes, they have paid into welfare, plain and simple. There just isn't the equivalent of a social security or medicare line on their pay check for welfare.

Now, if somebody hasn't worked a day in their life, then they are living off of you and I.

Another issue I have is with how poorly the federal government runs both social security and medicare. It is utterly nuts. I would rather keep my social security contribution and invest it myself, rather then let them handle it for me. What they started a long time ago that was something good, has turned into a disaster.

[DON WALKUP]

does anyone remember the movie "red dawn" starring patrick swayze? the commies invaded the u.s. via airborne and a ground borne invasion up from mexico.

sorry...that'll never happen.

IF anything of that nature were to occur, it would be from covert infiltration by way of mexico & canada and then assemlbing an army/force somewhere within CONUS. not a very likley scenerio.

we'll fall from within...we'll crumble from our own big time mistakes. we're in the process of it now. history is repetative. that's been proven time and time again. rome is the classic example but there are many, many more if a person cares to look into history.

for example, look at the lack of response from congress to actually seal the borders...the lack of action from congress to open our own energy sources to name two examples.

i watched nancy pelosi/congress yesterday on c-span and i am truly astonished at how much of a time lag there is for reaction involving ANY issue; just about the time the bear is getting ready to eat us, they say they'd better do something...

[fabsroman]

Agreed.