Shortage of deer in PA?

[petey]

I was never a real advocate of all the new hunting seasons and the 2 week long season of antlerless deer, however I believe the deer around my area are way more in balance then they used to be.

If you look at the harvest records for PA on the PAGC website, we're right back where we used to be prior to the "slaughter". The reason? Not sure really. I'm sure there's lots of variables.
I hear a lot of people saying there are no deer anymore. Granted, I no longer see the herds of 50 doe with the single tailing scrub buck, but is that truely what a herd should be? 50-1 ratio? Yeah, my first year of hunting, this sight was common. The average buck never lived past 1.5 yrs and if you saw a 2.5 yr old WOW!!

3 nights ago I made a quick ride within 2 miles around my place. I spotted 29 bucks and 28 does! I'm sure a lot of it has to do to the fact that it's private property, but this is what I want my herd to be. 1-1. Over the past 5 years I've had my choice of bucks. I let the littler bucks go for someone else buck of lifetime and I shoot 3.5 - 4.5 year olds. Of the 29 I saw, 4 were close to if not over P&Y minimum of 120". You know, your typical 18-19" 10 point with 8" and 7" G2's and G'3, 4-5" G'3. 5-7 years ago, those sightings were very uncommon, but 4-5 in 30 mins? All I can say is, it's worked in my neck of the woods. I was always a fan of the point restriction. We're now seeing bucks way past that 1.5 yr range. I'm still not sure I totally agree with the slaughter of the doe, but it sure put our herd in balance.

I don't want to start a flame war, but what are you seeing in your neck of PA? I'm seeing a 2-1 or 1-1 ratio. I LOVE IT! Come archery I can let more than 15 legal bucks walk buy before I shoot one. I have the past 3 years in a row and it looks like this year won't be any different. I have my eye on several nice bucks.

[fabsroman]

Trust me, you need to kill does. Down here in Maryland, the deer population is a nightmare, and it doesn't get any better if you don't kill does. You definitely wouldn't be getting a 1-1 ratio if you only killed the bucks, and then the bucks would also be competing with a ton of does for food. Killing does reduces the number of deer per square mile, and helps provide food for the remaining deer, which translates into better health. On my drive home tonight from my parents this evening, I saw 30 deer out in a small field. There isn't much hunting anywhere around that field, so the population is insane.

[Adam Helmer]

petey,

I bought my 60-acre farm in 1988 and used to see 8, 10 or 12 deer in my 20-acre hayfield every night. I now see one deer all Summer long. Yes, there is a deer shortage in Richmond Township, Tioga County, PA as I know it.

I told Gary Alt in 2002 at the Mansfield, PA High School if he wanted to BALANCE the PA Buck To Doe RATIO, merely stop archers in PA from killing 30,000 bucks pre-rut for ONE year! Gary ignored my input on the ratio matter.

As of today, I still see very few deer here. I say there is a continuing SHORTAGE of deer on my farm compared to 1988.

Adam

[buckhunter]

We have been having a doe problem for a few years around here. Most of the deer I see are doe's. In fairness to the Fish & Game they try very hard to keep the population down but due to the heavy anti hunting element is really tuff to find a decent spot where there are a lot of deer.

Most of the heavy populations are in small woodlots in the burbs. We archery hunt on 25 acres and so far we have identified about 7 or 8 deer on that property. Granted there are a couple hundred acres behind that property that hold deer also. Most of the hunters in this are aren't as lucky as Iam. We have sole accress to private property.

In the big woods areas in Mass the population is still mostly does. These get hammered pretty hard during the season but they just do not issue enough doe permits.

[RagingBullPa]

my area predominately area3d has vast areas that hunters who hunt the games lands have never seen or know about and where do the deer move too , most of the average joe hunter will sit on his heinie for hours upon end maybe 50 yards away from the gamelands access roads and these arethe whiners "baww there ain't no deer, hey jethro you gotta" hunt" for them try still hunting but buy yourself a gps or a compass please learn how to use it read i know this is hardand get yourself a map of the area, pre hike the area instead of sitting on yur hind end watching the Eagles Botch another game, or suckin down suds at the Local Legion or VFW and Whine about not seeing any deer, trouble with many PA Hunters Your Road warriors , Yes Ican say that i see it every year, also the range finder is not used to see how far away you can still see your darn 40,000dollar watchacallit super 4x4 swamper which the only off roading you do is when you miss the turn into yourdrive way after a session at the pub, try real hunting some time go actually into the woods past the coke cans and candy wrappersand potatochips, you will see deer , that i promise

[Swift]

The PGC put the bus in motion but the PA hunters did the killin.

[Larryjk]

I noticed another thread talked about the possiblilty of there being an increase in the numbers of cougar (mountain lion). Watch for tracks. They do cover a lot of ground and they take a deer about every 5 to 7 days. That is a lot more than your tag allows. If you get many cats in one area, the deer herd will go down.

[PA Hunter]

You are right on Adam, on our cabin outside Wellsboro Tioga County in the 80's there were deer everywhere.

Last two years first two days opening buck I saw 0 deer and about 6 bear total. I did also see two Bob Cats very few deer sign and this is on private prioperty. Also hardly any shooting. When you observe the deer on the trucks I usually see more doe than buck. So therefore how many shots you hear are actually buck or doe?

I just think they should curb the doe slaughter a little, especially in the big wood counties. I would hate to see the deer hunting really turn south like the small game hunting did for my children.

[Adam Helmer]

PA Hunter,

I bought my farm in 1988 and we had deer back then. I attended Alt's dog and pony show in 2002 and he said we "Had to shoot does to get a proper buck-to-doe ratio." I advised him when he ran the PA bear program for PGC we had two years of NO bear season, then a 1 day season and a 2 day season and then back to a 3 day bear season. I asked him why not stop archers from shooting bucks for a year or two to restore the ratio. Alt did not answer me because he had a deer decimation policy in the wings, IMO.

Adam

[PA Hunter]

I agree with you Adam,

I live in 5C and there are deer everywhere and I really dont care about the doe killed here. But there is not much hunting pressure around my house either allot of developments and allot of tree huggers. Now at our cabin in Tioga with a couple hundred acres of private land no deer. Nobody in our camp got a buck in last 5 years of hunting and we usually have 5-7 people hunting the first 3 days of each year.

No one will convince me the population has not suffered greatly there I know first hand from 29 years of hunting it every year.

I like the antler restriction's and I like some doe tags filled but this is insane.