Tightening patterns?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I'm looking for ideas on how to tighten up patterns on a cylinder bored smoothbore....I know the basics of 'less powder, more shot", but I have heard other things, such as wrapping the shot charge in leather, ect.....I'm looking for ideas like those.
I'd like to stay as traditional as possible, please (i.e. no plastic shot cups!;) )
Thanks............

[Larryjk]

You might try plastic shot cups. If there are any that will fit your muzzleloader, they will probably be found at "Ballistic Products".
They have everything you might need for a shotgun.

[skeet]

Hate to rain on your parade but there were not so many things that REALLY worked doing what you wanted. Choke boring was the only real answer. Now as to the use of plastic shotcups.... They will work but you want to use one that you can custom cut the slits with..like some of the steel shot wads. Yes you can use them with lead and slit them only about half way. Try different cuts to see how much you really need. There are also some teflon wraps (house wrap stuff) you can use. I tried paper cups and foil cups and combined them with a little fine cornmeal..helped a bit. Aluminum foil cups w/cornmeal helped more than anything that I tried. Finally quit using that ol smokepole...Just too much trouble. I could get better killing patterns out of a 410...and about the same yardage. Steel shot shotcups worked better than anything....cut a bit more than halfway. Sometimes ya just gotta go in a direction you really didn't intend to. The best way just ain't gonna be traditional:D

[roundball]

Mr. 16 gauge, I’m the same way…I don’t use modern plastic shot cups…if I can’t try to do it like the settlers did then what’s the point I’m trying to accomplish...if I take pride in taking game like squirrels, doves, crows with a Flintlock smoothbore its because I did it like the settlers could have…using techniques that they basically had available to them...to me personally, if I use modern plastic wads to gain an advantage then I’m really not doing it the same way they did.

In pattern testing GM Flint smoothbores in .54/.28ga and .62cal/.20ga…some things I’ve found that improve cylinder bore patterns for me, both in density and distance are:
1) The ratio of more shot than powder like you mentioned…I don’t waste a minute even thinking about comparing modern shotgun gauges and loads to a BP smoothbore Flintlock.
I use big strong thick steel barrels from GM and they are nothing more than that to me…big strong thick steel barrels that I shoot shot out of…if they happen to have a diameter that somebody could say is the same size as a modern .20ga, so be it, but I do not proceed with any thoughts of a modern .20ga in mind…they are two completely different worlds IMO;
2) Minimal amount of wadding over powder to minimize their effects on the shot column at muzzle exit…the larger amount of wadding material that there is, the momentary high pressure muzzle blast at exit can drive them forward into the shot column;
I don’t use any OP cards…just various cushion wad material like prelubed wads from Circle Fly or Oxyoke;
3) A larger size shot than normal…ie: #5s in stead of #6s…if I was going to use #6’s for squirrels, I use #5’s…the larger heavier pellets bore straight ahead a little further before beginning to veer off from deformation or wind;
4) At a minimum, I use the hardest magnum shot available, deforms less than chilled shot;
And even better is Nickel plated shot for long range small targets like a turkey head…costs a few bucks more but for the type hunting I use it for, I don’t take all that many shots.
The old Winchester ‘Lubaloy’ copper plated shot is also outstanding but they stopped making it long ago and very hard to find any old bags still around…the modern made copper plated shot by Lawrence is absolute junk…doesn’t even do as well as magnum lead shot so don’t waste your money. The Winchester ‘Lubaloy’ was actual copper plating over hard lead…the Lawrence brand is just a copper wash over cheap soft lead.
5) Skeet targets are only 21 yards…both chilled and magnum #9’s in a cylinder bore are fine for that.
6) For long range patterns on small targets like a turkey head, I had a barrel Jug Choked ‘Full’ which was available back in the day, and it is definitely the way to go if you want a long range turkey barrel.

Squirrel photo = a couple squirrels, each out of the same tree at 30 yards
GM 15/16” x 33” .54cal/.28ga cylinder smoothbore
70grns Goex 3F
Two 1/8” Oxyoke prelubed wool wads
1+1/4oz #5 chilled lead
Circle Fly OS card

Turkey photos = both dropped stone dead…Jake @ 40yds, Tom @ 30yds
.62cal/.20ga 1” x 33” Jug Choked ‘Full’
(using Bob Aspens turkey load at his website)
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html
80grns Goex 3F
Circle Fly cushion wad
1+5/8oz #6 magnum shot (or Nickel plated)
Circle Fly OS card

Squirrels @ 30yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/roundball/Hunting/Crows%20-%20Doves%20-%20Squirrels/IMG_0272Cropped.jpg

JAKE @ 40yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/roundball/Hunting/Turkey/041407Flintlock1stTurkey-1.jpg

Tom @ 30yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/roundball/Hunting/Turkey/042807FlintlockonTomshowsbeard.jpg

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Thanks roundball, for your insight. However, I'm a bit confused after reading point #2. You say:

2) Minimal amount of wadding over powder to minimize their effects on the shot column at muzzle exit…the larger amount of wadding material that there is, the momentary high pressure muzzle blast at exit can drive them forward into the shot column; I don’t use any OP cards…just various cushion wad material like prelubed wads from Circle Fly or Oxyoke;

Are you saying that you don't use any cardboard wads over the powder? If so, do you have a problem with the lube from the felt wads soaking into the powder over time? Does thickness of the OP wad make a difference (thinner wad cause less problems than a thicker one).
Thanks in advance.............

[roundball]

The lube used on the prelubed wads I buy are meant for use with blackpowder...by design the lube has no effect on BP...and they feel virtually dry to the touch.

I do not put any OP card over the powder...I just seat the Oxyoke or Circle Fly prelubed wad...pour in the shot...and seat an OS card...the 25th load will go down as easy as the first load did.

Less physical size & weight is better when it comes to wads over powder...however, too thin and without adequate lube you'd be faced with having to wipe the bore after every shot or at least often...can't afford the time to do that shooting trap or skeet targets or during fast action shooting for doves or crows...you need to be able to reload easily and quickly without wiping which usualy means a lubed wad over the powder.

Everything in smoothbore load development is a tradeoff...a balance of components that you test and settle on that meet your needs for what you're shooting at that point in time...a turkey load is different than a skeet load is different than a crow load, etc.

At least that's my .02 cents on the matter...