Cast bullets and the .35 Remington?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Hey all;
I have a Marlin 336 with the microgroove rifling. Bought it a few years back (used gun), as my granddad had one and I bought it for sentimental reasons (his deer rifle was the first centerfire rifle I ever shot).
I've been thinking about loading cast bullets for this gun; I already load cast bullets for my Winchester M94 in .30/30. While checking my Lyman cast manual, it only list loads using pistol powders such as SR4756, green dot, ect. The reason is to limit velocity because of inaccuracy with the microgroove rifling.
I'm thinking about loading the RBCS 200 grain FP with gas check in this caliber.....my question is(are): has anyone loaded cast bullets for the .35 Remington? If so, what loads/velocities have you found to be most accurate? Also, will using a gas check bullet negate the negative effects of the microgroove rifling, accuracy wise? I would like to be able to load with rifle powder to a velocity of around 1900 fps (jacketed bullet velocities) if possible. I currently shoot IMR3031 with cast bullets in my .30/30.
Thanks in advance.............

[jmarriott]

I hate to post a link to another forum but there is a guy who's handle is 35remington on Marlin owners who seems to have mastered almost all the 35 rem load and loves the gas checked lead loads.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,37647.0.html

I think the Microgroove barrels get a bad rap from the CASS shooters but in reality they do a very good job just like the ballard rifling. I shoot rem core loks in both 150 and 180 grain in my 35 rem marlin and it loves them so well i won't be going to cast bullets any time soon.

I was really suprised at the little 150 core loks in the 336 rc. I had them for a contender pistol barrel and they shot into 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards in the marlin. I have been using them on groundhogs and they really mess up a hog at 100. They do shoot much higher than the 180's in my gun about 4 inches at 100.

[Rocky Raab]

No problem. Posting that kind of link - in response to a direct question - is perfectly acceptable. If you hadn't, I would have.

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

I do not buy the "Micro-groove Rifling" myth and cast bullets. I load cast bullets for my 444S Marlin and have great results. I load cast bullets in my .30/30 Winchester using 3031.

I checked the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and while they list rifle powders for the .30/30, they do not for the .35 Remington. I use Unique for the Lyman 358429 (170 SWC) bullet for a 10-inch Contender. Hope this helps.

Adam

[skeet]

I tried cast bullets in my 35 Rem..a 141 pump... and couldn't get them to shoot well. They also leaded the bore when I used rifle powder. Been a long time and I don't remember the powder off hand..have to go back in my records. I do use unique in my 14 in Contender bbl with heavier cast180 gr and even a 200 gr bullet. I've even loaded 158 gr bullets but if I'm gonna do that I'll use my 357 Mag or 357 Max bbl. To be really honest I like the 357 Max better than the 35 Rem anyway. Much easier to load for....and accurate.

[PJgunner]

I tried cast bullets in my 35 Rem..a 141 pump... and couldn't get them to shoot well. They also leaded the bore when I used rifle powder. Been a long time and I don't remember the powder off hand..have to go back in my records. I do use unique in my 14 in Contender bbl with heavier cast180 gr and even a 200 gr bullet. I've even loaded 158 gr bullets but if I'm gonna do that I'll use my 357 Mag or 357 Max bbl. To be really honest I like the 357 Max better than the 35 Rem anyway. Much easier to load for....and accurate.


I wonder? What were your bullets sized to and what was your alloy. I would have thought that a bullet sized to at least .359" or posibbly .360" and at least as hard as plain wheel weight metal would have worked nicely in your rifle up to and including full power loads.
Paul B.

[skeet]

I shot the bullets as cast & lubed. They measured on average .3595 The bore measured on average .3582. They were cast from Wheel weights and were pretty hard. The same bullets shoot pretty good in my 357 Max with no leading that I can see. For some reason I am missing the type of powder used in the rifle but think it was 3031 but I may be wrong. In the Max I have loaded 4227(IMR) and it works pretty well. Have some other loads and they are very good performers. I shot some 158 gr hard cast bullets in my Contender 35 Rem with Unique..they shoot good too. A LOT more fun than factory 35 rem loads. I happen to have 9 boxes of 200 gr factory loads and a couple boxes of older 180 gr Corelokts. The 180's are ok in the Contender as the recoil is definitely easier to take. Accurate too. I have another Remington(7600?) pump in 35 Rem and it shoots the 158's really well. NO recoil.:p

[Catfish]

If your going to but they try the Lead Head bullets. I have pushed them to around 2,600 fps. with out any leading, and they were very accurate. The gun was not a Marlin, but like the others I don`t think that would matter much.

[PJgunner]

Those .3595" bullets should have shot fairly decently, at least I think they should have at that size. For rifles, I like a bullet that has a bore riding nose if possible, and then if the action permits it, I seat the bullet to slightly engage the rifling. FWIW, I don't think you can do that with the RCBS bullet as it does not have a bore riding nose. Whether you can seat it out far enough for the full diameter leading edge can contact the throat or not is another question.
One bullet that might work is Lyman's #358430, a 200 gr. plain based round nose. The nose is bluff enough that it shouldn't be a problem in a lever action's magazine.
I currrently do not have any cast up so I can't send you a few to try. I might have a few of the RCBS 200 gr. bullets left, but I'd have to look. I've shot a few from a .358 in. but so far, the gun isn't taking to them. No leading but no accuracy, at least not yet. :(
One thing is for sure, it's getting too darn hot to cast bullets out in my shed. That's usually a winter time project and I've neglected my dutied in casting this past winter. My bad.
Paul B.
Paul B.

[Rapier]

I shoot cast in micro grooved rifled guns and the inaccurate myth is just bunk, period. The only two Marlin guns I own are the 94C in 357 mag and the 444 in its namesake. I do shoot 357s in several guns including a couple of Martini Cadets and a Merrill or XL, a Mauser, an 1885 High Wall and a couple of Contenders. All in cast bullets. Revolvers are left out as we are into rifles and cast.

The very best cast bullet in 357-358 is the 200 gr RCBS, the close second is the 180 gr RCBS. If you want a rifle to shoot you must get a good bullet to bore fit and unlike Paul, I always size my bullets to bore size or no more than .0005 over. Just my preference.

I shoot cast in the 357 Harrett which is pretty close to the 35 Remington, but my action is stronger, a Contender, so the loads I use are very hot for a 35 Rem Marlin. No neeed to even start there. Do you have an older Lyman book, like the #43, I believe that is the #. The last book that had the accuracy loads and cast bullets in it? You should be able to duplicate any cast load for the 35 Rem in the Lyman book.

What I suggest to you is that 10 gr of Unique will shoot in your Marlin with the 180 or 200 and you can play with the load to tweek it. Also H-4227 shoots with most cast bullets in the 35's case capacity. 4227 is a funny powder in that it works at a wide range of charges and a wide range of bullet weights within the same case.

You mentioned a 30-30, I also shoot several guns in 30-30, all cast and shoot three bullets, the 150gr, 165 gr and 180gr RCBS and all with Unique at 10 grains or 4227. The 150 is suited to the tube mag as it is a big flat point. The 165 has a small flat point and the 180 is a spirepoint.

Paul, That 358 might have the wrong twist if you can not get it to shoot. I like the old Python twist of 1-14 myself for 357 cast, but I bet your 358 Win is different. If the 358 Win will not shoot with the 200 RCBS and 10 gr of Unique, it will not shoot at all. Then it gets dow to you ar the gun and you have been in the game to long, so I go with the gun being set up wrong.
Best,
Ed

PS The first thing to do before you shoot cast is to slug the bore. You know about Assume don't you? Never assume anything about a bore diameter. Also, shooting "as cast" does not allow you to shoot a concentric bullet. I gurantee you that your "as cast" are not round. Get a larger mould and a larger sizer.

[Gil Martin]

The older Lyman reloading manual does list rifle powders for cast bullets in the .35 Remington. They have loads using IMR4198, IMR4895 and IMR3031 with 158 and 200 grain cast bullets. All the best...
Gil

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Just an update: I found some 200 grain cast bullets from a company in Montana and load up some test loads. Found a load that shot 1" groups at 50 yards with open sights...powder was Winchester 748 and this was the most accurate load I've found, so far, of either cast or jacketed bullets. The load was even more accurate than the two factory loads I've tried.

So much for the microgroove myth!:p

So far I've tried WW748, IMR3031, H414, IMR4064, and H4895. Found a nice, accurate jacketed bullet load using the H4895 and the Hornady 200 grain RN.

Still have one or two more powders to try, but I think I'll be buying more 748!;)

[powell&hyde]

I own a Marlin 336 "Zane Grey" 30/30 and use both jacketed and hand cast bullets and have not ever had a problem with accuracy.

[skeet]

My 1895 Marlin with microgroove just wouldn't shoot cast lead..sold it and got a Cowboy gun with Ballard rifling and it works just fine with cast. Just acquired another 444 Marlin. Going to try it out with cast bullets see how it is. The first one I had seemed to shoot lead ok..but it has been a while. Going to try some cast in the Savage/ Stevens 340 30-30. See how it does. Only 30-30 lever gun I have is a new 1894 Win Commemorative(Lone Star) with 26 inch 1/2 round 1/2 octagon bbl pistol grip stock..Ugly as sin..Bright brass plated receiver..ugh

[GoodOlBoy]

what I have found with microgroove is that you want to size a little larger on your bullets in MOST barrels. Other than that, there ain't a thing in the world wrong with them, and there is a whole lot right.

GoodOlBoy

[PJgunner]

"Paul, That 358 might have the wrong twist if you can not get it to shoot. I like the old Python twist of 1-14 myself for 357 cast, but I bet your 358 Win is different. If the 358 Win will not shoot with the 200 RCBS and 10 gr of Unique, it will not shoot at all. Then it gets dow to you ar the gun and you have been in the game to long, so I go with the gun being set up wrong.
Best,
Ed"

Ed. The Rugers have a 1 in 16" twist as did the Kodiak Mauser I just sold. My Browning BLR and M99 Savage in .358 have the proper 1 in 12" twist Winchester specified for the cartridge. I haven't tried shooting cast yet in he two lever guns but I can say that there have so far been much more accurate that the bolt action rifles. :eek:
Just have too darn many honey do's in the way right now to do much shooting, loading or casting. :(
Paul B.