Shotgun slugs versus muzzle-loaders

[BriBri]

OK. I know what are the fundamental differences between the two, in terms of how they are made and how they function. However, I am wondering from a hunting perpective (e.g., effective distance, accuracy, kill effectiveness, etc.) which one should I go with. I have a nice 20 guage O/U with which I have shot slugs out to 50 yards at the range with some decent accuracy using only the bead sight. However, I am interested in getting a scope for my shotgun and trying it on deer/bear at close range (i.e. within 50 or 60 yards). I have never shot a muzzleloader, but I know their effectiveness at 50 yards, as one of my hunting buddies took his spring bear with a muzzleloader and it made quite an entrance/exit hole (dropped the bear at the barrel). I would be interested in people's thoughts on this subject.

[fabsroman]

If you are looking at 50 yard shots, I don't think you are going to have much to worry about with either as far as effectiveness and accuracy are concerned, unless your o/u does not have screw in chokes so you can screw in a rifled choke tube.

I have my Benelli SBE set up with a fully rifled slug barrel with a 3-9x scope on it, and I'll choose it over my muzzleloader any day for deer hunting. The main reason being the ability to fire 5 rounds with it and the fact that I use two recoil reducers on it when deer hunting. I'm a small guy and don't do well with recoil.

The muzzleloader is just as accurate as my slug gun, but it is a PITA to load and the recoil is insane. I've been thinking about getting a T/C Encore for a while, but haven't been doing enough deer hunting the past 2 years to justify the purchase.

Now, if you want to shoot out to 150 yards, I would suggest the muzzleloader for you over your o/u, or a new shotgun (e.g., Remington 870) with a fully rifled barrel. I can use both my shotgun and muzzleloader out to 150.

I use the Barnes X bullet in both guns, so the performance on impact is about the same. The Barnes X bullet is loaded into shotgun rounds by Federal and is available in sabots for the muzzleloader from Barnes. There are plenty of good bullets available for the "slug" gun or should we now say "sabot" gun and the muzzleloader, so effectiveness should not be an issue as long as you can get the bullet on target.

[Jack]

The O/U is not considered the best platform to shoot slugs from. Typically the sights aren't very precise, and you may find the O/U shoots one barrel to one point of aim, the other barrel to another.
Now, inside 50 yards, it might not make much difference.
A well set up shotgun, single barrel, with a rifled barrel and good sights, should shoot slugs with sufficient accuracy to be a 100 yard + gun- likely to 150 yards.
A muzzleloader with decent sights should also be effective to 150 yards.
Personally, I would prefer either a muzzleloader or a pump or auto shotgun set up for slugs, to an O/U shotgun for game hunting. I love O/U's, but, IMO, they are bird guns, not deer guns.

[wrenchman]

I would have agree with both fabs and jack if what you have is what you have like most of us and dont have the money or want to get anther gun i would go with the 50 you could get better range.
I would look at a yoused 870 or a mossburg slug gun you cant go wrong with ether.

[BriBri]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Jack's comments make perfect sense. I have been used to only shooting slugs the lower (under) barrel from my gun, and it took me a while to get it sighted in good (using only the bead sight). I guess I will put some money aside to get a single-barrel gun (perhaps an auto-loader) to use with slugs. Or, maybe I'll look into getting a muzzleloader. Decisions, decisions.

[buckhunter]

Bri
What's wrong with getting both?

[BriBri]

Buckhunter....I gotta convince the wife to let me use some of my daughter's college funds (hehe). Actually, I have spending quite a bit of money recently on hunting-related items (camo, treestand, taxidermy, guided hunting trip, etc.), and I need to take a breather for a while. I will have a few things on my Christmas list though.

[buckhunter]

I hear your pain. I'm old enough that I really don't need anything anymore(didn't say want) plus I'll be retiring for real in a couple of years. I remembe the days when kids and mortages where a priority.

[BriBri]

Good thing is....my daughter will be getting her first bow this Christmas (she is 5 years old). While it may be just a toy to her, I hope she will like it enough to really want to pursue archery as she grows older. She sees me shooting my bow and thinks it's really neat.

[gd357]

BriBri,

If you'e looking to decide between a shotgun and a muzzleloader, it all depends on how far you expect to shoot. My Omega is sighted in at 200 yards, and anything in between will be toast if I hold on the heart. At 400 yards, it still has enough energy to completely flatten a Hornady XTP bullet against a steel gong. Plenty of energy to kill a deer. It's all in how far you are comfortable shooting. But they do have the ability to reach out there a long way. Most shotguns I have experience with lose their ability to group well after about 150 yards. I like my muzzleloader for stand hunting, but I still use the shotgun when participating in deer drives or close cover hunting. JMPE

gd

[Catfish]

Some of the new shotguns with rifled barreld barrels will really reach out there, The thigh is that if you are willing to spend the monet for the latest muzzle loaders they will out shoot the shotguns by a long way. My old .45 flint lock would still shoot with the best of the shotguns, but the new modern powder muzzle loaders will do even better.

[BriBri]

For the shotgun/muzzleloader, I am actually looking to keep my shots within 100 yards. Anything beyond that, I'll use my .270.

On a related note.....I've been practicing with my bow (and some new Beman carbon arrows) to shoot out to 50 or so yards. I'd like to have some options in my arsenal, in case I get bored (like that will ever happen) with always shooting my .270. I am also planning on getting a .375 H&H rifle in preparation for a Newfoundland moose hunt in the fall of 2010 (the .375 might be overkill...but I know someone who reecently shot a New Brunswick moose at 75 yards with his 30-30, and it took three near-perfect shots to bring the beast down. I'd rather drop it where it stands with one shot.) In fact, I'm sure a .50 caliber muzzleloader or shotgun slug, with a well-placed shot, would drop a moose within 100 yards.

Decisions, decisions.....

[buckhunter]

BriBri. We all want new toys so to speak. Most of the locals in Newfy hunt with a 270, 06 or 303. In reality there is no need for a 375 unless you really want one.

If it were me, I would pick up a Rem 870 with a rifled barrel and a $200 ML. That should do well and over the years if you want to upgrade you can.

[BriBri]

I've actually always wanted a .375. I am currently planning an African hunt for the summer of 2011 (or 2012), and .375 is the (recommended) minimum for certain animals I am planning on hunting (e.g., kudu, eland, nyala, zebra, etc.). I'll be bringing my .270, as I know that would do well on things like impala, gemsbok, warthog, and even wildebeest. While I am sure that I could take a kudu or zebra with a .270 with a well-placed shot (I like to think I am a good shot...although I do not want to boast) I'd rather have a .375 to ensure a drop-'em-where-they-stand shot.

[VaRedneck]

Y'all got a heck of a lot more expertiese than I do but here's my experience anyway.

I've used an 870 express magnum with vented rib smoothbore bead sight, shooting 1oz rifled slugs...I've never seen a deer when carrying it into the woods....milk jugs full of water at 85yds. No problem.

I never understood how a rifled choke could get enough twist on a slug compared to a rifled slug.

I coulda put the rifled barrel on.....spent the money elsewhere.

[Swift]

I only hunt with a flinter, PRBs and keep my shots to under 100yds.

A rifled slugger and an inline are another breed.

[skeet]

A rifled choke in a smoothbore bbl will usually give a bit more accuracy with a"rifled" slug. The rifled slug usuallu loses most of the rifling going through the choke area of most shotguns.. A rifled slug actually travels mostly the way it does because of the weight forward hollow base construction. Some guns shoot great with "rifled slugs"...some don't. Rifled bores and chokes work much better with the more expensive and more aerodynamic sabot slugs They are usually much more accurate than the "rifled" slug. To be honest most of the hunters in the areas that most people hunt for whitetails would be just as well off with the rifled slug. Most deer are probably killed at ranges under 50 yds. I killed a few deer with sabot slugs out to 200 yds and a bit more in a couple of cases..but I knew the gun/load accuracy. I once shot a deer with a sabot slug that was so close the sabot and all went clear through...but it DID do the job. I have also used my muzzleloaders to take deer at up to approx 200 yds but the average was again much much less. Usually 30-40 yds. I even shot a fox at a lasered 227 yds with my Savage smokeless powder muzzleloader. If I were going to hunt eastern deer again..I would still choose a pump(870) or semi-auto(11-87) with a rifled bore and sabot slugs..just for the ocassional long shot..but would not feel undergunned with a purely everyday skeet gun with regular slugs..Muzzleloaders have their own season..but if ya want to use one that is your choice. They will do the job too. Let's not make this deer hunting with a shotgun into the same thing as the magnum rifle debate..Heck..nothing kills a deer like a 300 Super dooper ultra super short action magnum rifle. Heck the 30-06 is outclassed by the darn deer we been hunting.. Super dooper deer are impervious to anything less than a 300 mag of some sort Heck it's so bad I'm almost ashamed I shot any deer with a 270 or a 12 ga rifled slug...

[dovehunter]

I don't recall having seen anyone mention it but your state's (and/or locality's) game laws have to factor into the decision. Here in Virginia we have counties where you can legaly use a ML but not shotgun slugs. Conversely we also have counties in which you can use shotgun slugs but not MLs. With the relatively thick wooded areas that are most prevalent where I hunt, either ML or slug will do fine for up to 100 yds. If you're using a repeating shotgun you always have the advantage of a follow-up shot. Personally, considering the ranges and/or circumstances under which I usually hunt, I prefer buckshot to both.

[fabsroman]

Okay, I read through all the replies and your additional posts Bri Bri, and I will start with this suggestion. Save for your daughter's college first and foremost. If you think it is cool to see her hoisting a bow now, wait until you get to see her hoisting a diploma. Both my dad and I almost broke down crying when I got mine.

Next, since it doesn't seem as though you NEED a slug gun or a muzzleloader right now, I say wait until you have the funds to buy something nice, and then buy something nice. I have an AR-10 and AR-15 lower sitting here waiting to be built because I am still working on finishing a bike that will take another couple grand to finish. Sure, I could finish building both AR's, but that would put college funding in doubt this year. Once I have both 529 plans funded for 2009, I'll start finishing the AR's.

Responsibility first, toys second. If this economy teaches us anything, it has to be that.

Throughout law school I refrained from buying a new gun, while a law school friend of mine was taking out loans to buy an SBE and new clay guns. Those loans had to be paid when he graduated. Me, I bought my SBE when I graduated and I still use it to this day, 11 years later. I could stand to upgrade my bow and muzzleloader, but I don't use them enough to justify it.

If your daughter doesn't go to college, then you will have plenty of money to play with in 13 years.

[muskrat30]

A little old but a question many ponder. I strongly favor a quality in-line over a slug barreled shotgun. If I was in the rain or extreme weather I MAY take the shotgun. I tested both extensively last Fall before an IL deer hunt. They were a 12ga Browning Gold & a Knight Disc. The Knight shot much better(Blackhorn 209, 250 SST) than the shotgun. I took both on my hunt but never uncased the shotgun. I took 5 deer with 5 shots on 2 different hunt periods, 1 buck & 4 QDM anterless. One usually has to fiddle more with the M-L to get it ready & do the cleanup, but once on the stand it's worth it. YMMV

[fabsroman]

A little old but a question many ponder. I strongly favor a quality in-line over a slug barreled shotgun. If I was in the rain or extreme weather I MAY take the shotgun. I tested both extensively last Fall before an IL deer hunt. They were a 12ga Browning Gold & a Knight Disc. The Knight shot much better(Blackhorn 209, 250 SST) than the shotgun. I took both on my hunt but never uncased the shotgun. I took 5 deer with 5 shots on 2 different hunt periods, 1 buck & 4 QDM anterless. One usually has to fiddle more with the M-L to get it ready & do the cleanup, but once on the stand it's worth it. YMMV

You also understand that not all shotguns are the same. So, comparing a single shotgun to a single muzzeloader is sort of a poor comparison. Same goes for my comparison. I've only ever shot 2 slug guns and a single muzzleloader. 1 slug gun is well above my muzzleloader in preference, and the muzzleloader is well above the other slug gun in preference.

For a comparison to be valid, we would need to take 5 of the top of the line slug guns and compare them to 5 of the top of the line muzzleloaders, or do a comparison of the slug guns and muzzleloaders amongst themselves and then take the winner of each category and compare them against each other.

[popplecop]

One of the most reasonable rifled shotguns is a singleshot made by H&R (New England Firearms). People that have them say that they are very accurate, the one I shot a 20 would kill deer at 150 yds with a good scope.

[.50 cal]

The answer to the question is more about preference and the distance you are shooting.I have a few muzzle loaders and a few slug guns.If you get a shotgun my suggestion would be a rifled barrel if you will be able to afford the sabots to practice with it.I shoot shotgun during shotgun season and muzzle loader during muzzle season.But my go to gun is my muzzle loader because it was only 50 bucks ammo is cheap and it is more accurate than any of my slug guns at 100 yards. And the recoil is not as bad as 3in sabots.I have never shot over 100 yards at a animal with it but it took down a 3in in dia tree at 200 yards with 80 grains of powder and a hand cast 250 grain bullet.I use the shotgun during season because if i can get 2 rounds into the deer and I don't have to look for it,then I will.