Need advice on 7mm-.08

[YukonGirl]

So I'm gearing up for a few moose/caribou hunts coming up soon. After borrowing some friends' rifles, I'm thinking the best one for me that'll have minimum recoil but a good, flat trajectory, is a 7mm-.08. (I need something that can handle a moose as well as a bear and not put my five foot nothing frame on my backside after I pull the trigger.)

But what I don't know is which 7mm-.08. Prices seem to run all over the place and I'm not convinced the most expensive is the best. Or maybe I'm just cheap.

Any suggestions from anyone out there? Remington, Browning, somebody nobody's ever heard of? Which seems the most accurate at a reasonable price?

If it helps, I'll be hand loading my own shells so I don't expect to have to rely on factory loads.

[skeet]

I know I'm an alarmist...but I know a little of the grizz and the 7-08 is ok but You can probably handle the original 08...the 308...much better for moosies too. I hunt the elkies in grizz country and am going to carry a 300 H&H this year. Somebody actually gave me one!!:D As far as prices...just buy something that is quality.. Savage 110 or one of it's derivatives will work

[buckhunter]

The Savage 110 is a pretty decent, low cost option. They can be had as a package deal with Rifle, Scope and Sling however I do not know the quality of the scope so beware. Honestly there is very little recoil between the the 7-08 and the 308. Bullet selection is better in a 308 plus the ammo availibity should be better. Just a thought.

[Catfish]

A big slow bullet is a better stopper than a small fast one, so if there will be grizz in the area I would recomand the largest cal. you can handle, unless you`ll have a reliable back up at all times. I argee with the others, .308 absloute min., and Savage are excellant for the bucks spent.

[PJgunner]

There was a woman who lived in the Canadian wilderness who's husband was hardly ever around. She had to fend for herself and her kids as best she could. Her first name was Olive as I recall, but I'm not positive on her last namr. For some reason I'm thinking Frederickson but I could be wrong. She wrote up her adventuers in Outdoor Life many years ago and they made a movie about her called I believe Silence of the North. Now what all this roundabout gab is all about is her moose gun was a Winchester m94 in (GASP!) 25-35. She was definitely in big bear country and IIRC, did have a run in with Grizzly Bear. I don't remember if she shot it or not.
Gun writer John Barsness wrote an article not too long ago about his shooting a moose with a 7x57 Mauser using IIRC, a 160 gr. Barnes TSX. The moose dropped at the shot as I recall.
A max load of H-414 for the 160 gr. Barnes MRX-BT is 2601 FPS using 44.0 gr. of powder. Naturally Barnes cheats a bit and uses a 24" barrel. That's the fastest load for that bullet for a 7-08 in that book. That should be good for a moose to at least 200 yards. I think that's the heaviest bullet by Barnes that would be suitable in the 7-08. The 175 gr. bullet would be way too long and take up too much powder space.
FWIW, the worlds record Grizzly Bear was tied by a Canadian who had to shoot it with a 30-30. He punched one right though the skull. B&C refused to recognize it because of the bullet hole in the skull.
Paul B.

[YukonGirl]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I guess I'll have to reconsider my options.

I was telling a friend the other day, if I ever get rich and I'm looking for businesses to invest in, I’m going to buy several gun stores and places that sell chainsaws. And then I’m going to let people try them out to make sure they like them before they buy. I mean, it’s only reasonable. You can’t know if the thing will work for you until after you pull the trigger/start rope and then aim it and cut/shoot stuff up. Hasn’t anybody ever thought of this before?

My motto will be, “We put the Customer back into Customer Service.”

[PJgunner]

Yukon Girl. I neglected to mention that the 7x57 Mauser that John Barsness used is in the same class as the 7-08. My bad. :o A guy named Bell used to do elephants the dirty deed with a .275 Rigby which was nothing more than the 7x57 under another name. IIRC, he did something like 800 elephants out of hit toal of 1,100 with that .275 Rigby. Seems like the British didn't like using the German metric designation so changed the name. Of course, shot placement was extremely critical.
Paul B.

[skeet]

Don't take this wrong but you really do need a bit larger caliber. If you can handle the 7-08 you can handle the 308. And there are lots of loads for the 308. Ol WDM Bell might have shot a lot of elephants with a 7mm..but he had the luxury of being able to set up all his shots for the most part..not many were comin after him. And ol Olive Fredrickson used the 25-35 for one simple reason..it was what she had. It wasn't the best for the job.. Get the best for the average use that you have. The 308 should fit the bill. I hunt around the nasty ol grizz and I now carry 'nuff gun myself..

BTW we had another kid attacked by a grizzly the other day..out in a sage brush flat where no self respecting grizzly would be. The boys were shooting jackrabbits with handguns when she knocked the one boy down and started in to chewing on him. He actually killed her with a 357 handgun from what I heard.. She did of course have some young'uns nearby. Last I heard he was in ICU in Billings. Not a good thing for certain.

[MtnMike2]

YG,
I know this is stretching it a bit from what you're saying, but if there's any way you could handle a 30-06 I would recommend it for your part of the world. Great all-around caliber. If not, the .308 already suggested would work. Just my 2 cents....

Mike

[gd357]

Not to throw a wrench in the works, but why not a .338 Federal? Low recoil for the caliber, and better bullet selection for moose or bear should you run afoul of one. JMHO

gd

[YukonGirl]

gd,

I'm going to ask around and see if any of my friends own a .338 Federal that I can try out.

Here's what Wikipedia says about it, which I find very interesting: "Federal claims that the cartridge provides energy equal to a 7mm Rem Mag with less recoil, and greater energy than the .30-06 Springfield in bullets of the same weight, making it even faster than the .308."

Thanks for the suggestion.

[gd357]

YukonGirl,

Very basically, it's a .308 casing necked up to .338. Short-action casing (more efficient, less recoil). Nice round, but a fairly recent development. You may have a bit of difficulty finding one to try out, but if you do it should be worth the effort. And should be just about ideal for what you're wanting to do. Good luck, and if you find one to try out, let me know what you think.

gd

[Pre-64]

Good call GD357. I was thinking the same thing, .338 Federal!

[skeet]

Guys this gal is in the Yukon..probably find 338 Federal ammo there sometime in the next few years.. And ammo availability ain't getting all that much better. It's a nice caliber and all but..the general store down the road just ain't gonna have this kinda stuff...and probably ..neither will the Bay Stores..they still are open up there aren't they YG??

Not trying to bust any bubbles guys but the reality of the north country is a little different than you may be used to. Or it sure was a lot different. No Mickey D's down at the next corner ya know? Heck I haven't even seen it for sale here yet...and this is Elk country.

[jplonghunter]

Yukon Girl

Felt recoil has alot to do with how the rifle fits the individual IMHO. Whatever you decide on be sure LOP is correct for your stature.

jplonghunter

[GoodOlBoy]

45-70. . . . .

had to be different, and the kick (particularly with BP rounds) is VERY manageable.

GoodOlBoy

[YukonGirl]

Unfortunately, nobody around here seems to have a Federal 338 I can try out, but today I'll be trying out another friend's .308 which happens to have a shorter stock which could be perfect for me.

I asked one of my favorite gun nutz friends to let me try out his .300 yesterday at the gravel pit. (That's where we go shooting around here when we don't feel like hoofing it into the bush.) I'd shot it before but didn't like the recoil.

As for the .300, I managed the kick just fine this time around and didn't flinch a bit, but I still missed the bull's eye at 200 yards, though just barely. After about three rounds, I suggested another woman who was with us give it a try. She's a bit taller than me (not hard to do) and did okay with the .30-.30 so I figured she might even hit the target dead on with the .300. Unfortunately, she only got one try because the recoil brought the scope up and gashed her forehead. I had to rush her to the next town where the part-time clinic had to open up especially for her so they could put four stitches in her forehead. It was a bit of a reality check for me. I think I could manage the .300 okay and even start hitting the target with more practice, but what I don't want is to have the wrong gun in the wrong place-- especially while out in the bush. And let's face it, when you finally get to take your shot at that moose or caribou or whatever you're aiming for, you want the tool that's best for you.

I guess my point is that it can be a frustrating process to figure out what gun works best for you, especially when you want to run out and buy that new toy, but it's worth the effort to take it slow. And thanks to you guys on this forum, I've gotten some great suggestions on what to try out. I'm off to try out that .308 now-- I'll let you know how it went.

[YukonGirl]

Skeet, somehow I missed your post about the boys being attached by the grizzly. I hope the kid recovers okay and has a story to tell his grand kids.

I've gotten so even if I'm out plinking with my .22 I have the 12-gauge within easy reach just because I'm so paranoid about that sort of thing happening to me too. But those are in areas you expect to see a bear.

Here's the good news-- I spent the morning trying out a .30-06 Springfield-- it was fun to shoot. But I really liked the Winchester 88 .308-- the recoil was quite manageable-- just as you guys said it would be, plus it's a beautiful gun. I liked it so much I bought it off my friend-- he sold it along with the Bushnell Scopechief 6 mounted on it for about $370 US. You should see the grin on my face!

My other gun nut friend is going to size it down so it fits me perfectly. It's about 1.5" too long right now. (He's going to shorten my Mossy 500 for me too-- it'll be like Christmas morning around here!) Now all I need is a bipod and I'm ready for the season.

I had my friend videotape me shooting the .308 and the .30-06 and if the footage isn't too embarrassing I'll upload it to my YouTube site. I'm really looking forward to getting lots of practice with the .308. And then I'm hoping for moose and caribou steaks come fall!

So thanks again everybody. As always, you guys were a big help.

[skeet]

You did GOOD. An 88 Winchester for 370 bucks?? I am jealous. It will be a good tool for you. It'll take care of any game you may come up with. Are the (Hudsons)Bay stores still operating up there? 180 gr ammo for moose and 150's for caribou..or if they have 165's available just use them for everything.

As far as the bear attack. The fellow attacked wasn't the kid. He was a retired cop. The kid didn't get it..he walked right past the bear evidently. This is the 2nd bear attack in the last year in this area. The other was written up in the American Hunter Mag this month.. The mountain lion attack was kinda weird. The guy was cutting wood and the cat attacked him. Bit him on the arm and the guy cut it in the shoulder with the chain saw. They hunted it down with a dog the next day. Lion attacked the dog and was killed. They were afraid of rabies etc but none of that showed up in the tests. It only weighed 100 lbs.

[YukonGirl]

Skeet, you sound very knowledgeable about all kinds of Far North stuff. Have you spent some time up here?

Unfortunately, the Hudson's Bay store chain has gone, well, the way of chain stores. Remember when Banana Republic was a really cool store with all kinds of safari clothing and outdoor gear? Now it's unrecognizable. Same thing with Hudson's Bay Company. In fact, now they just call it "The Bay" to make it sound trendy. They don't even have a Bay store up here, which is just fine for me since it's not what it used to be.

Am glad to get some confirmation that I got a great deal on the .308. And it's in excellent condition, too. A few of my friends are going to set me up for hand loading and said I should experiment with different loads to see what I'm most comfortable with. After sizing the .308 down to fit me and putting a good recoil pad on it, I'm thinking I'll be able to shoot in my sleep without even waking up.

Weird that the mountain lion attacked him *while* he was using his chainsaw. I know they're aggressive, but that's incredible-- and super scary. I've been out felling trees in winter and could hear wolves in the near distance, but I've always figured nothing would come close with my chainsaw running. We're starting to get mountain lions up here now too-- they're following the deer. I think I had one walking around my cabin a few winters ago but not sure. I hope they don't become a problem.

[wrenchman]

I have a 88 checkard stock it was on it when i bought the gun it was cut down.
Here what you have would be worth around 500 to 600 and if it has the checkard stock it would be a little more you did good.

[wrenchman]

It is to bad i cant send my stock to you could see if it would fit and you wouldnt need to cut it down.

[skeet]

Spent a bit of time up there. Mountain lions are usually pretty secretive. We have one that lives around here somewhere. Up one of the canyons in the rock wall we have here. Wolf up there too. Gummit trapper told me not to shoot it:rolleyes: while he was up here asking about shooting the coyotes on the ranch.. He also knew about the lion..I've seen the lions tracks but never the lion..Seen the wolf a time or two though:eek: Actually I am not anti wolf..I am anti people interfering with the local ecology. Didn't need wolves here. They were already here. The ones here now though are surely not afraid of people. They actually come up and hang around while you field dress an animal. Actually try to chase you off so they can eat...The grizz on the other hand have been known to just come in and take it from you. Not a joke. The Yotes are bad enough killing stock(even cows)...but mostly when they are giving birth to calves. The biggest bunch of yotes I have seen at one time was 17 in one pack..but I had a rifle and they were gone out of range before I even got a looksee. Except for 5 all of the yotes I have shot this summer were with either my 45 auto or a Smith M-28 I have with a red dot sight on it. It's good for up to 100 yds..the 45 is ok to about 50 or so..then I am out of my element. The other 5 I shot with rifles..one with 22-250 and the others with the Bushmaster varminter in 223. Very accurate.

YG that 308 will do you good. When you get a set of dies for it..consider buying a set of small base dies for semi autos and pumps so they will always function through the rifle.. In fact before going out with the rifle..make sure the ammo you have loaded will function through the rifle. Just sit on the ol front porch and run 'em through the magazine with the rifle pointed somewhere other than your neighbors house..if they are that close:D I'm still jealous:cool:

[PJgunner]

When you start loading for that .308, I'll pass one a load that should put the quietus to any aggressive bear. it's not a high pressure load, yet can push a 220 gr. bullet to 2310 FPS in my rifle.
Now I'm sure that someone is gonna chime in and say you can't shoot a bullet that heavy in a .308. After all, all the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags say so, and they'd never lie, right?
Also, your rifle has a 1 in 12' twist which is too slow for a bullet that heavy, right?
Well, all I can say is my Winchester M70 in .308 has that same 1 in 12" twist and it will put three 220 gr. Sierra round nose bullets into .375 to .50" all day long at 100 yards ay 2310 FPS at the muzle. That's only 100 FPS from a 22barreled 30-06 using factory advertised velocity. I'd say that wasn't bad company at all. Another rifle with an 18.5" barrel does 2550 FPS with the same load. Now this is with a round nose bullet, not one of the overlong spitzers now available.
Now if I had to face a mean tempered Grizzly on the prod, I certainly would feel a lot better with my .35 Whelen in hand, but if all I had was my M70 .308 with my 220 gr. load, I wouldn't worry overmuch.
Paul B.

[skeet]

Actually PJ..I tried that in my old Winchester 88 yrs ago. Don't remember the particulars exactly but it wasn't that tight in it IIRC..but heck..It's a short range thing anyway. Angle of bear is just fine. I do remember though that old 88 kicked a mite but it had a regular buttplate and was a bit short for me..

Raining here again today. T-boomers. Almost an inch..woo-hoo

[Mike Moss]

Yukon Girl,

My suggestion is that you select a cartridge that has moderate recoil. This is important so that you shoot the rifle well and in fact enjoy shooting and practicing with it.

The 7mm-08 should be good for all your game when used with premium bullets such as the Nosler Partition. Such bullets will penetrate large animals and take them if your aim is good.

You can handload less expensive bullets for practice and smaller game.

Another thing is that I much prefer the new soft recoil pads such as the Decelerator. They make a big difference in felt recoil. Another thing is to use good ear protection.

I prefer rifles with three position safeties such as found on the M70, Ruger 77 and Kimber 84M's.

Such safeties allow the chamber to be unloaded while still on safe yet lock the bolt handle down when all the way back. Most versions of these rifles also have controlled round feeding which adds another level of reliability to the rifles function.

Get the length of pull cut to fit you. This is important. Another thing is to avoid heavy and long rifles. There are smaller versions of each that I mentioned and my favorite is the Kimber 84M.

Good luck and stay with us.

[YukonGirl]

In reading all your posts, I'm reminded again I have so much to learn...

I was watching a YouTube video about the Lee Breech Lock Challenger. It looks pretty slick. What do you guys think about it? It might be a smart way for me to break into hand loading by getting most of what I need in a kit. My friends are very generous about helping me out by loaning me whatever I need but I'd like to invest in my own setup at some point. I just don't know much about it. Okay, I don't know anything about it. :)

I posted the evidence of my trying out the .308 for the first time-- it's here if you want to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQIY4uGc7E. I'm picking up the rifle this weekend and I can hardly wait. I think once it's cut down for me it'll feel like home. I'm looking forward to getting lots of practice with it.

Wrenchman, wish I could take you up on that stock offer, but I can just see Canadian customs having a fit-- they make it almost impossible to get *anything* gun-related across the border. I know a stock shouldn't be a big deal, but I'm pretty sure they'd figure out a way to aggravate us just the same.

Skeet, you too with your offer of selling me the extra clip-- I appreciate it but I'm not sure it would be worth the risk and hassle, even if it's legal to ship just a clip person to person and I'd like to hope it is. I'd love to get one, I think it would be fantastic to have on the hunt so you've got me thinking I need to find one around here.

A friend of mine said there are some practice rounds that are perfect for using at the range-- cheap and decently accurate. Any recommendations from anyone as to manufacturer, etc.? As for hunting, I think I'll have to experiment with different hand loads-- with the help of my friends of course. No need to blow myself up before hunting season starts. Right?

[wrenchman]

us and canada has some strange rules about shipping across to each side.
Sportsmans guide has some good prices on 308 relodes with speer bullets i have bought them in the past and they are good for hunting.
I dont know if you are limited to canadian buisness or if you can order frome any place of buisness.

[YukonGirl]

Wrenchman, I'll check that out. Thanks.

[Ol` Joe]

I posted the evidence of my trying out the .308 for the first time-- it's here if you want to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQIY4uGc7E. I'm picking up the rifle this weekend and I can hardly wait. I think once it's cut down for me it'll feel like home. I'm looking forward to getting lots of practice with it.

A word of warning. In your video you`re resting the barrel on the front rest pad. This will alter the point of impact and can cause a miss when the pressure is missing such as during a shot at game.
I had a M88 in 308 for a while and kick myself for ever letting it go. You are going to love that rifle for hunting the brush.

[YukonGirl]

Ol' Joe-- good advice. I think the best cure for me is to practice using the rifle standing, sitting, etc. without bean bags and all that. I checked on the .308 today and the mods are coming along nicely. I should have it back by tomorrow sometime. If it weren't so darn hot and dry up here I'd take it out shooting for the day. But it would be just my luck I'd start a forest fire. So I'll have to be patient. I hate that.