A question about a Single Shot

[skeet]

I acquired a neat little action not too long ago. It is a Winchester Low Wall action and stock etc. No BBl of course.. It is a small shank rimfire. I want to bbl it to a centerfire and having a little trouble deciding what to make it. I had the idea of doing a 22 K Hornet or a 218 Bee or improved Bee. Maybe a 17 mach IV?? But I have had some people tell me to make it up in 32-20(traditional caliber??) or others. Even thought about 327 Federal..Could shoot any 32 ammo:D So I have come here to get some ideas from my friends on Hunt Chat.

How bout some ideas on calibers. While yer at it...give me a reason for your choices.:p:confused: Oh BTW I just thought to use it on yotes PDs and what not..Nothing set in stone. I really got this thing cheap at 25 bucks delivered..So I know it is gonna cost me a lot more to make a shooter out of it.

[skeet]

Talk about the single shot. I also acquired a 94 Winchester barreled action in 30-30..Bore is UGLY. Who could I send it to to be bored to 32-40 and re-rifled? Or what other caliber would work??

[GoodOlBoy]

I would love to get ahold of a 357 mag or 32-20 lever or single shot myself. I am not sure who you could get to rebarrel the 94 but check around with some of the cowboy action gunsmiths I would bet that one of them could and would do it

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

I would prefer to bore and re-rifle the 94 as it is pretty early serial and is octagon ...soooo. it would be neat to have it pretty much original.. I guess. Still has the original sights too. I also have a really nice period tang sight for it.

[GoodOlBoy]

What about reboreing for 35 rem? You could probably find a few gunsmiths around who can do that as well.

GoodOlBoy

[bulletpusher]

Skeet,

You might try Doug Turnbull Restorations. I know they handle alot of lever action restorations and other older firearms. The link listed below should get to them.

http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/

I don't know what they can do to help you but they have a heck of reputation
for fine quality work.

Keep us posted
Bulletpusher

[skeet]

I don't need it restored though..I can do most of the work puttin it all together again and makin it look good. But I don't want to remove the original bbl and am just looking for a smith who does boring and rifleing.. I also don't think I can rechamber to 35 Rem..it is rimless and I think it would be too hard to change the action to 35 Rem.Specially the bolt face etc..I'd have to look at rim sizes for that matter. That is why I was lookin at 32-40..or maybe 38-55

[Ridge Runner]

you could have the barrel bored and chambered for a 32 win. special, same case just bigger bullet.
RR

[skeet]

I had thought of the 32 Special..but for some reason I would prefer something different. I also thought of relining the bore to 30-30..if that can be done. Do anybody know if that is possible??

[GoodOlBoy]

I know there used to be some folks that would do it, they would overbore it out then put a new bore sleeve in it. Dunno if they still do or not.

GoodOlBoy

[Jack]

22 rimfires are often relined, but, they work at quite a bit lower pressure than a 30-30, etc. Personally, I would be very wary of a relined centerfire.
Reboring is more practical, IMO- in a case where you want to keep the original barrel. I suspect rebarreling with a new barrel wouldn't cost any more than reboring the original barrel.
On an early 94, I think either 32-40 or 38-55 might be good choices. If the original 30-30 bore is really badly pitted, you might not get all the pits out reboring to a 32 (either 32-40 or 32 Special). In that case, 38-55 is the obvious choice.
One other little detail: going from a shouldered 30-30 case to a straight wall 32-40 or 38-55 case, you may have to change the cartridge guides for smooth feeding. Simple to do (they're held in by screws), but easy to overlook.
As to the Low Wall, I'd choose 22 Hornet or 218 Bee- both seem to be a fitting choice of caliber for an action of that era, and both would have application for coyotes and PD's. But, that's just a personal preference thing.

[PJgunner]

It always gets my goat when someone says I want to do such and such and it gets out of hand. :rolleyes: I think the K Hornet would be interesting to play with and the smaller cartridge head would produce less thrust on the breech block. I do consider the straight Hornet a fine round to play with but not all that good on tough critters like the wiley coyote much past maybe 50 yards and preferably less. The Bee would be nice, but like the Hornet, ammo is a bit on the pricey side. Dunno much about the Bee as I never had one but I do know that Hornet brass can be a bit on the fragile side due to it's size.
If the gun was originally a rimfire, you'll have to drill out the breech block and whatever else that entails to convert to centerfire. Projects like that get expensive. Just ask me how I know. :o Sometimes they don't work out like you thought they might. Again, just ask me how I know. :o:( But the ones that do work out exactly as planned, oh the joy! :D:cool:
Paul B.

[skeet]

As far as the low wall. I think I am going to go with either the K Hornet or the 218 Bee. My preference is to the Bee. I happen to have quite a few cases for both calibers. Well the regular Hornet anyway and the Bee. I'd have to fireform the K hornets. I am tending towards the Bee but only if it can handle the pressures. I have a former employee of the Ballard Rifle Company in Cody to do the real work.. Will contact him and see what he thinks about the Bee. He is somewhat of a purist in wanting an original caliber. I want something to shoot.

As far as the 94 I was concerned about the pits not coming out in a 32 cal so have pretty much decided on 38-55. In fact at a yard sale today(another story for another thread) I acquired some 38-55 brass..More than 150 New factory brass. So I guess that will be decided. Now as to the bore..Jack..do you know anyone that will bore and re-rifle?? This stuff is kinda fun...and expensive I think....Oh what the heck..I know it will be. I'd like to have a bit of a hand in doing both. I do know I am going to re-blue both guns.. Rust blues like I used to do for money. Lot of work...but surely worth it. May post some pics of the process when I get to workin on 'em

[Jack]

Skeet, no, sorry, I don't know of anyone to recommend for reboring. A quick search on the internet will turn up a few, I'm sure.
A Low Wall in 218 Bee sounds nice! I'm sure the action can handle that much pressure- a lot of them were made into varmint rifles firing higher pressure cartridges than the Bee, back in the 20's and 30's.
PJ made a good point, though- whatever cartridge you choose, you'll likely have to have the breechblock bushed for a smaller firing pin than the original.

[Larryjk]

Skeet, I have had an original Low Wall in K-Hornet for several years. The only way to know the difference between it and the original Hornet is over the chronograph. It is not difficult to form K-Hornet brass. When you rebarrel it you may want to consider not using as much headspace as the original specs because the older brass had thicker rims. You can always headspace it on the shoulder when you load the brass and it won't matter. The gunsmith in Cody shouldn't have any trouble changing the block to centerfire. I wouldn't recommend going to a cartridge that is much over 40,000 psi working pressure. That is what the little actions were made for. I know the reproductions were made in .243, but there is new metalurgy in those.

[skeet]

Quite a few years ago I had a K Hornet. It was a Winchester 43 and it was fairly accurate. So I have made the cases. Headspace on the shoulder works much better and the cases last longer. But I think I am probably going to go with the 218.. I have a couple of Hornets now..(77-22H) and think the 218 would be a neat change..and I do have some ammo and cases...and many many 40 and 45 gr bullets to use. Wasn't the Bee based on the 32-20 case??

[Larryjk]

Skeet, I think the 32-20, 25-20 and .218 are all the same case. How do you like the Hornet in the 77/22H? I reworked one trying for good accuracy, and it would shoot under 1/2 inch if you single loaded and bypass the magazine. We had seated the bullets out to touch the rifling and the magazine wasn't long enough. Too bad they didn't make that magazine about 1/4 inch longer. I have been trying to buy a Winchester Model 43 in .218, but the price is just crazy right now. People are buying that don't know the difference between the standard and Deluxe and are driving the price up on the standard. I have a local one that is tied up in an estate right now that the heirs have said they will give me first crack at when the estate is settled.

[skeet]

The 77-22 H I have that I bought new is a tack driver.. It's been good to approx 200 yds on foxes ad ground hogs. For some reason some of them don't shoot so good. Something about the bolt needing to be pinned or something. The other Hornet I have is a blued lighter bbl'd rifle. Got it in a pawn shop for a VERY good price. It however is not as accurate as the heavy Stainless one. OK on PDs and such to 150 maybe. If it was a bit more accurate I would make it a K hornet. A little story bout the stainless one. I put a junk Simmons scope on it till I got a 4x12 Leupold to mount. Darn thing is so accurate it still has the Simmons on it.I ain't changin nothing...Now as to the 43s.. Just to let you know..I doubt if you will find a very accurate one. They were few and far between. I had a Hornet that was a pretty little gun but when I shot a hornet I shot the old Savage 340. Much more accurate. Ugly though. Had a few 43s in all calibers(except 32-20) and none were barn burners as far as accuracy. Heck my last 218 was a Kimber and it would shoot. Pretty too but sadly..I sold it because..well h3ll I don't know why. There are other rifles out there for the same money that are much better shooters and much prettier than a 43. Unless you are a Winchester collector...which I was..is and am. Going to an auction next week that has a Win 43 22 Hornet in it. It'll go for more than I want but will try to buy it. There is also a Rem 721 in 300 H&H I'm going to try for.. BTW the M-70 300 H&H the old fellow gave me with the ugly stock..Well I found a Winchester stock for it for under 50 bucks. Gonna put her in an original stock thank goodness. That stock he made is UGLY

[Larryjk]

Skeet, Ylu discussion of 43s is interesting. Was the less than accurate a factor of barrel wear or some other physical problem? I know the Ruger No.1-B is very accurate in .2218 Bee but I wanted a magazine rifle, specifically the Model 43 because I have never had one. Besides the Kimber, and maybe Savage, what other bolt rifles are around in .218 Bee?

[skeet]

The question with the 43s is hard to answer. I think the factro affecting their accuracy was the rifle itself..and of course the cartridges. Those rimmed rounds were hqrd to get accuracy with anyway..especially at the time they were made. A little less care in the assembly of the rifle etc . I love Win guns but they aren't always perfect of course. Most of the guns I had were in exc condition.ie bores good et al . but at a time when the 43 cost more than ...say a 722 or 700 in 222 the 218 and Hornets were left in the dust...at least as far as accuracy anyway. Also when those rifles were made, accuracy standards were a little different than later. People didn't expect as much then. I think that is why the Hornet and 218 chamberings, which are great little cartridges, kinda died out. Nothig shot like the 222 and 222 mags or even the 223 when it came out. I just know that the 43's in most flavors just didn't shoot great. I have a guy in the next town who wants to sell me a nice Marlin 1894 in 218..and I just don't want it. Rather make my own. Oh and when I loaded those rounds back then I tried all kinds of tricks..headspacing on the rim..shoulder neck sizing etc. Nothing made any difference. If I got 2 inches I had to be happy. They used to call the 43 a poor mans M-70...but it wasn't even close. Looks more like a rich mans m-69 to me. Heck I had a Winchester 65 lever gun once in 218 that shot as well as the 43s using a peep. But that was when I could see pretty well.

[Larryjk]

Skeet, After all you told me I think I might use one of the Martini Cadet actions I have to make a .218 Bee. The triggers are tough to get just right but I am used to less than perfect triggers. I really want to try one this next summer.

[skeet]

Larry don't let what I say about 43s turn you off. You may just find one that will shoot. As far as the Martini..really neat little rifles. Always wanted one for some reason myself. Going to look at an old Walnut Hill tonight. See what it looks like. If reasonable might just have to get a little crazier...again:rolleyes: