Sage Grouse Mortality

[Larryjk]

I read the annual report by the Predatory Animal organization and research has shown that ravens are respnsible for a high percentage of sage grouse nest destruction. Crows are also included in the mix but the ravens are the real culprits. In Wyoming the crow season is Nov 1 through Feb 28, but you must take into consideration that most people don't want to freeze their tail off to shoot crows. The theory is that the Mexican Ravens (a protected species) migrate south in the winter and there is very little chance of killing them. In the Rawlins area, we have a great population of ravens that have not heard they are supposed to go south. The parking lots around the fast- food resturants are full of them and they are as thick at the landfill as the gulls are in the summer. I think the ravens should be considered as recovered due to the size of the resident flocks.

And to no ones surprise, coyote control results in much higher survival rates for antelope and deer fawns. Only research can prove these conclusions.

[skeet]

Can ya shoot them danged Ravens?? Legally I mean or are they protected like them da$%^$#*)(_M wolves?? We have lots and lots of 'em here too. I had one in a pheasant nest last summer that was in my garden. I think a snake musta kilt him..

[Larryjk]

Skeet, Not legally, unless you have a "take" permit form the Fish and Wildlife Service. If they are causing you some damage, the permits aren't too difficult to obtain.

[Nulle]

We have them in our area also. More habitat for the Grouse and other game birds is always needed. Take an overgrazed ect. plot of land and leave a small chunk of habitat and game birds head for it along with every preditor in a 3 mile area. Guess who comes out?

[Larryjk]

NUlle, There have been some studies done that show grazing, unless you are talking the scorched earth overgrazed, doesn't have too much effect of sage grouse habitat. Most of the ranchers in this area are wise to the effects of overgrazing and don't do it. That is a common thread of non-resident landowners who buy a ranch and then need a quick profit to offset paying too much for the land.

[Nulle]

The overgrazing is what I was concerned with and there is plenty of it in our Western area. Dry conditions have not helped so the problem is not all the ranchers fault in some areas. They have to do with what they have to make a living.

[Larryjk]

Nulle, I don't know what your life experiences are and if you come fram an aricultural background. I will share with you my experience from an agricultural background and an education in farm and ranch management. My father wanted me to stay on the family farm, which was large enough to sustain at least two families, mine and his. But I knew the strain it could bring to try to new practices on a farm that was his lifes work. I didn't stay because I felt we would both be happier. Many families can't make this connection, and can't face the economics of more than one generation living off of a family farm or ranch. It always provided before; why can't it do so now? Pickups used to cost about $4,000 and now are $40,000. The products produced on the agricultural unit have not inflated in selling price. Many are not that much higher than they were 40 years ago. Instead of telling the next generation you are kicking them out of the nest because there aren't enough worms in the neighborhood for all of you, you take a mortgage on the nest to buy more food. The nest has appreciated, but the products it raises haven't. You will never be able to pay that mortgage. Eventually the farm or ranch goes down in flames; or starts leasing the hunting rights to try to pay the mortgage. A short term measure. It is a very complicated issue. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you find fault with them. I have had to bow my head on occasion when I remember that old Indian proverb. My father said he couldn't believe all of the money he was making on interest when he sold the farms and put the money in CDs and other invesnts. He said he felt guilty making all of that money by not doing anything.

[Nulle]

? Being from Eastern and Western SD = yup I know about farming and ranching. Not finding fault with anybody on this one.