Bush/Obama I am getting pissed.

[jon lynn]

This hostility is not directed toward HC, but more to where I live, and who I work with. This is the only place I can vent, and keep my job.

So those of you who have read my stuff over the years, kind of know my gray matter and how I tic, all the rest, read in to it what you want.

Okay, Obama is a huge let down. Everyone is complaining about it, both party's in fact.

But I am tired of Republicans, calling ME a Bleeding Heart Liberal or some other name when ever I say something they don't like. I am going to start sluing people in their big damned mouths!

My attitude is going from, just look at facts, block out the rhetoric from the donkeys and elephants,and find a grain of truth, to F-U! Ive had it. Enough!

So I say, yes Obama sucks, huge empty bag of do nothing.

Now tell me what the Bush era did? I see eight years of nothingness too.

I was only in Desert Storm, but I tried to re-up to go to the next fight (failed physical), so I can say this with a clear conscious about the second invasion: WHERE ARE THE WMD?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Don't let it get to you.....it's just politics, and it's not worth the hypertension and a stroke.

I listened to Obama's speech today re: change in immigration policy. He talked about the great things immigrants have brought to this country.....can't disagree with that, but what he has FAILED to address is that no one is against LEGAL immigration; it's the illegal ones that are the danger (esp. since they now may have terrorist ties).

I don't think any politician gets it anymore.....the idea of serving in political office was suppose to be an honor and duty, not a means of lining your pocket or 'making your party look good".

I have voted for the Libertarian in the last several elections, simply because I feel that they are one of the few parties that are in touch with the real will of the people, for the most part. I have been told that "I wasted my vote" because they had NO chance of winning.....I didn't know that this was just a high school election! I thought we were suppose to elect the best person for the job! Maybe if more people would bother to study what the candidates have to say, or better yet, press them as to HOW they intend to change things, we might get a better system of government.

But until that happens, I don't think things will get better; I do not remember America ever being this polarized between the two major parties.

....and to those who told me I 'wasted' my vote: My reply was plain and simple.....The only vote that is 'wasted' is the one that is not cast!

[GoodOlBoy]

Keep in mind that 8 years of nothingness was better than 1 year of going downhill at somewhere past the speed of sound. . . . . thats my 2 cents.

GoodOlBoy

[jon lynn]

Keep in mind that 8 years of nothingness was better than 1 year of going downhill at somewhere past the speed of sound. . . . . thats my 2 cents.

And I totally respect that. Because you did not hang a label on me or call me a name because of my personal view.

What is the reason for my rant?

I am truly disappointed about the time/place/reason for the Iraq invasion. This really put a huge dent in the priority of the Afghan Invasion, which I was 100% for from the start!

But I was poking the stick at Fox News, (not Bush nor the Republican party), and only quoted what was said, whole quotes, not chopped. I even put some stuff about CNN and Courik (who I only watched once).

Then I get 50 replies calling me a liberal (I don't even know what that really is any more), ass****e, and what really pissed me off, 'UN-AMERICAN' And was told I was spewing rhetoric. Even if it was a simple statement of fact.

Now, to wrap up, just so you know, Because I have mentioned this many times before: I HATE, AND DO NOT TRUST EITHER PARTY!

Hillary scares the ever loving crap out of me. And I am very worried that she will make it to the Oval Office one day. I would much rather have Bush again, than her at all!

[Larryjk]

jon lynn, You assked where are the WMD? I think they went to Seria. It is a fact that weapons using poisonous gas were used against the Kurds and killed about 7500 in one attack. That is a WMD and "Chemical Alli" was hanged for that war crime. As for whatever else Saddam had, we will probably never know. Did he not have them or did he pass them on to Seria (sp)? Remember the weapon inspector said when asked about the WMDs they were searching for, " We didn't find any" rather than saying there weren't any.

[GoodOlBoy]

jon lynn its a free country. You made a bad choice, alot of people did. I have little problem with you politcally if any at all. Why? Because I work with ALOT of people who voted for That illegal alien in the white house and will defend him forever despite the damage he has done. The only thing they can do is start spouting all the stuff they didn't like about Bush. Whether you liked Bush or hated him has nothing to do with the pure fact that Oblama will go down as the absolute worst president in history. He has done more damage to this country than both Bushes and Clinton combined. . . .

Did I like the war in Iraq? No. Was it nessisary? Probably. I like less being told that if I don't have health insurance I can go to jail. Whats next? You own a gm car or go to prison? Buy a iphone? Where does it stop?

We need less guvmint plain and simple.

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

You know JL..GOB is right.. I have very little use for either party anymore either. But I do know the people we have running this country are not Democrats or Republicans..they are Marxists. The definition of Marxist is Communist...just in case you don't know. We have had a great country for a couple hundred years mainly beacause people were self reliant..and were responsible for their actions. That is no longer the case Blame everything on Bush?? My friend you only see the things that happened because of policies that were promulgated by the people in our legislature. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac..Ordered to guarantee unsafe loans by People Like Barney Frank?? Was Bush a great lead3er?? I don't really think so..but no matter what you say or do..these people running the country now..are sure a whole lot worse..and it gonna be worse in the future..And they are stacking the deck in the Supreme Court so they can CHANGE the Constitution to suit them.. Good luck to you my friend.. These people are going to make everything...better...for them..at yours and my expense. I'm just sorry that the people who supported this guy and his henchmen..couldn't see that this is what was going to happen..I did..and will say right now... YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET!! Unless we can derail 'em in November. If ya voted for him...have ya had enough yet??

Oh...and don't forget TERM LIMITS...2 TERMS

[jon lynn]

My 'views' are not the issue of my topic.

Verbal assaults is my issue.

Don't call me UN American. (Not you, the person who said it to me).

I don't call others names because I don't support their politics. When I told a family member ,(by marriage), I was going Democrat this time, he said "Your a %^$#@*& idiot then!"

Had he not been married to a sister I care very much for, he would have been put in a hospital bed I promise you. But the extent of my verbal roughness is: "I think your wrong." That's it, what more is their?

If any of us knew truly who would make a good president, we would be in a better place now.

Like me, don't like me, it is a way of life. Call me names listed above, count your blessings.

[skeet]

Actually the view part is what caused the verbal assault. People are very verbal about their politics and religions JL. You know that.. When we say to someone something that opposes their point of view and we are very passionate about it..that is what you get..Politically correct I'm not..Just to the right of ol Attilla the HUN.. but if you say to me I'm going to vote for Obama..Or Hillary or Ol Al Gore..and I am passionately opposed to them... I will ask you why. I won't call you an %*($#&^$#^%$@#*^&&until I here your reasons..and if they aren't well thought out..I may just point that out to you.. Personally I feel that anyone who voted for any of the idiots we have running the country today..surely didn't look at the root causes of all the troubles this country has.. I personally thought the Iraq thing was called for..The Afghanistan part of it..not really. Heck the English couldn't fix it..the Russians couldn't so why do we think we have to. Being right there next to ol Attilla I feel we know who supports the terrorists in the world..Those are the ones who should be gone..as in GONE! Wether it be a guy on the street in Kabul or the king of an Arab country..If they support terrorism.. Gone..and we can do that. If we really let 'em know..REALLY..the problem will resolve itself..No it ain't easy..it won't be easy..But if you let the terrorists KNOW that if they persist..you will seriously kill them, their families and their friends..they will think twice. Wouldn't you? They have no consideration for the people they kill..but when the birds come home to roost!!?? What then? No that does not make us nice guys..Nice guys sometimes do finish last

Now a really good question..Do you think you did good helping to get the powers that be elected?? Do you feel like that ((*^%^$(^%(**(Idiot your BIL called you?? I've felt like an idiot too many times to not say it hasn't happened to me..And if we live long 'nuff..It'll happen again. Hopefully not on such a large scale though. What we have now is changing our country and pushing us all in a direction I surely don't want to go.

[jon lynn]

Skeet,

I truly did not think that John McCain would have done better, at the time. I truly thought Obama's economic education would be a plus. I really did not realize he had the Clinton view of "Let's go European."

But if you would have asked me if Obama would have bailed out millionaires from the banks, before the fact, I would have said no. I would not have expected any person to do so.

I do agree with the American car bailout though. The thought of Ford and Chevrolet going under really put a bad taste in my mouth. But only one hit, and so many misses, he's out of my line up.

But I did drop the ball on the border issue. I say we pull a Pink Floyd and build a wall. I really did not think he would weenie out on the now non existent border.

And no matter who was in, is in, or will be in the Oval Office, needs to tell El Presedente of Meh-he-co where to put that jalapeno!

I wish the Congress and Senate had term limits too. A Representative who has been in the Congress or Senate forever is worthless. I have NEVER ever heard about anything Ted Kennedy had ever done, except live off the image of two dead brothers.

[skeet]

JL..I didn't have any use for McCain eithr.. But with the way things were going in Congress he was a counterpoint to them. He could veto bad bills. Even if the Congress had passed the health care thing the way they did he would have vetoed it..just to make 'em go back and consider the bill. The last 2 years of Bush 2 the Democraps controlled Congress..They passed the stupid legislation..and we had Republicans trying to get along with the other side voting for some of the stupid things.

As far as the border thing. We really do need to round up the illegals..send 'em home and tell 'em to do it legally and pay taxes and keep the money here. The 2nd largest influx of cash in the Mexican system is money from people working illegally here and sending the money back to where they came from..I personally would limit that..50 bucks a month is surely enough..If they want to come here and stay..No money to where they came from.. But most of 'em come here to just work..and if they get caught they go home and come back again later..A database of them is necessary. If caught more than once..short jail and deport..next time something more important..they after all want the money..

As far as Nobama going European...not even close..going communist is more like it..Europe is Socialist..and they are even finding out that it don't work..

The car bailout..was a wrong message to the auto makers. It said to them that the country can't do without them. They survived the 30's depression..They would survive this one. It was especially wrong for a president of this country to fire people working in the auto industry.. Something not many know..GM sold off the Hummer Division..to the Communist Chinese.. Who's gonna make our military Hummers?? The Com Chinks are not our friends.

And you are correct..the Mexican el Presidente can stay in Mexico..while we send all his illegals back..He helped encourage them to come here. He is PART of the problem. And our president should stay out of state politics. He's wrong and the Aridzona bill is their business.

Hey I voted for Tricky Dicky But even if he was a crook..he wasn't an America hating Communist like Nobama. Oh and if ya think I didn't vote for Nobama cause he's black or an illegal(which I feel is the truth) I would have and enjoyed voting for Condoleeza Rice..Black and a woman..Oh my!! She does seem to like this country..contrary to our esteemed Speaker of the House Pelosi..who thinks unemployment benefits are a stimulus to the economy.. another communist..

[jon lynn]

.contrary to our esteemed Speaker of the House Pelosi..who thinks unemployment benefits are a stimulus to the economy.. another communist..

Agree 100%

[Jack]

Jon, the nature of the internet lends itself to name calling, unfortunately. Unlike face to face, a person is unlikely to get punched in the mouth for name calling on the 'net.
Most people, too, have their position/preference/prejudice- whatever you choose to call it, and aren't interested in really listening to anyone else's.
Most internet political 'discussions' generate far more heat than light, and persuade no one.

[Joe Boleo]

I hear you and would say that since you own several firearms that you are not a bleeding heart liberal or any of that negative stuff. We have two major political parties in this country today and both spend way too much money that we do not have. The only difference that I see between the major political parties is what they overspend money on. I became a Libertarian and could support Independents, Constitutional or Tea Party candidates. Problem is the major parties control the campaign money and other good parties are having a tough time getting the millions to campaign. Take care...
Joe

[popplecop]

I hate to say this, it's an old saying but in the last election I voted for what I thought was the lesser of 2 evils. I voted for McCain but was not that impressed with him politically, am proud of his military service though.

[Larryjk]

I was reading the thread through to follow the thoughts and saw what I wrote. Really, I must have been having a "senior moment". I looked at how I spelled Syria and thought to myself, "What the heck was I doing"? The only excuse I have is the "senior moment".

[Seawolf1090]

So the Chinese own GM Hummer - not an issue, as the Hummer is simply a rebodied Tahoe/Yukon, NOT the same as the military HMMV still being built HERE by a different company.
I have switched party affiliation from GOP to Independent. After this failed 2008 'election' (I call it the "Immaculate Deception") I cannot trust the Republicans any more - they never questioned obungle's bonafidees, and simply let McCain run on empty and fail. The GOP has been utterly marginalized and emasculated by The Zombie Queen pelosi, in her mind-numbingly blind hatred of anything 'Bush'. obungle is getting his legislation passed without any blocking by The Groady Old Party - they simply do not matter any more. obungle has his Super Majority of Koolade Drinkers and Chicago Mafia homeboys. Maybe, IF the GOP can grow a pair and actually take some more seats in November, AND remember their conservative voting base/constituents - then MAYBE we can mute some of the current misadministration's worst efforts to Communize this nation.
It's either that, or we go to Concorde 2.0 and Yorktown 2.0 - not to be desired but maybe eventually necessary......

As far as I am concerned, the magic kenyan's total FUBAR in dealing with the Gulf Disaster has buried any further political asperations of his - though unfortunately the damage has been done - it's gonna take years to undo some of what the traitor has accomplished - much can never be fixed. BP should seriously consider shoving him headfirst down that pipe in his skivvies toting a bucket of cement -"Plug that hole!" :mad:

[fabsroman]

Keep in mind that 8 years of nothingness was better than 1 year of going downhill at somewhere past the speed of sound. . . . . thats my 2 cents.

GoodOlBoy

Bush was handed a tough situation. The stock market had just tanked in 2000I believe, and then 9/11 happened less than 9 months into his Presidency. He was dealing with a recession of his own back in 2003/2004 and actually gave out a tax rebate refund at that time to try and stir the economy back up. Unemployment held around the 5% range during his Presidency and it never got better. It was sufficient for him to get re-elected.

However, let's not forget that Obama inherited an economy that was in the meltdown phase. Just like Bush pretty much inherited 9/11. Bush and Greenspan allowed housing to get way out of control, but that might have also been what got him re-elected. In 2004, when we bought this townhouse at $333K, the housing market was on fire. The following year, this place was worth $395K and we were able to refinance it and get rid of our second mortgage. Now, this place is worth $305K. People that were using their homes as ATM's during Bush's Presidency can no longer do so. Hence, the huge drop in consumer spending.

Also, keep in mind that Bush and Paulson was pushing for the first bailout package.

Essentially, all of our politicians suck and are a bunch of do nothing fat cats that are looking out for corporate America.

On the flip side, Americans are a bunch of greedy people that want everything now and don't want to work hard for it and save for a rainy day. Not saying that applies directly to people on this board, but to the majority of Americans out there.

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

I truly did not think that John McCain would have done better, at the time. I truly thought Obama's economic education would be a plus. I really did not realize he had the Clinton view of "Let's go European."

But if you would have asked me if Obama would have bailed out millionaires from the banks, before the fact, I would have said no. I would not have expected any person to do so.

I do agree with the American car bailout though. The thought of Ford and Chevrolet going under really put a bad taste in my mouth. But only one hit, and so many misses, he's out of my line up.

But I did drop the ball on the border issue. I say we pull a Pink Floyd and build a wall. I really did not think he would weenie out on the now non existent border.

And no matter who was in, is in, or will be in the Oval Office, needs to tell El Presedente of Meh-he-co where to put that jalapeno!

I wish the Congress and Senate had term limits too. A Representative who has been in the Congress or Senate forever is worthless. I have NEVER ever heard about anything Ted Kennedy had ever done, except live off the image of two dead brothers.

Obama's reasoning for not doing anything about the border is to try and pressure the Republicans into agreeing to some type of common sense immigration reform. Yeah, I agree that we have legislation in place that says who is and is not illegal. The problem is that it just might not make sense anymore. I would love to see them try something, anything. A compromise to make those good people currently here illegally, legal, and the building of a wall, mote, fence, etc. at the same time. Just get it done for Christ;s sake and move onto other issues like making Medicare and Social Security solvent. I think illegal immigration has been an issue for 10+ years.

How about foreign oil. That has been an issue since Richard Nixon (i.e., before I was born). How freaking hard is it to get us off of foreign oil?

[Ol` Joe]

Bush offered a one time amnesty back in 2006 that was supposed to be followed with better border control. We all see how well that worked.
I would not give a single illegal citizenship, ever, if I had my say. They come into the country illegally they are forever illegals, and not eligible for citizenship. Their kids too.

[skeet]

What OJ said.....and why don'cha tell us how ya really feel OJ. Sorry Fabs but illegal is just that.. illegal..and the people that employ 'em too. They break the law. Greed Then again Fabs..I ain't sorry cause truth is truth whether you turn a blind eye to it or not.

[fabsroman]

Bush offered a one time amnesty back in 2006 that was supposed to be followed with better border control. We all see how well that worked.
I would not give a single illegal citizenship, ever, if I had my say. They come into the country illegally they are forever illegals, and not eligible for citizenship. Their kids too.

I didn't know about the Bush amnesty program. I know it was a proposal, but was it actually passed? I think it was still be debating in 2007 among the US Senate. Did it actually pass. If I had to guess, I would say NOPE. I cannot believe that I would have actually missed the passing of this legislation.

Do you have a link to show me that there was actually an amnesty program in place in 2006? If there were, I am pretty sure I would have heard about it and that I would have had a client or two that would have taken advantage of it.

[fabsroman]

What OJ said.....and why don'cha tell us how ya really feel OJ. Sorry Fabs but illegal is just that.. illegal..and the people that employ 'em too. They break the law. Greed Then again Fabs..I ain't sorry cause truth is truth whether you turn a blind eye to it or not.

Look, you and I will just have to agree to disagree. Yeah, they came here illegally because we have laws on our books that make it illegal. However, we can also change those laws or pass additional laws that now make them legal. That is what I would propose.

Kind of like the person that breaks the law only to receive Probation Before Judgment in Maryland even though they plead guilty to the crime. Yep, they broke the law, but they are given a second chance.

I am proposing the same thing for the illegals that are currently here and that have proven they would be good US citizens in the long run.

Again, we will just have to agree to disagree.

[multibeard]

[QUOTE=fabsroman;336872]
I am proposing the same thing for the illegals that are currently here and that have proven they would be good US citizens in the long run.
QUOTE]

How do you tell the difference between the good illegals and the bad ones they are all illegal. Around my area you can not tell the legals from the illegals let alone the good from the bad.

A couple of months ago the border patrol picked up 60+ illegals from one of the biggest fruit and vegtable processing plants in the country. I am sure once cherry processing get in full swing this week they can pick up that many if not more from the same plant. Some will probably be the same ones they deported last time.

Send them back and make them come here legally just like your kin and mine.

[fabsroman]

[QUOTE=fabsroman;336872]
I am proposing the same thing for the illegals that are currently here and that have proven they would be good US citizens in the long run.
QUOTE]

How do you tell the difference between the good illegals and the bad ones they are all illegal. Around my area you can not tell the legals from the illegals let alone the good from the bad.

A couple of months ago the border patrol picked up 60+ illegals from one of the biggest fruit and vegtable processing plants in the country. I am sure once cherry processing get in full swing this week they can pick up that many if not more from the same plant. Some will probably be the same ones they deported last time.

Send them back and make them come here legally just like your kin and mine.

The way you can tell is to do a criminal background check on them. If they haven't been in trouble, they have been here 5 years, and they can pay something in back taxes, I would suggest letting them apply for a greencard and start paying taxes a plenty like the rest of us do.

At the same time we do the above, we lock down the borders, period. I agree with keeping them out. The problem is with the ones that are already here. Until we really start fining the snot out of companies that hire them, they will remain here for quite a long time and they will be a drag on a lot of governmental units, one of which I believe is hospital emergency rooms.

[Ol` Joe]

I didn't know about the Bush amnesty program. I know it was a proposal, but was it actually passed? I think it was still be debating in 2007 among the US Senate. Did it actually pass. If I had to guess, I would say NOPE. I cannot believe that I would have actually missed the passing of this legislation.

Do you have a link to show me that there was actually an amnesty program in place in 2006? If there were, I am pretty sure I would have heard about it and that I would have had a client or two that would have taken advantage of it.


Ya know I just double check, and it was never voted on. I was sure I`d heard somewhere it was.
I`m sorry for any false info I passed by carelessness on my part. thanks for the catch.

[fabsroman]

Ya know I just double check, and it was never voted on. I was sure I`d heard somewhere it was.
I`m sorry for any false info I passed by carelessness on my part. thanks for the catch.

No problem. I don't always get everything right either. I just think ALL of us need to be as informed about stuff as possible before we start making opinions on things.

For instance, I had a couple in here one day that thought any poor person qualified for Medicaid. I had to tell them that the person had to either be 18 or younger and born to poor parent(s) or 65 or over and have less than $2,500. Of course, there are about 10 exceptions for people between the age of 18 and a day to 65 less a day, but those 10 exceptions are pretty stringent (e.g., people with Lou Gehrig's disease). People with Parkinsons don't even qualify for Medicaid.

Anyway, about the only way this nation is going to continue on with its greatness is if people stop spending tons of time in front of the TV, video games, etc., and actually get interested in knowledge. Then, we might actually be able to do something at the voting booth.

Glad to hear you went back and checked it out.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Anyway, about the only way this nation is going to continue on with its greatness is if people stop spending tons of time in front of the TV, video games, etc., and actually get interested in knowledge. Then, we might actually be able to do something at the voting booth.


I have to agree with Fabs that we, as a nation, are short sighted.....we ***** and complain about our dependency on foreign oil, giving our money to the A-rabs, blah, blah, blah......but we never try and develop alternative energy sources. Look at the dept of Energy....developed back in the late 70's/early 80's to solve the problem of dependency on foreign oil, it has accomplished NOTHING in the 30+ years it has been in exsistance......nothing at all! Talk about a waste. Don't know what their budget is, but I can tell you that if I had the power, that is one dept that would be disbanded immediately!
The there is the BP oil spill.....didn't we learn our lesson with the Exxon Valdez? Apparently NOT!
As long as we as a nation are 'entertained' with the crap that comes out of Hollyweird, then everything is "O.K."

....and lets add the 4-5 generations that have been on welfare and never worked a day in their lives. Does history repeat itself? I'm reminded of something about "Bread & Circuses".....and the fall of another great republic.

[PJgunner]

We're getting a bit OT here :eek: and I'll jump in on this myself in a bit.
Jon, I don't think you and I have ever had any kind of disagreement but even if we did I would try to almost be civil. ;):D
s the feds have an immigration law in place, although they do not bother to enforce it, considering on how much our buffoon in the Oval Orifice has spend keeping his records hidden, there is that old saying,about something rotten in Denmark although here is one about a woodpile that is a lot more appropriate.
However, as this had deteriorated into illegal immigration, my thought are this.
Sorry fabs but here we're gonna disagree. There is no way I will accept a reform program that gives them amnesty nor a path to citizenship. It makes no difference to me that the feds only consider it a misdemeanor. Compare Mexico's immigration laws to ours. We slap them on the wrist if they sneak across the line but Mexico? Read the following

New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message...
1 There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
9.. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Too strict?......
The above laws are the current immigration laws of MEXICO !!!
These sound fine to me, NOW, how can we get these laws to be America's immigration laws??

WAKE UP, AMERICA - we are about to lose our country.........

We should enact those very same laws immediately if not sooner.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

We're getting a bit OT here :eek: and I'll jump in on this myself in a bit.
Jon, I don't think you and I have ever had any kind of disagreement but even if we did I would try to almost be civil. ;):D
s the feds have an immigration law in place, although they do not bother to enforce it, considering on how much our buffoon in the Oval Orifice has spend keeping his records hidden, there is that old saying,about something rotten in Denmark although here is one about a woodpile that is a lot more appropriate.
However, as this had deteriorated into illegal immigration, my thought are this.
Sorry fabs but here we're gonna disagree. There is no way I will accept a reform program that gives them amnesty nor a path to citizenship. It makes no difference to me that the feds only consider it a misdemeanor. Compare Mexico's immigration laws to ours. We slap them on the wrist if they sneak across the line but Mexico? Read the following

New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message...
1 There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
9.. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Too strict?......
The above laws are the current immigration laws of MEXICO !!!
These sound fine to me, NOW, how can we get these laws to be America's immigration laws??

WAKE UP, AMERICA - we are about to lose our country.........

We should enact those very same laws immediately if not sooner.
Paul B.

Honestly, that list sounds like something that would come in an e-mail forward. I checked for it on Snopes, but there was nothing there. Do you have a source for it? If so, would you mind sharing.

This is what I found about immigrating to Mexico:

http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/immigration.htm

If you read through that, it seems like people can actually become citizens of Mexico, but it is a long process.

The thing that kind of gives that list away is "Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.". If somebody is already living in Mexico, how can they be a non-resident?

Maybe that list is legit, but it just doesn't sound like it from what I have read and the way it reads.

[Larryjk]

Now AT Eric Holder is going to follow the Democratic Party playbook and slam another suit against Arizona. This one will claim they are sponsoring racial profiling. He didn't file this with the first one because he wants to have them defend innumerable suits, which is more expensive than one suit. Their are also 7 states filing against AZ; states that are following the democratic line.
Does this practice ring a bell on what was being done to Sarah Pallin in Alaska? Bury them in frivolous suits so they have to defend each one separately to drive up the cost.
It is getting close to campaign time where the Dems will not campaign on issues, but on character assassination. They will follow the pattern of attacking the individual rather than issues. I realize this will make some unhappy, but before you attack me think about whether or not I am correct!

[skeet]

Hey Fabs..In the US they would give 'em the exam in Spanish.. Last sentence. But still my friend..what is wrong with making 'em come here legally?? Send 'em back and give 'em first dibs...after paying your idea of tax and all past Social Security taxes.. And I feel we should put a restriction on the amount of money they can legally send out of the country(60 bucks a month per family?) at least till they attain US citizenship..taking the test in English. And no sponsorship of any other family members. Your family and mine(well, some) came here that way..what's wrong with it now? I really don't see you understanding the idea of illegally..And as far as rounding 'em up..if we give 'em the option of surrendering and being deported and put on the first dibs list..or not doing so and being deported with no chance of coming back.. I think most would opt for the first option..especially if we tell 'em any property and money would be confiscated.. Personally as illegals, I feel that they should NOT be covered under the rights you and I enjoy...They are not citizens so why should they enjoy them? And don't get into legal mumbo jumbo.. Common sense should prevail here. Illegal activity of ALL types causes us as citizens more and more money all the time...especially with all the politicians feathering their nest at our expense by excusing this act and that act..excusing 15-20 million illegal acts by illegal ailens is just inexcuseable. So if I have to pay for their illegal activities..I'd rather pay to send 'em back and help to pay it by confiscating their illegally obtained property including monies. Oh as far as the nonresidents not voting..maybe it should read illegal non residents LOL



May I be granted Mexican Citizenship?
. We recommend that you contact an immigration lawyer for full counsel on these matters.

You will be asked to undertake an exam, which you must pass, in order to acquire naturalization/citizenship. An immigration lawyer will be able to advise you about the exam and what things you will need to study and research in order to be able to pass it. The examination is of a "multiple choice" type, comprises of some fifteen questions, and is not hard***8212;although you will need a basic grasp of the Spanish language to pass it.

[skeet]

Now AT Eric Holder is going to follow the Democratic Party playbook and slam another suit against Arizona. This one will claim they are sponsoring racial profiling. He didn't file this with the first one because he wants to have them defend innumerable suits, which is more expensive than one suit. Their are also 7 states filing against AZ; states that are following the democratic line.
!

Larry I feel you are correct..but there is another caveat that will follow..they will file it in a court that is favorable to the US That is what all attorneys try to do..get a case in a favored judges court or a jurisdiction that is friendly to them.. Ask Fabs..he knows

[Larryjk]

Skeet, "Shopping" for a favorable judge is always something environmental organizations make sure they have covered. Why wouldn't the US AG do the same thing. Many people (and I am one of them) are saying that federal judges should have geographic boundaries for cases they can hear. At the present time, the enviros are running to a federal judge in Montana, who they seem to have in their pocket. Just my humble opinion. This judge usually finds in their favor. The agency I used to work for would start working on the appeal anytime we had a case before a certain judge in Wyoming. He would always find against us and we knew we had to get the case before the 10th Circuit in Denver if there was any hope of getting a favorable ruling. Kind of gives you a bad taste to know this is how the law really operates.

[fabsroman]

Larry I feel you are correct..but there is another caveat that will follow..they will file it in a court that is favorable to the US That is what all attorneys try to do..get a case in a favored judges court or a jurisdiction that is friendly to them.. Ask Fabs..he knows

He cannot file it in any state other than Arizona. So, he would have to initially file it in federal court in Arizona and then it can be appealled to the appropriate federal Circuit Court and the US Supreme Court if it goes that far.

I read your other post about the first dibs issue versus being put on the "black list"/permanently banned list, and I kind of like it. However, that will take some guts to get passed. If we were to deport them though, I probably would make the "back taxes" a lot less than I previously proposed.

[skeet]

I read your other post about the first dibs issue versus being put on the "black list"/permanently banned list, and I kind of like it. However, that will take some guts to get passed. If we were to deport them though,

I probably would make the "back taxes" a lot less than I previously proposed.

Why would you make the back taxes less?? SHEESH Fabs..for the most part the illegals in this country are costing you in taxes every day.. Just an average of let's say Five dollars a day..times being conservative, 15 million people kinda adds up to a fair chunk of pocket change(politicians pocket change). And I can tell you that 5 dollars a day doesn't come close.. They get everything that they can possibly get and you me all of us pay for it.. And you want to be easy on a person costimng you a lot of money by doing illegal acts..If you did half as much you'd(or me) be in jail. Check out just one county in California...San Diego County..they are in the hole a minimum of 800 MILLION dollars if I read the figures correctly..One county..Hospitals have closed there because they are going broke supporting the illegals health care..I don't feel sorry for them..I understand they come here to WORK..Then do it legally..And tax them...but they don't want to be taxed..they want it free and clear to send back to Mexico and let us pay for it.. While we are at it lets tax the hell out of the companies who have illegal workers..Say a 1000 dollars a day for each one they find there..every day.. and lets make the CEOs and other bigwigs in the company be legally responsible and send 'em to jail..the practice would stop..and some of the middle management people(read as little guys) wouldn't have to take the heat. Fabs..Read some of the Federalist papers..Those ol guys really did know what could happen.. And what they said could happen sure seems to be happening now..with a bunch of commiecraps running this country..and bleeding hearts just saying..but look...they just want a better life..Well if they do..then do it LEGALLY. Your families did..so did mine.. What is WRONG with that??

[multibeard]

Lets deport the illegals NOW!

Then bring back the Nationals Program as we called it back in the 50"s and 60'. The came here legally to pick fruit and vegtables. When the season ended they went back to Mexico, they did not stay here and leach off of the system. They got none of the benifits like day care free food, free health care that the migrants do today.

Fabs If you don't think the illegals are leaching off the sytem you are welcome to come to West Michigan and spend some time in the summer. Oh no you can come any time of the year because they do not leave any more in the winter they have it to good here all year round. They have planned parent hood. They plan to have their babies in Michigan because they do not have to pay a cent to have there kids.

It used to be that the farmers had familys to come stay in there free housing to pick but now they end up with groups of single young males in units instead of familys. How many of them are legal or illegal I do not know but I lean to alot of thembeing illegal. They are making good money as I watched 6 of them each cash a $400 weeks pay check at the very end of asparagus season. I am sure their checks are alot bigger when the season is in full swing. I know they earn it but what about the benifits that go alond with working here.