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View Full Version : Possible Dangerous Cartridges, CAUTION!


bulletpusher
11-02-2010, 09:50 AM
Just a note of Caution to shooters of factory cartridges.

My boss told me of a primer detonation in one of his rifles. He was shooting on his private range and he had a pressure release through the relief ports of the receiver of his rifle and hit him in the face. Thankfully he was not injured.

The primer was destroyed and the cartridge case was stuck in the chamber. This is a .308 Winchester cambered rifle. We talked about what could have been the problem that caused the primer to blow.

Now my first surprise was the cartridges that he was shooting were Black Hills Red Box HPBT Moly coated Match (don't know the bullet weight). Black Hills has a solid reputation anywhere in the world, and I have to believe this has to be a very isolated incident.

When this happened, after pulling the trigger and the primer firing, releasing the gasses and other material from the relief holes in the receiver, he tried to open the bolt and found it was hard to open. The extractor on the bolt is now chipped, and the cartridge was stuck in the chamber and he didn't think the bullet had gone downrange like it should have.

We talked about what could have gone wrong, i.e. wrong calibre cartridge for the rifle, wrong powder in a factory cartridge, bad primer, etc. etc. Told him he should try to bump the cartridge out of the chamber and that if he had any trouble with to see a qualified gun smith.

That was yesterday, today he brought me the cartridge that he removed. The cartridge was of the correct caliber and the case was slightly collapsed due to bumping it from chamber. Bullet looked to be the right one but was pushed back down in the case a little which made it hard to check for proper dia. and the case still felt like it was full of unburned powder. The primer was not in the case and looked like it had been flattened with a hammer and the primer pocket was blackened of course. Cause at this point was unknown.

And now for the cause that we found. After thinking about it for a moment I took a paper clip and tried to push it through the carbon covering the flash hole, ended up with a very shiny brass dot in the bottom of the primer pocked where the hole should have been. The primer flash hole did not go all the way thru to the powder. The primer had perform by going off, it just didn't have anywhere to go.

I repeat this is a Black Hills Red Box factory cartridge and not a handload. I've seen other cartridge makers over the years that had some malfunction in a cartridge here and there, but this is the first time I've seen it from Black Hills.

Just thought everyone should know, for future reference, this could have been a lot worse than just a blown primer.

Bulletpusher

Mr. 16 gauge
11-02-2010, 10:38 AM
Do you have a lot # for this ammuntion, and has the shooter or yourself contacted Black Hills ammuntion? If so, what was there reply?
I have shot Black Hills ammo in the past as well, and have had no issues......as a matter of fact, I thought it was pretty darn good ammo.
Does Black Hills use there own brass, or do the purchase brass from another manufacturer?

bulletpusher
11-02-2010, 10:42 AM
MR. 16 Gauge,

He is going to contact Black Hills and let them know what happened, we just talked about that this morning when he showed me the cartridge. This just happened this last Saturday.

I will ask him about the lot no. for that one. If I get it I will post it.

Bulletpusher

Adam Helmer
11-02-2010, 01:46 PM
bulletpusher,

Thanks for the post. It seems the primer flash hole was never punched in the subject case. Stuff happens, even in factory ammo. I thought a "checker" would spot that in the loading process. It is good to advise Black Hills of the one that got by them.

Adam

bulletpusher
11-03-2010, 10:56 AM
The Lot No. on the flap of the box is as follows:

1424040607

This is on the end flap of a Black Hills Red Box of new .308 Win. Match Moly Coated, 168 Gr. Boat Tail Hollow Point.

It was round no. 15 from that box that the primer let go due to it having no place to go. (i.e. lack of a flash hole in the primer pocket).

You guys asked and thats all that I can give you at this time.

Let me know what you guys think.

Bulletpusher

skeet
11-03-2010, 12:41 PM
As has been said many many times..crap do happen. That really doesn't happen very often though. I have only seen one case kinda do that. It was a Berdan primed 8mm Mauser. Blew the primer at the shot..Only had one flash hole of the 2..Good grief..it was wayyy too many years ago too. Rifle was a war time Mauser dated about 1944 if i remember..the ammo I can't remember other than being Berdan. Didn't hurt the rifle or the shooter. Just sounded odd so we looked. Shootin rats at the dump. What can i say..it was cheap ammo...and a cheap gun too. I know the rifle was bought from Kleins in Chicago..ammo..who knows. The guy also had a Ruger 44 mag semi auto carbine..neat but spensive to shoot..even in the 60's

Seawolf1090
11-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Yep, happens on rare occasions with the best companies.
I once had a box of Winchester 9mm Luger wherein one round 'fizzled' in the pistol, not firing just smoking. The primer was in sideways and got crushed - finally 'popped' by the firing pin.
TWO more rounds in that box had the same sideways primers!! :eek:

Turned me off Winny Whitebox 9mm for years.......

skeet
11-06-2010, 05:28 PM
I had a shotgun shell that had a sideways primer once. I was really surprised it hadn't gone off in the loading machine. It was a Federal Gold medal..12 ga.. Still have it somewhere here..along with other screwed up ammo from the factories. Most of them were crimping problems on shotshells or the brass at the base was crushed..Wouldn't go in the gun.. Those Winnies musta been made on a Friday afternoon...LOL!!

bulletpusher
11-08-2010, 08:06 AM
My Bother-in-Law gave me a box of 20, .45 ACP Winchester Black Talons 230 grain way back when for Christmas I think.

I kept that box for about 6 months before I decided to see how they performed in my 1911A1. In the first magazine full that I tried 2 would not go off. I re-cocked the hammer 5 times on each of those 2 and it was no joy.

In the second magazine I had three more not go off even after repeated attempts at dropping the hammer on it.

That was 5 out of 14 rounds, I loaded the last six up and let go. I figured that 5 out of 14 was not good odds for a defensive cartridge. The last magazine of 6 I got 2 that didn't go off.

A brand new box of 20 cartridges designed for defensive use and 7 didn't go off. I took those 7 cartridges and through them as far out onto the shooting range as I could. I've seen two different problems with Winchester ammo in two different Calibers. I've not bought Winchester since.

Another time someone I worked with got a brand new 7mm Rem. Winchester M70 from her boyfriend. They were trying to sight it in with a brand new box of Winchester cartridges. I don't remember what type of bullet was in them but about the 5th or 6th round they fired was apparently a squib load, it had no powder. It had just enuff power from the magnum primer to push the bullet almost half way down the barrel. There was an accident waiting to happen. Thankfully they realized that something was wrong and didn't attempt to shoot again. The then sent it Winchester to have the bullet removed. That put me off of Winchester for good.

Did what happen mean that Winchester was not any good, no it does not, but it does means I will not trust my life or my hunting to Winchester.

Bulletpusher