180 grain .357 loads

[Mr. 16 gauge]

For those of you who reload for the .357 magnum, what is your bullet of choice for deer hunting? I picked a 180 grain bullet, and found a quite accurate load out of my 6" Colt, but when I did some expansion testing this past weekend, the results were rather disappointing.
For those of you who are loading a 180 grain bullet, what bullet are you using and what powder?
Thanks in advance..........

[GoodOlBoy]

158 grain rnfp lead, just like I use in my 38 special loads with a little less umph behind them. Works like a charm.

GoodOlBoy

[GoodOlBoy]

158 grain rnfp lead, just like I use in my 38 special loads with a little less umph behind them. Works like a charm. Then again I am a fledgling member of the OFC myself. I have found little fancy dancyness that works as well as good old hard cast lead.

That being said a good 180 grain lead bullet might be good medicine, but I have yet to try 'em as what I use works, and why mess with what works? If I need more power than that then i break out the 45 longcolt 250grain RNFP lead.....

GoodOlBoy

[buckhunter]

I generally us a good 125 gr jhp for my hunting. Then again we are not allowed to deer hunt with a handcannon. I use it on yotes and the 125 does just fine. It will also do just fine on some unwanted quest in the middle of the night. Thankfully I have not had to check out the expansion of one of those yet.

Iam going to migrate to the 158 shortly. Don't know why just am.

[Rapier]

As you have found out the 357 with heavy bullets is a or can be a hard nut to crack. I would like to know what powder and powder weight you are using and what specific bullet you are using. Also, are you shooting a snake?

One of the problems you have with the 180gr bullets is that some have a very tough jacket while others are designed to expand at reasonable velocity. The trick can be even with the bullets that do expand to get your load up to the needed velocity and the 6 inch barrel is a disadvantage in that regard. If your 357 does not sound like a rifle when fired, you are not even close to fast enough yet.

I am a old silhouette shooter who ran 357 Mag and the 357 Super Mags for about 20 odd years in competition. So I am pretty sure I can get something to work for you.
Ed

[PJgunner]

Well, I only shoot cast bullets in my handguns, usually with a 150 (Lyman #358477)or 158 gr. bullet (Lyman #358156 gas check). Either one gets 14.0 gr. of Alliant #2400 and I don't look back. I did make some comment on using s 200 gr. cast bullet in the .357 Mag. and tou can find them on "The 200 gr. bullet in the .38 Spl." thread.
Just a couple of comments on #358156. Using a Smith & Wesson (no number) 38/44 outdoorsman revolver which is the .38 Spl. on a 44 frame, I took a 250 pound Black Bear with the appropriately loaded .38 Spl. rounf and that bullet. I used that same bullet to stop a wild feral hog's charge in a .4" .357 Magnum with a stiff load of #2400. (Hercules version) Both animals took two shots, although probably the first shot would have done the trick. In both sets of shot, which were fairly up close and personal, shots were fired double action.
Sadly, both guns are long gone but I've found a replacement for the Outdoorsmad and I will never part with that one. I've also replaced the .357 mag. but this one has a 6" barrel. I'm still looking for one with a 4" barrel that isn't all beat to hell and gone.
Paul B.

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

I load for several .357 pistols and my heaviest bullet is the 168 grain SWC Keith #358429. I like the #358477 SWC and #358495 WC. For 180 or 200 grain bullets, I go to the .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum.

I have seen 180 and 200 grain bullets in .38 caliber guns /loads and it seem to be a bit much, in my opinion. I have not taken a deer with the 358429 because the .270 did the job earlier on, although I had my 3-inch M65 on my belt in case of need.

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I would like to know what powder and powder weight you are using and what specific bullet you are using. Also, are you shooting a snake?

Rapier;
The bullet is Hornady's XTP bullet; the powders were Hodgdon H110, IMR4227, and Blue dot. I don't have the exact charges in front of me, but they were approximately one grain below max from the data that I used. I did try 2400....the accuracy was unacceptable. The bullets were test fired into wet surgical sponges packed in plastic jugs; they penetrated well, but the bullets look almost pristine except for the rifling and some damage to the nose from where they ran into other bullets.

The gun isn't a "snake", but a Trooper Mk III made in the early 1980's, 6" barrel.

[Rapier]

You have the correct powder on one side, H-110. It is of course the same as 296 and is capable in the 357 of excellent velocity and excellent accuracy. But, it only shoots in two places, at its lowest and highest loading and it loves to be compressed into a solid mass, not just a little compresssion.

The XTP is, with a long barrel and a fast load, capable of getting some expansion. However time and time again on the net you will find refrence to no expansion. Due to its accuracy and tendancy to hold together the XTP is a favorite silhouette bullet.

Try this, change to the Rem RN 200gr jacketed bullet. It was designed for use in guns like the 35 remington and will expand at pistol velocities if you push it. The Trooper is a light handgun compared to others, like the Blackhawk, Dan Wesson, or Freedom Arms. It is similar to the snake but I do not believe it is as tough. The snake is a lot tougher than many would imagine. My chicken, pig and Turkey load in my snake is 12gr of H-110 which developed 1,160 fps out of an 8 inch barrel and the OAL is 1.583 or just under your cylinder length, with a hard crimp over the ogive. Oh, yes, use 205m rifle primers and brass/brass cases. A nickel case probably will not fit in the chambers due to the bulge from the bullet's base. My ram load is quite a bit more powerful and is what I use to hunt with in my Marlin 94C and my revolvers.
Ed

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Try this, change to the Rem RN 200gr jacketed bullet. It was designed for use in guns like the 35 remington and will expand at pistol velocities if you push it.

Thanks for the information, Rapier......but how do you get the .35 Remington bullet to sit low enough to allow cylinder rotation and still crimp effectively? Do you use a taper crimp die?
After all has been said, I'm thinking I might just go back and experiment with some 140 & 158 grain JHP & JSP bullets. I shot a ram with Speer's 146 grain SWCJHP bullet (no long made), and he took about 4 steps and folded....bullet passed through, and there was no tracking job needed. I'm thinking that that load would work on an average size whitetail as well.
Thanks to all for your input.

[Rapier]

A picture is worth a thousand words, so... Here is a picture of the 357 rounds I use in my Marlin 94C, that will also fit in some revolver cylinders. The crimp is over the ojive, however, I have long, over 20 years now, used a "Profile" crimp on my pistol cartridges that have a straight wall case. It reduces the need for a precise case length to achieve accuracy. If the OAL shown is too long, adjust the OAL to fit your cylinder allowing for any compression rebound. This is an advanced reloaders project and process.

The Profile crimp dies are a combination taper crimp and roll crimp and can be purchsed as a seperate die.

That little 38 Spl case deliveres 1,700 fps with that 180 Hornady in the 94 C. The same loading process can be done with the 357 case cut down to 38 spl length, but is unnecessary, unless you get into a spire point reload. These photos go with an artice I wrote about the 357 Carbines and loading for them, a few years back.
Ed