carbide sizing dies question

[GoodOlBoy]

I am considering adding carbide sizing dies to my reloading gear so that I can re-size using my press. I use lee classic loaders (IE I use a mallet to load with not a press). Anyway I still intend to load with my lee classic loaders, but adding a carbide sizing die will eliminate about 85% of the hammering I have to do. My question is do I need lube when sizing using carbide sizing dies in a press? I have been told both yes and no, and would like to know what my fellow HCers have experienced.

GoodOlBoy

[buckhunter]

On straight wall cases the advantage of a carbide die is you do not have to lube the case. Make loading straight wall cases quicker and less messy. And in the progressive loaders it is necessary to have clean cases after resizing. I will never load any 38/357/44 with anything but a carbide. BTW I gave up the hammer and die years ago when I missed and hit my hand.

[Adam Helmer]

GOB,

buckhunter nailed it!

No, you do not need to lube cases you run through a carbide sizing die. I do wipe the dirt and grit off my .38, .357, .44 and .45 cases before they go into the carbide resizer.

One Adviso: DO NOT set the carbide resizer die TIGHT to the shell holder unless you want to crack and destroy the carbide ring at the base of the resizing die. Back off the carbide resizer a half turn from the shell holder.

If you buy a carbide resizer die, why not go the REST of the WAY and get a set of dies for reloading and save that hammer for cracking walnuts??? I dropped my hammer and Lee hammer dies in 1965. LOL!

Adam

[Jack]

Both Buckhunter and Adam have it right.
Personally, lubing pistol cases is an enormous PIA - I'll go for carbide dies every time.
You'll only find carbide dies for straight wall cases, as you probably already know.

[skeet]

Well..I guess I am a contrarian.. I also have carbide dies.. In all the pistol/handgun calibers ..but I still lightly lube the cases.. Not necessary but it do make it easier. I use the spray on water soluble type. and lightly at that.. I also lube the 223 cases with my carbide dies. I'm running them through a Dillon Super 1050. I use the Carbide die to size all the cases(with a separate machine head) and then clean them and run 'em through a Giraud case trimmer before loading them. They look like new when done. Both of those machines(the 1050 and the giraud trimmer)are great tools.

[GoodOlBoy]

Believe it or not I find my lee classic loaders relaxing when not doing the resizing stage. I like them maybe a little too much. I loaded 50 rounds of 38s with a rem sp primer, trail boss, and 158gr laser cast rnfp lead. Took about Half an hour. If you take out the resizing it took around 10 minutes to load them all, and every time I load this way I get nice low recoil rounds that are dead on accurate. Oh and for a powder measure I use a cut down 38 hull with a brass wire handle soldered on.... I use it only for trail boss since I load it by volume not weight. Works like a champ. Someday I might use a press for more than just sizing again, but for now I think I will acquire myself a carbide 38/357 sizing die.

Thanks guys

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

Well I've used those things. In my opinion..therapeutic they are not. I have used the Lyman tools too. They also are not therapeutic..but would rather use one of the nutcrackers than a Lee any day. I do find reloading on the progressives to ease my mind a bit..and when I get done..I do have a bunch. I do find the shooting of those rounds to be VERY therapeutic LOL

[dovehunter]

Speaking of to lube or not to lube, we just got a Redding neck sizer die for my son's .22-250. I thought one of the benefits of the neck sizer would be not having to lube the cases. Surprisingly, when I opened up the box and read the instructions, they repeatedly said you must still lube not only the case neck but the body as well because they "build such close tolerances into the dies". I went ahead and did this wondering if it was guilding the lily. What do you guys think?

:confused:

[Larryjk]

dovehunter, Whenever I am loading bottleneck cases I use case lube. I run all of the cases I load through a tunbler type case cleaner before I size them. Then the bottleneck cases get just a little "Imperial Sizing Die Wax" rubbed on them. It makes such a difference in sizing pressure you may think you are sizing an undersized case.
However, I will always use the manufacturers recommendations. They generally have a good reason. (I always run a case neck brush with sizing die wax rubbed on it through the neck before running a case in the sizing die). My methods may take more time, but I want my ammo to be as exacting as nesessary.

[Jack]

Dovehunter, are you using a standard neck die, or the precision neck sizer with interchangeable bushings?
I agree with Larry's procedure, and that's what I do with a standard neck sizer die.
With the fancy neck die with interchangeable bushings, you can get the bushings in titanium nitride, and you don't need lube with those.
With most neck dies that have a decapping pin and expander button, even if you didn't have to lube the outside of the neck, you ought to lube the inside to ease the passage of the expander button.

[dovehunter]

Dovehunter, are you using a standard neck die, or the precision neck sizer with interchangeable bushings?...

It is the standard neck sizer, not the one that uses the bushings. I think Larryjk was probably right in saying that one should follow the manufacturer's recommendations regardless. It really wasn't that much of an effort to do so. I also lubed the inside of each case neck.

[GoodOlBoy]

I find that sometimes I spend a few minutes staring at rounds that are particularly well put together when using the lee classic loaders. I like the simplicity of it, and there is somethin very satisfying almost hypnotic about a newly finished round.... Maybe its just me...

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

I find that sometimes I spend a few minutes staring at rounds that are particularly well put together when using the lee classic loaders. I like the simplicity of it, and there is somethin very satisfying almost hypnotic about a newly finished round.... Maybe its just me...

GoodOlBoy

Ummm GOB..back away from the table and calm down..it will be ok..really it will.. Those things are just too much of a pain to use..The Lyman tong tools are ok..but not a whole lot better than the Lee tools.

Doing a gun show this weekend and for some odd reason..well except the price..I got an as new 1970 Rockchucker press with the primer feed and some other stuff for 50 bucks.. They are even a bit slow for pistol rounds..but easier. And for a reason we all should know... bought a Star Universal machine. Now i gotta figure out what I'm gonna do with it. I also got a Star Luber Sizer...but I do know what I'm gonna do with it.

GOB we gotta get you to a reloading counselor...LOL SOON

[PJgunner]

"Ummm GOB..back away from the table and calm down..it will be ok..really it will.. Those things are just too much of a pain to use..The Lyman tong tools are ok..but not a whole lot better than the Lee tools."

Whoa there! Don't be badmouthing my beoved tong tools. :eek::p:rolleyes:
I'll agree the Lee's are a total PITA but I have 310 tools and dies for almost half the cartridges I load for. No, I don't use them all but I do collect the things. For theraputic use, I cast lead 30 caliber bullet from a very old Ideal mold, thepredecessor to the Lyman #311291. The bullet mold came with the 1911 M94 30-30 carbine I inherited that belonged to my Great-grandather. I even cast the bullets with a pot and dipper and pan lube and size with the sizer die made for the 310 tool. It's kind of a time machine in a way taking me back to a time when life was less hectic and the pace a hell of a lot slower. The only concession to modernity is I still use the Uniflow powder measure to throw the charges. I just can't get proper uniformity with a dipper. Ammo made with the 310 for the 30-30 is very accurate and does quite a number on deer.
My other use for the 310 tong tool is when I make up my .308 Win. match grade ammo. :eek: I get more accurate cast bullet loads that I shoot in out local burrito match than I do with the expensive RCBS competition dies. Go figure. A burrito match fwiw is just a group of us who get together and shoot a ten round match, offhand, metallic sights at 50 yards with cast bullets. Low man buys the burritos at one of out local mexican food places. I've been lucky as long as I use my Winchester M54 30-30 with peep sight or the pre-64 M70 .308 that I stupidly sold that also had a peep sight I never had to by burrito one. :D:cool: Sometimes we shoot 4 or 5 matches and low man's aggregate buys. :)
The sad part is most of the shooters have moved out of town and the ones left have moved on. Sure would like to get that going again.
Paul B.

[PJgunner]

Speaking of to lube or not to lube, we just got a Redding neck sizer die for my son's .22-250. I thought one of the benefits of the neck sizer would be not having to lube the cases. Surprisingly, when I opened up the box and read the instructions, they repeatedly said you must still lube not only the case neck but the body as well because they "build such close tolerances into the dies". I went ahead and did this wondering if it was guilding the lily. What do you guys think?

:confused:

That's right. Redding neck sizing dies are made to tighter spcs that other brands. There's a good reason for this. Most neck sizers (not collet type) can and will bend the neck a bit out of plumb when the expander button gets dragged through the neck. I have a couple for some of the rounds I load and I remove the decapper/expander stem and set it aside. I use Lyman "M" dies normally used for cast bullets to properly expand the necks to take the bullets. It works for me and does seem to improver accuracy.
Paul B.

[Jack]

I agree that the expander ball is a significant factor. Not only can it pull the neck out of concentricity, it can also pull the shoulder forward.
Proper lubing of the inside of the case neck can prevent both.
IME, the benchrest type die that Redding makes with the interchangeable bushings will produce more concentric ammo.
A standard die, (either neck or FL) squeezes the neck more than needed, then opens it up again with the expander ball.
With the bench type die, you use the bushing you need to resize the neck only as much as you need to grip the bullet.
The benchrest type die is expensive- and probably more than you need for a hunting rifle. However, if you have a varmint/target rifle that's capable of very small groups, the bushing type die can help.

[skeet]

PJ...I just meant the Tong tools are almost as much work as the Lee Loaders. I think they make better. more consistent,ammo.. I also have quite a few...but think That will change soon. I just have too much stuff. Am going to keep some ...but not all of them. I also have some of the bullet sizing dies.. The Star sizer works sooo much better. In fact I am reducing my flock of bullet moulds too. Must have 30 or so. Just gonna keep 2 in each caliber and get rid of some of the rifle moulds entirely. I even got a passel more yesterday at the gun show..Duh..