The Latest on Gunrunner the DOJ & ATF

[Rapier]

I really do not care who stirrs this stinking pot, it just needs a good stick put to it about every other day.

This is an article about where we are now:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/DarrellIssa-CharlesGrassley-ProjectGunrunner-OperationFastandFurious/2011/06/15/id/400174?s=al&promo_code=C719-1

I really like the original denials by the DOJ being replayed to them, in quotes.
Ed

[Rapier]

Now we know who gets thrown under the bus. The acting director. Jeez. I hope Isa keeps up the pressure because the ATF Agents already testified that they were "told by senior officials in the DOJ." So the "acting direcor of the ATF is clearly a sacrificial lamb, here. Now they go to the worst of the ATF agents, the Chicago head, the anti of anti gun guys. Just how much more Chicago crap do we have to swallow?


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ATF-director-resign/2011/06/20/id/400665?s=al&promo_code=C789-1


The importance of this is that Hillry and Chuckie tried to pin this deal on us, the gun owners of America, Gun Shows and "renegade dealers." They are still doing so with the multiple rifle sales ban they are trying to get passed through congress, right now, still they are trying to hang this stinking pot on us.
Ed

[Rapier]

This is getting better and better, now our buds with badges, down south of the border, want us to give the responsible folks to them for trial. I sure would like to make up the list for the bus ride. If you do not hang them or want them mucking up your prison, hell, just keep them for entertainment.

You ever see a Mexican prison? I have, on a trip down south, I paid a cab driver once to take me on a real see it trip, all around Zihuatanejo a port town on the Pacific coast. A Mexican prison is something and not on the regular tour list. That is a real fitting place for a guy like Holder.
Ed

[powell&hyde]

Been following this also.

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/charlesgrassley-atfsting-fastandfurious-departmentofjustice/2011/07/04/id/402434

[Larryjk]

The news today is that the acting director of BATFE met with Isso and Grasley on the 4th and told them DOJ has been throwing up roadblocks. Maybe he won't go under the bus without telling what he knows. What is the difference between a ball player (Clemens) or the Attorney General lying to congress? The AG will never have to pay the bill.

[Adam Helmer]

Rapier,

This whole "Project Gun Runner" thing reminds me of Nixon when he "stonewalled" by saying, "I did not know this at that point in time."

As a retired federal agent, I can assure you NO Field Agent dreamed up this "Gun Runner" project and ran with it WITHOUT approval from the HIGHEST Level. Nuff said.

I think the AG, the Head of BATFE and perhaps even the President signed off on this DUMB Gun Runner BS.

Adam

[Rapier]

The bad here is such a long, long string and so serious I truly hope we start seeing folks not being fired, but folks being charged with crimes and tried for crimes which by the way are felonies and going to jail.

When the officials in charge of federal law enforcement in this country start breaking the law to enforce the law, no one is safe, not you, not me, no one. It becomes a matter of who they want next. History is full of moments like this, when the people find out their officials are killing innocent people to "protect" them. What happens to us, depends on what we do next and if we do nothing, we will be next.
Ed

[Rapier]

Now we have this story this morning:

"Issa and Grassley have urged Holder to cooperate and turn over subpoenaed records that would reveal the scope of the government coverup.

The alleged coverup involves three law enforcement agencies: the ATF, FBI and the DEA, or Drug Enforcement Administration.

According to sources, unbeknown to the ATF, the target of their operation was a FBI confidential informant, a fact that only became known to them in April of this year after an 18-month investigation that cost millions of dollars of tax dollars.

"They were going after someone they could never have," a source in Washington told Fox News. "The Mr. Big they wanted was using government money to buy guns that went to the cartels. The FBI knew it and didn't tell them."

The confidential informant is a former high-level drug dealer who had been deported by the DEA. The FBI, however, recruited him as a counter-terrorism informant, providing information on potential dirty bombs or Al Qaeda suspects moving through the border region.

The FBI informant was picked up on a DEA wiretap, and forwarded to the ATF.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/06/justice-department-obstructing-fast-and-furious-gun-probe-atf-director-says/#ixzz1RQNhtrS6"


I wonder if one person in the hearing asked the Director of the FBI if he had any knowledge about this, before they voted to extend his term in office?



"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!"
Sir Walter Scott

[popplecop]

I'm a retired state law enforcement officer and have been aware of the problem with federal LE not working with each other for 40 yrs. at least. Here in a lot of counties in the state there is a monthly meeting for LE representives of all enforcement agencies to exchange data on a need to know basis. Cooperation with both the public and other LE agencies is the only way it works. Now there are some investigations that can not be shared for various reasons, but a lot can be.

[grayghost]

Rat Bastids!

[powell&hyde]

Operation Gunrunner allocated federal taxpayer funding of weaponry that led to the deaths of two American agents.
***8220;We the People***8221; paid for that.
And with President Obama and Eric Holder***8217;s willing consent.
Thousands of guns were ***8216;littered***8217; into Mexico through Arizona gun shops with the federal governments belief that the weapons would be ***8216;traceable***8217;?
This one has ***8216;ivy league education***8217; written all over it.
The scandal is so huge that it involves the A.T.F., D.O.J., Homeland Security Dept, F.B.I., D.E.A and The White House.
The acting chief of the A.T.F. is singing like a canary.
Holder should, but won***8217;t, be the bait.
He knows way too much. That is why he is still AG.
But pay close attention here because Watergate was a harmless-prank compared to the supreme incompetency of this administration and its complicity in Operation Gunrunner.
This is the ***8216;tipping scale***8217;.

[Rapier]

As of Friday:
We now have reports from ATF agents that there is yet another operation out of Tampa where the ATF sold 1,000 guns to the MS-13 cartel in Honduras.

That a budget was put together for operation Gun Runner, by name, which brought in 10 million dollars, then the following year an expanded budget was put forward for Gun Runner by name and an additional 37 million dollars was given to the ATF all from stimilus money. That is 47 million dollars in budget spending for an operation by the name of Gun Runner and Holder says he knew nothing about it.

Yesterday Issa in an interview was asked directly if there was a political agenda in this operation involving gun control. Issa responded in effect that President Bush insisted on strict gun control enforcement of any potential sales going to Mexico and since OBama has taken office there has been virtually no control of gun sales involving guns going to Mexico.

The wheel goes round and round. Go back to sleep America, this is just an investigation gone wrong.

[Rapier]

Houston, We have a problem !!!!

Holder reportedly made a speech to Mexican officials in 2009 about Gunrunner, by name. That speech is on the DOJ website.

"Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail."

Now, go here and watch the 2009 tape of the Deputy Attorney General of the US describe Gunrunner and those involved notice how close the details match the Holder reported speech:

http://americaswatchtower.com/2011/07/10/gunrunner-video-proof-that-eric-holder-knew-about-gunrunner-in-2009/

If this is all true, I think it is safe to say that Eric Holder has committed Perjury and it can be proven. But now Obama may get drug into it.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Sounds like we might have a corrupt government.

[Rapier]

"When the Operation Fast and Furious indictment was announced back in January, it was depicted as a big bust. Twenty suspects were charged with numerous counts of conspiracy, money laundering, gun running and drug trafficking. The defendants faced 5 to 20 years on a single count.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives(ATF) along with the U.S. Attorney’s office in Phoenix claimed to have dismantled a major weapons trafficking organization from top to bottom- from the end user of the weapons in Mexico to the money men, those who smuggled and transported the weapons from the U.S. into Mexico, and the buyers on our side of the border.

Yet after thousands of man hours and millions of dollars spent, only one of the 20 suspects remains behind bars. Most were released within 24 hours of their arrest. In the end, all prosecutors got was one middle man and a handful of straw buyers." Fox News

It is amazing to me that Castaway in Tampa is almost identical to F & F in that one fellow was charged and a thousand guns walked and people are dead. Yet the Feds say the two operations are not connected. Hum, sounds like a husband caught cheating to me; "are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"

There is a reported email from a Deputy Director of the ATF instructing agents to pursue gathering evidence from these operations in order to bolster a need for gun control legislation on gun sales. Now you have, for a fact, the DOJ issuing new rules on sales within the border states.

It appears more and more that this operation (s) was not intended to catch anyone it may in fact have been intended to create a “need” in the public eye for stiffer controls on gun sales and Obama while appearing to do nothing about helping his anti gun zealot buddies was in fact trying to destroy the second amendment “below the radar.” We shall see where the bread crumbs lead.

Now if you accept the anti gun legislation theory, then you get to something much more sinister, and something that is very difficult for me to accept, that anyone in US political office would be so cynical as to kill hundreds of innocent people to make pure political gain from their deaths. Think about that for a minute. That would be a very evil person, not deserving of any office, elected or appointed.

[Critch]

The Inspector General for the DOJ is stepping into this, maybe something will start moving. Has anyone noticed that only Fox and the bloggers are carrying this? I think ABC had a small blurb, but you aren't seeing Joe Scarborough or any of the big morning shows hitting it.

[powell&hyde]

CNN carried it when it first started then dropped off their radar. One small write up in USA today months ago, then poof, gone. Just like that Marine that was killed in Arizona few months back from a swat team breaking into the home. No national paper even mentioned it.

[Rapier]

It can not get any worse, right? Wrong!

Now we have convicted felons buying guns and walking After The Background Check Picked Them Up! 300 guns walked, on camera.

Finally we see the word criminal used in a description of the ATF and FBI activity because knowingly selling a firearm to a felon is a crime. Thus, knowingly allowing such a sale is a crime.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/25/feds-refuse-to-explain-why-proper-background-checks-werent-conducted-on-fast/

[8X56MS]

Until we change the current administration, nothing will be done. Justice is NOT going to investigate itself, and hussein won't allow anything to happen.

[Rapier]

What Issa is doing if forcing the ATF, FBI and the DOJ folks to paint themselves into a corner. Once he gets one person to lie to the committee, Issa has him by the neck and no one can save him then. Issa caught the chief agent for the ATF yesterday in repeated lies. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not their own facts." that is what Issa, angrily told the man to his face.

You saw what happened in the Anthony case for lying to the police, a 4x felon. You lie to congress and you can get many, many years. You tell the committee you did it, you are toast, tell them you did not do it, a lie, and you are really toast. Like a cat playing with a mouse, Issa has hundreds of mice to play with and years to play with them. with just a little patience Issa is going to blow this deal up all over Holder.

[Rapier]

Today we get news that 11 of the guns were used to commit crimes in the US and were recovered at crime scenes. Today also, we are told that submitted documents paint an entirely different picture than the story the DOJ has been telling about what was going on. So I would think when the House reconvenes sparks will fly. DOJ has said they do not know anything about the crimes and the guns, but all the crimes and guns were reported to the FBI by regulations, by codes, and all are on record by serial number. Click - one more notch up on the burner.
Ed

[Rapier]

Now we start where we left off, to go on vacation:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/demand-for-more-answers-in-fast-and-furious-scandal/

It appears, by surrendered document, a US Attorney and the ATF conspired to hide the connection of the guns found at the Border Patrol Agent's murder scene to operation Fast and Furious.

Sure does look like a case of "obstruction of justice" is now coming around on the merry-go -round. No wonder the DOJ does not want the family allowed into the court case. As you look at this pile of crap you start to wonder if there is a law that was not broken here, not how many laws were broken.
Ed

[Rapier]

### "I have never seen anything like this. I can see the FBI may have an informant involved but I can't see them tampering with evidence. If this is all accurate, I'm stunned," the former prosecutor said. ###


A third gun linked to "Operation Fast and Furious" was found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, new documents obtained exclusively by Fox News suggest, contradicting earlier assertions by federal agencies that police found only two weapons tied to the federal government's now infamous gun interdiction scandal.

Sources say emails support their contention that the FBI concealed evidence to protect a confidential informant. Sources close to the Terry case say the FBI informant works inside a major Mexican cartel and provided the money to obtain the weapons used to kill Terry.

Unlike the two AK-style assault weapons found at the scene, the third weapon could more easily be linked to the informant. To prevent that from happening, sources say, the third gun "disappeared."

In addition to the emails obtained by Fox News, an audio recording from a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent investigating the Terry case seems to confirm the existence of a third weapon. In that conversation, the agent refers to an "SKS assault rifle out of Texas" found at the Terry murder scene south of Tucson.

The FBI refused to answer a detailed set of questions submitted to officials by Fox News. Instead, agency spokesman Paul Bresson said, "The Brian Terry investigation is still ongoing so I cannot comment." Bresson referred Fox News to court records that only identify the two possible murder weapons.
However, in the hours after Terry was killed on Dec. 14, 2010, several emails written to top ATF officials suggest otherwise.

In one, an intelligence analyst writes that by 7:45 p.m. -- about 21 hours after the shooting -- she had successfully traced two weapons at the scene, and is now "researching the trace status of firearms recovered earlier today by the FBI."

In another email, deputy ATF-Phoenix director George Gillett asks: "Are those two (AK-47s) in addition to the gun already recovered this morning?"

The two AK-type assault rifles were purchased by Jaime Avila from the Lone Wolf Trading Co. outside of Phoenix on Jan. 16, 2010. Avila was recruited by his roommate Uriel Patino. Patino, according to sources, received $70,000 in "seed money" from the FBI informant late in 2009 to buy guns for the cartel.
According to a memo from Assistant U.S. Attorney Emory Hurley, who oversaw the operation, Avila began purchasing firearms in November 2009, shortly after Patino, who ultimately purchased more than 600 guns and became the largest buyer of guns in Operation Fast and Furious.

Months ago, congressional investigators developed information that both the FBI and DEA not only knew about the failed gun operation, but that they may be complicit in it. House Government Reform and Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, fired off letters in July requesting specific details from FBI director Robert Mueller and Drug Enforcement Administration chief Michele Leonhart.

"In recent weeks, we have learned of the possible involvement of paid FBI informants in Operation Fast and Furious," Issa and Grassley wrote to Mueller. "Specifically, at least one individual who is allegedly an FBI informant might have been in communication with, and was perhaps even conspiring with, at least one suspect whom ATF was monitoring."

Sources say the FBI is using the informants in a national security investigation. The men were allegedly debriefed by the FBI at a safe house in New Mexico last year.

Sources say the informants previously worked for the DEA and U.S. Marshall's Office but their contracts were terminated because the men were "stone-cold killers." The FBI however stopped their scheduled deportation because their high ranks within the cartel were useful.

In their July letter, Issa and Grassley asked Mueller if any of those informants were ever deported by the DEA or any other law enforcement entity and how they were repatriated.

Asked about the content of the emails, a former federal prosecutor who viewed them expressed shock.

"I have never seen anything like this. I can see the FBI may have an informant involved but I can't see them tampering with evidence. If this is all accurate, I'm stunned," the former prosecutor said.

“This information confirms what our sources were saying all along -- that the FBI was covering up the true circumstances of the murder of Brian Terry," added Mike Vanderboegh, an authority on the Fast and Furious investigation who runs a whistleblower website called Sipsey Street.

"It also confirms that the FBI was at least as culpable, and perhaps more culpable, than the ATF in the (Fast and Furious) scandal, and that there was some guiding hand above both these agencies (and the other agencies involved) coordinating the larger operation," Vanderboegh said.

[Rapier]

This is interesting in the number of folks involved with the Lone Wolf gun store and the officials that assured the owner and even his attorney that all was well. This dealer started taping his conversations with the ATF. Then the ATF tried to throw him under the bus by ID-ing him as a rogue dealer to the Washington Post. This is slimy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/21/audio-tapes-reveal-more-details-in-fast-and-furious-gunrunner-scandal/

[Rapier]

Oh, wow. Now it turns out the DOJ / OIG released the tapes referenced above to the very people under investigation, without notice to or approval of Issa or Grassley.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"It appears that you did not consider the significant harm that providing these recordings to the very individuals under investigation could cause to either our inquiry or your own. You did not consult with us about the recordings even though the congressional inquiry and reactions to it are discussed at length."

The OIG argues that under discovery rules it is required to turn the tapes over to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

The tapes Issa and Grassley refer to were recorded by Andre Howard, owner of the Lone Wolf Trading Co., after he suspected the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was lying to him about the guns they recruited him to sell to buyers of the Sinaloa Cartel.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously, during an investigation, you do not give a suspect evidence, evidence they are not aware of, until after they might incriminate themselves under questioning, unless you are trying to short circuit the investigation. So if you had hope that the OIG was going to help, I think you just got your answer in spades.
Ed

[skeet]

Looks like the whole bunch of 'em are crooks working for the administration to put a black eye on gun ownership..Anything to do away with the 2nd amendment..just like the anti's planting wolves..right in the best hunting in the US... Of course if we don't have hunting we must not NEED guns. Let's put Holder and his boss on trial.. They both knew and you know..this stuff always comes from the top.. under wraps of course. Adobe wall time!!

[Rapier]

Perhaps we are getting closer to the testimony and documents to get this nailed down:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/28/gunrunning-informant-used-taxpayer-money-to-buy-drugs-possibly-guns-lawmakers/?test=latestnews

Turns out a DOJ informant was being protected by the DOJ with the knowledge of the Assistant Attorney General and other high ranking officials in the DOJ. The informant was buying guns and drugs with DOJ money given to him by the DOJ. All the time the ATF spent years looking for this guy. Supposedly this is why the ATF was walking guns, trying to find the "Bad Guy" who was all the time, in fact, the DOJ informant or better yet, the DOJ employee. But the ATF was walking guns for the DOJ!!

I think I see the light, why no one was prosecuted, the large scale gun smuggling started with the DOJ. It looks like it never was an investigation of gun smuggling that was going on, that is a red herring, the DOJ started the gun smuggling as a key, trying to get inside the cartels through the door. I think the DOJ created the entire operation from top to bottom, crimes to investigate, investigation, etc. All leading no where. That then explains why there was no trace, there was never supposed to be a trace, only guns walking across the border. The focus was always getting into the cartels, not tracing or stopping guns. The head supplier of guns to the Cartels and a drug dealer to boot, is the DOJ.

The side benefit was giving dealers and gun owners in the US a black eye by diverting the blame for "illegal gun trafficking" to gun shows and the gun culture, etc. Every Anti in the US was eager to buy into this deal, it was just too sweet to pass up. It is why no one wants to report this, except Fox, they are all caught with their collective pants down around their knees.

Hopefully we are about to go past the DEA, FBI, ICE and ATF right to the center of control of this operation from the very start, the DOJ and Holder.
Ed

[skeet]

And how about the guy that gave 'em their marching orders..El Presidente Nobama

[Rapier]

Skeet,
It would be great to tie O'BS and Holder into a neat package, but unless I miss my bet on this, O'BS is too smart to be directly involved where he can be nailed down. I bet there is a go between, who is about as close as you will ever see this get to him. But one can still hope......
Ed

[skeet]

Ed...I believe you are correct..but as for Nobama..I don't think he is too smart..I think he's just slick.. If he was smart he wouldn't be trotting out the same failed stimulous BS to fix the economy that didn't work before..Slick because he knows if he cam get it to fly he will break the economy of this country even more than he has already..which I think is his communistic intient from the beginning.. The commie crats still don't understand that you can't tax and spend yourself out of a depression.. Taking from the rich(successful) and giving to the ones who choose not to work only makes things even worse. This gun thing is terrible..but break one of the Amendments to the Constitution and the whole document would be under attack so they could destroy the basic tenets of this country

[jplonghunter]

Do I hear the words " Plausible Deniability " entering this conversation?

[Rapier]

Now we have three written documents that tie Holder to F&F back to July 2010. We also have a boot lick trying to cover Holder by saying he did not read his messages. Yeah, right.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/03/documents-suggest-holder-knew-about-fast-and-furious-earlier-than-claimed/

This had to come because of Holder's speech given in Mexico about Gunrunner prior to its name being changed to F & F. Somewhere there is written proof he knew about this in 2009, not 2010. Issa now has written backup to a lie by Holder, it is on the fire, all he needs to do is start roasting the participants. Remember, while this is frustratingly drawn out, Issa must have proof to nail the head LEO of the land.

If you look at the page above, look over to the right at the article by D***8217;Souza and his new book on O'BS. It directly speaks to the heart of the matter regards the objective and intent of O'BS. He is, according to D***8217;Souza, following his father's teachings, to destroy this country's system of government and its economy from within the government itself. Thus, there is no mistake about his economic policy, it is a direct frontal assault, not a mistake at all. This is a follower of Carl Marx, make no mistake about it, all he needs is Mao***8217;s little red book by his bedside. 60 years ago he would have made a dandy Fidel Castro.

Plausible deniability, undoubtedly, but only to a point, like right now, after people get dead. However, the deal is that these folks were brazen to start with and they were right out in the open. As long as we think about this as decent people err now and again, we will never see this for what it is. That is where the honest ATF agents made a big mistake and were naive, they thought this was an error also.

Here is the clincher and just think about this, it is so simple, go back to the beginning:

We can not turn over the papers requested because we are investigating this matter.

Paraphrased but basically what the DOJ said to Issa. Now fast forward to today and you have that lie all laid out as a cover-up.

[Rapier]

Reuters
EXCLUSIVE: House Republicans are going to call for a special counsel to determine whether Attorney General Eric Holder perjured himself during his testimony to the House Judiciary Committee on Operation Fast and Furious, Fox News has learned.


11:45 AM CT 10-4-11 -- All right Mr Issa!!!

[Rapier]

Well if you have been following the F&F debacle you know that O'BS has confidence in Holder and blew off the Special Council. Then Issa hit Holder with a new Subpena which included about a dozen folks from the DOJ and the White House. First, the five memos showed up but after the Subpena some new memos have been produced and we are again waiting for memos and messages. Issa is after the connection between DOJ and the WH.

The Iranian plot just got thrown into the mix, because they had to release the info due to court appearances. What no one has said was there would be no court appearances if the 7 month investigation did not have arrests right at this moment. No doubt the uneducated are impressed.

Then Holder and the gang tried to blame Bush one more time saying he had a program just like F&F. This was an outright, and outrageous lie. The Bush program included electronic trace equipment in the guns and the inclusion of and the full cooperation of Mexican Authorities. Plus the minute some of the trace equipment malfunctioned, the Bush program was stopped immediately. Oh, plus a minor difference, no one got dead.

Now it appears that O'BS and the "normal suspects" are up to his/their neck in corruption and scandals involving billions of US dollars. Pelosi's version of "draining the swamp" is to have her brother in-law ears deep in the hog trough, while she has a special low minimum wage rate for Samoa where her fish processing plant is located.

Basically you have a Chicago style politico circle jerk going on in DC.

We can only hope that some focus stays on F&F. Seeing Cain go ahead is a refreshing view. If he gets the call, I hope he has a 5,000 gal tanker full of Clorox to pour over the mess, we the people are in need of a good sanitizing in DC.
Ed

[Rapier]

I know, let's blame it on Bush.

Once again the O'BS clowns in waiting are trying to blame Bush for a crumpled fender in the ongoing wreck of F&F. Now saying that Bush did the deed first and the Bush program was Wide Receiver.

Of course the O'BS minions conveniently forget to mention that the guns had tracking devices, the Mexican Government was fully informed and in cooperation and that when a group of guns got through and were lost, the program was immediately halted. But other than those minor items it was the same......

The new documents gotten by subpena clearly show the Mexican Government was working with the US in the Wide Receiver program. Unlike the O'BS F&F deal where everyone denied the guns existence to the Mexican Government and even to the ATF agents in Mexico City.

We are starting to see, cracks in the plaster, political hacks are starting to acknowledge that F&F is a serious albatross around the neck of O'BS and his reelection campaign.
Ed

[Rapier]

How about an understatement: Holder ain't a Harry Truman!

Yesterday Holder testified before the Senate Committee: He blamed lax gun laws on F&F, he blamed Bush, he blamed the Republicans for blocking stronger gun control, he said no one gave him those damming memos, and then said he can not be blamed for F&F because he can't keep up with every operation, and on and on. He did admit that the letter from him stating that there were no gun walking programs was "inaccurate." Here is another quote:

"I certainly regret what happened to Agent Brian Terry," Holder said. "It is not fair, however, to assume that the mistakes that happened in Fast and Furious directly led to the death of Agent Terry."

Holder also said that he had not apologized to the Terry family and under further questioning admitted he had not even contacted the family at all.

A real boss in a situation where there may be a problem with an underling, contacts the aggrieved party, expresses condolences, and indicates he will look into the situation and get to the bottom of the problem right away, but not Holder. As a business owner what I see here is a person so busy covering up, he can not do the right thing by anyone.

Frankly in my opinion Eric Holder is a Skunk of the first order. Every time I see him open his mouth I want to go puke.
Ed

[skeet]

Man Ed..why don't ya tell us how you really feel!! I must agree the guy is worse than a skunk..and he will not ever accept responsibility for anything..Probably not even for breathing..That had to be bush's fault too

[Rapier]

That is the situation in a nut shell. If a man will stand up and admit he was wrong and go on, it is one thing. However, to deny responsibility when you are in charge, is just beyond being acceptable. Every Federal LEO works for the DOJ in one way or the other, for the boss to find out one of his guys has been killed as the result of a botched program executed by another of his units and not even contact the dead man's family is ____, well you stick in a word here.

I was trained to practice and practice to this day that a real leader takes care of his guys first, always. Holder is just a so perfect example of all that is wrong with DC.
Ed

[skeet]

Well it is hard to accept responsibility for bad things or bad decisions. I've had to accept responsibility for things that happened..even when it wasn't my fault... But I was in charge. The people that screwed up were under my charge. I WAS responsible ultimately..luckily noone got killed..but a couple of my guys got hurt....and I didn't ever want that to happen. Sometimes bad stuff happens..it truly is an accident. But thios stuff they did is not and was not an accident. Have you seen that they are trying to drag Bush into this big time..saying well Bush did it..why couldn't we?? Completely ignoring that the bad things that happened on Bush's watch was the fault of the Mexican gummit not doing their jobs!!

[Rapier]

Yes, I have seen the attempted diversion by the Obama administration to a totally different situation. I have also seen some of the Main Media reporters following that lead like lap dogs. It is fluff for the ignorant and ill-informed. All one need do is read some of the Wide Receiver reports and they are full of direct references to the Mexican's involvement with the Bush program. Then you look at the reports on F&F and you see a demand by the Mexican Govt to know what is going on and wanting some hide for their people being killed by our guns, plus the gun owners being blamed by every politico from Hillary to O'BS to Holder.
Ed

[Rapier]

"That shows what kind of a person he is. To me, he is not much of a person. I don't know if he has a son. But if he lost his, he would think different."
Mr. Kent Terry

"I sat in a chair and cried. It was so inhumane. An apology to anybody means at least they are trying to fix it. He didn't."
Mrs. Josephine Terry

The parents of Brian Terry after watching Eric Holder testify.

[Rapier]

Just a couple of items to add to this very long thread:

To add insult to injury the DOJ has sealed the records of the Terry murder. Apparently the DOJ is attempting to stop the Terry family from getting access to new documents they would need to persue a law suit. This type of arrogance on the part of DOJ makes me ill, the idea that our government thinks it can participate in killing your child and deny your family due process, is astounding.

The DOJ has issued a letter to Congress admitting that their denials of F & F and allowing guns to walk was "inaccurate" after ten months of investigation over the original denials. In DC talk that means we lied.

DOJ has now released over 1,000 documents outlining how they lied to Congress about F & F.

The Democrats in the Senate keep trying to protect the DOJ and the Administration. This protection is obviously why prosecution of the guilty in this deal is not going forward and the DOJ has the audacity to punish the whistle blowers right before the eyes of Congress while promoting the guilty. The message by Holder is clear; I am untouchable and you in the DOJ play ball or get sent to Siberia.

It is going to take replacing the Democratis in the Senate to get justice for the injured and murdered in this episode. We here in FL have a new candidate to run against Bill Nelson, O'BS's drum beater in FL, that person is Connie Mack, from a very old FL and TX family and a currently serving US House member. Perhaps we can get rid of Nelson who has been a supporter of every liberal off the wall agenda that came down the pike.
Ed

[Rapier]

Rotten to the core. Ever heard that saying before?

On Monday the DOJ released 2,000 new documents which clearly show that the Deputy administrators in the DOJ, in DC, lied over and over again about Fast and Furious. That there were hundreds of emails flying back and forth within the DOJ, ATF and FBI about what to do with the letter of inquiry by Grassley and Issa in the first 60 days of this year. So what did our leaders decide to do? They decided to lie. They agreed in memos to say there was no gun walking and then when asked under oath about gun walking, they all said they had not read the memos that were initially turned over or could not recall any one of the memos.

Now Issa has documented proof that Holder's chief deputy, his right hand in DC, forwarded the memos he claimed to have never read, to his (the deputy) personal email account on his personal blackberry and further, the deputy, in writing, congratulated the author of the big lie letter written to Congress on his wording of denying gun walking. They have the documented initial discussions, the agreement on the direction to take, the letter itself, the congratulations on the letter, etc. In other words they have the DOJ Chief Deputy by the nads for perjury and lying to Congress.

They do not have a direct link to Holder yet. But, it is impossible at this point to believe that hundreds of emails flew back and forth in his department about an inquiry from Congress and he knew nothing about any of it.

Holder is to appear tomorrow and answer for the lies of the DOJ to Congress. Seems like we are seeing the little bubbles beginning to form on the bottom of the pot and it is starting to boil.
Ed

[buckhunter]

This is what was publised in the Boston Herald today.

Not much more than we already knew. Holder is running away from this.


WASHINGTON — The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee accuses the Justice Department of giving inconsistent statements about what he calls a reckless and dangerous law enforcement program.
Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas says many questions remain about who authorized the arms-tracking investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is being criticized for failing to track illicitly obtained weapons that were later recovered in Mexico and the U.S., many of them at crime scenes.
Attorney General Eric Holder, the sole witness at Thursday’s hearing, says it was inexcusable for the bureau to use a controversial tactic known as "gun-walking" in its effort to identify and prosecute major arms trafficking networks along the Southwest border.
© Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Rapier]

"The new internal messages reveal that in early January this year, a month before there was any publicity about "Fast & Furious," Department of Justice personnel were pointing out: "this case ["Fast & Furious] could be a strong supporting factor [for new regulations] if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case." "

From email messages sent to Issa by the DOJ on Friday last. Now we get the first direct evidence that the DOJ was actually using F&F to instigate more gun regulation laws and had a direct and deliberate political agenda.

In the Holder testimony yesterday we also heard for the first time, on record, the word Impeachment.
Ed

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/15/obamas-watergate-758295296/

KUHNER: Obama’s Watergate
Officials cover up culpability for gun smuggling and murder


A year ago this week, U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered. He died protecting his country from brutal Mexican gangsters. Two AK-47 assault rifles were found at his death site. We now know the horrifying truth: Agent Terry was killed by weapons that were part of an illegal Obama administration operation to smuggle arms to the dangerous drug cartels. He was a victim of his own government. This is not only a major scandal; it is a high crime that potentially reaches all the way to the White House, implicating senior officials. It is President Obama’s Watergate.

Operation Fast and Furious was run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and overseen by the Justice Department. It started under the leadership of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. Fast and Furious enabled straw gun purchases from licensed dealers in Arizona, in which more than 2,000 weapons were smuggled to Mexican drug kingpins. ATF claims it was seeking to track the weapons as part of a larger crackdown on the growing violence in the Southwest. Instead, ATF effectively has armed murderous gangs. About 300 Mexicans have been killed by Fast and Furious weapons. More than 1,400 guns remain lost. Agent Terry likely will not be the last U.S. casualty.

Mr. Holder insists he was unaware of what took place until after media reports of the scandal appeared in early 2011. This is false. Such a vast operation only could have occurred with the full knowledge and consent of senior administration officials. Massive gun-running and smuggling is not carried out by low-level ATF bureaucrats unless there is authorization from the top. There is a systematic cover-up.

Congressional Republicans, however, are beginning to shed light on the scandal. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Rep. Darrell Issa of California, a congressional probe is exposing the Justice Department’s rampant criminality and deliberate stonewalling. Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer, who heads the department’s criminal division, helped craft a February letter to Congress that denied ATF had ever walked guns into Mexico. Yet, under pressure from congressional investigators, the department later admitted that Mr. Breuer knew about ATF gun-smuggling as far back as April 2010. In other words, Mr. Breuer has been misleading Congress. He should resign - or be fired.

Instead, Mr. Holder tenaciously insists that Mr. Breuer will keep his job. He needs to keep his friends close and potential witnesses even closer. Another example is former acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson. Internal documents show Mr. Melson directly oversaw Fast and Furious, including monitoring numerous straw purchases of AK-47s. He has admitted to congressional investigators that he, along with high-ranking ATF leaders, reassigned every “manager involved in Fast and Furious” after the scandal surfaced on Capitol Hill and in the press. Mr. Melson said he was ordered by senior Justice officials to be silent regarding the reassignments. Hence, ATF managers who possess intimate and damaging information - especially on the role of the Justice Department - essentially have been promoted to cushy bureaucratic jobs. Their silence has been bought, their complicity swept under the rug. Mr. Melson has been transferred to Justice’s main office, where he serves as a “senior adviser” on forensic science in the department’s Office of Legal Policy. Rather than being punished, Mr. Melson has been rewarded for his incompetence and criminal negligence.

Mr. Holder and his aides have given misleading, false and contradictory testimony on Capitol Hill. Perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power - these are high crimes and misdemeanors. Mr. Holder should be impeached. Like most liberals, he is playing the victim card, claiming Mr. Issa is a modern-day Joseph McCarthy conducting a judicial witch hunt. Regardless of this petty smear, Mr. Holder must be held responsible and accountable - not only for the botched operation, but for his flagrant attempts to deflect blame from the administration.

Mr. Holder is a shameless careerist and a ruthless Beltway operative. For years, his out-of-control Justice Department has violated the fundamental principle of our democracy, the rule of law. He has refused to prosecute members of the New Black Panthers for blatant voter intimidation that took place in the 2008 election. Career Justice lawyers have confessed publicly that Mr. Holder will not pursue cases in which the perpetrators are black and the victims white. States such as Arizona and Alabama are being sued for simply attempting to enforce federal immigration laws. Mr. Holder also opposes voter identification cards, thereby enabling fraud and vote-stealing at the ballot box. What else can we expect from one who, during the Clinton administration, helped pardon notorious tax cheat Marc Rich and Puerto Rican terrorists?

Mr. Holder clearly knew about Fast and Furious and did nothing to stop it. This is because the administration wanted to use the excuse of increased violence on the border and weapons-smuggling into Mexico to justify tighter gun-control legislation. Mr. Holder is fighting ferociously to prevent important internal Justice documents from falling into the hands of congressional investigators. If the full nature of his involvement is discovered, the Obama presidency will be in peril.

Fast and Furious is even worse than Watergate for one simple reason: No one died because of President Nixon’s political dirty tricks and abuse of government power. But Brian Terry is dead; and there are still 1,500 missing guns threatening still more lives.

What did Mr. Obama know? Massive gun-smuggling by the U.S. government into a foreign country does not happen without the explicit knowledge and approval of leading administration officials. It’s too big, too risky and too costly. Mr. Holder may not be protecting just himself and his cronies. Is he protecting the president?