A question re: limits?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I've been hunting for about 36 years now or so.....I remember that, for the most part, there have always been 'limits' as to certain species, i.e. rabbits-5/day, pheasants-2 per day, ect.
I was taught that 'limits' were basically where you had to stop....we never went out with the idea of 'killling a limit', but we were pleased and greatful if one came along (I can only remember getting a limit once; I had a great day and bagged 5 ruffed grouse before lunch.....haven't come anywhere close since).
In a similar vein, we never obsessed about 'antlers'......the only reason we were concerned with them (antlers) was to make sure that we were shooting a legal animal (in most areas does were either off limits or doe permits were so scarce that is wasn't even worth wasting the time on an application). We went deer hunting..... if it had antlers, it was expected, and if it had a nice rack, it was just gravy.....nothing more.
Now, some of the things I'm finding in the woods and seeing on the net have me wondering if maybe the idea of 'hunting' has changed (or at least as I have known it). I am finding dead deer carcasses dumped at the parking areas in the state land that I hunt; the heads or antlers are missing, and if any meat is taken AT ALL, it is usually on the back straps.....the hindquarters are left to rot and go to waste. If this was just a one time occurance, I would just write it off as some slob, but I'm finding it with enough frequency that I don't think its a fluke. I've also tried to complain to the DNR, but since deer season is going on, and there is no 'evidence' of any crime (deer season is open), they really don't care to look into the matter.
I have also seen some ridiculously long shots taken on waterfowl.....long shots that probably shouldn't be taken with a Nike missile!!!!!!!! A lot of times those ducks get hit, but they sail off into the marsh or refuge to be unrecovered. I've also found lots of dead hen mallard floating in the flooded cornfield, as well as other species along the edges.....apparently some folks aren't good at duck ID, so they just shoot and identify later....if it's a hen, they just don't bother to pick it up!
Now, the stuff I see on the internet: cyberscouting, people complaining that they didn't get a "limit' each and every time they go out, people trying to impose their 'will' (antler restrictions, or no hens,for example), so they can 'get theirs', but the hell with everyone else, signatures with 'kill totals' for the year (since when did keeping score become so important?), people bragging about making 'long distance' shots on game or fowl (I thought that with 'hunting', the goal was to get the animal as close as possible for a clean kill, not how far away you were able to hit it:mad:). People giving up other peoples hotspots, and not through PMs, either.....broadcast so any jackhole can be there the next morning.
I realize that the world is not static, and that change is inevitable.....I also know that the net is here to stay, and that it can be a good thing as well as bad. But how are people who are neutral towards hunting going to view these posts and these indescretions? How will some bird watcher or mountain biker vote in the next election when the parking area smells like a rotting corpse, or a canoeist who finds a ton of dead birds. Will they see hunting as a 'game' or 'sport', similar to football or video games where animals are 'hurt' for sport, or will they see hunting as a means of camraderee, food procurment, ect.?
I'm just curious: Have some of the members of huntchat here seen similar things, or are mine isolated incidents? FWIW, I must put some blame on the hunting/fishing shows & videos that are out there....they ALWAYS come home with a limit of whatever, or they ALWAYS harvest the biggest buck in the woods. I never knew or cared what a G2 or a 'kicker' was until I started watching some of these shows (now I know, but I still don't care!) When was the last time these shows showed someone harvesting a spike for the table, or shooting less than a limit?
Anyway, just some rambling thoughts from an old man.........:(

[skeet]

Well Mr 16..To be honest I don't see much of the things you are speaking of as far as wanton waste. But yep..the newer hunters out there sure do want a limit. Nothing wrong with getting a limit as long as you use what ya shoot. I will admit to not using seaducks for table fare but the dogs alway liked the meat. I never waste deer. Holy cow with the price of meat..but then again...I am like you..older and hopefully wiser. I care little for big racks. Can't really eat horns. If I ever get a bull moose tag or whatever here in Wy...I'll take the first mature one that I run across. I don't watch any hunting shows but can guarantee you that the average young'un that does expects to do it like those people do.. Sad state of affairs..Been huntin since i was 9 and killed mnay a limit.. but that isn't the reason I hunted..but the meat came in handy when I did do well. People have a different mindset nowdays i guess..and not a better one

[toxic111]

Up here if you left any of a deer to rot, the DNR would be all over you. You cannot waste any of the edible game meat. I don't know much about waterfowl, but I think it is anything goes for sex, you shoot it, you count it to your limit, again, leave it, & you can be charged.

As for long range hunting big game, it is just another form of hunting if you practice it & you the right equipment why not? Long range with waterfowl, that is another matter.

[Larryjk]

toxic111, I have put my head on the chopping block before on this subject, so I will continue to support my belief. The long range "shooting" shows only show the correct hits,-- animal down. I maintain they don't show the shots that are less successful--legs broken-gut shot. I am in a state that aalways seems to have wind-not breezes. 20 mph is nothing. What is the wind holdover on a shot at 830 yards? Is the wind always the same at your shooting location as it is at the animal 700 yds away? There is considerable risk to a wounded animal. Is shooting an animal so damned important that you have to risk that wounding shot and not being able to recover the animal? A fellow I know was in BC and shot a goat at 660 yds. using a "good" rangefinder and-dial-in-the- distance scope. The guide was apparently amazed and another hunter took 10 shots without a hit. I wasn't impressed. Is it just shooting or is there some hunting involved?

[Adam Helmer]

Larryjk,

You expressed my opinion perfectly. I asked a "Long Ranger", who boasted about a 700+ yard shot at a deer, "What happens if the deer takes a step forward while the bullet is enroute?" He advised me, "I never miss."

Adam

[GoodOlBoy]

I grew up as a pot hunter amongst a family of pot hunters. As far as deer? You can't eat antlers, and if it's smaller than yer coon hound you ain't gettin much meat off of it. Small game? We never went after limits. We went after enough to eat. Our goal was making a meal, not making a count. I have brought home a "mixed bag" more times than I can count as a kid. Couple of quail, half a dozen squirrel, two fat rabbits, etc. Enough food for a grandkid, and two sets of grandparents for a meal. Tomorrow we see if we can get enough in the morning again. If not time to set the set lines on the creek or river at lunch and haul them in that evening. You eat, then you go coon hunting that night. Coons and possums could be eaten, or even better sold to other folks to buy more shells to keep feeding your family. You skin them during fur bearing season and sell the fur for more money to the buyer. Nothing goes to waste.

Sport hunters that leave game to rot make me want to puke.

GoodOlBoy

[bigbrother]

Gentlemen, I first want give my opinion on the original comments about limits....I'm not too young to remember those times and I try to instill in my kids what hunting is really all about. We squirrel hunt, deer hunt, and just get out into the woods together. It's never about getting a limit. Frankly, you couldn't get a daily limit of squirrels in my woods right now in an entire season....

It's true that if you watch enough of outdoor entertainment, that you can get the feeling that's the image they are trying to portray. Remember, though that it's entertainment and it's a huge business. Shows that represent meat hunting just plain don't sell as well as so called celebrities or "professionals" shooting big animals. That doesn't mean that we as parents and mentors shouldn't explain and promote the reality and roots of our hunting heritage. Also, those shows exist...one of the biggest reasons I love watching Fred Eichler and his wife and family hunts. (Easton Bowhunting and Muzzy) They portray family and hunting...and he shoots whatever he can.

NOW: as far as the other comments about personal limits...they are just that and should only be driven by ones self. This is no different than religion in my eyes...I won't push mine on you and you keep yours to yourself as well. Don't say that longrange hunting is wrong and that they only talk about the ones they kill and I won't tell you what I think about flintlocks and roundballs or most people's proficiency with rifle at 100 yards and everything else I've seen...why? Because it does NONE of us any good. Everyone on here hunts, and may hunt in a way that someone else does not like or do himself....does that make it bad or wrong? If in your mind it does, maybe you should join the anti's and help shut down hunting for all, including yourself. In the end, we all answer for our decisions, big and small in all walks of our life... to others but mostly to ourselves. The wasters of deer in Michigan can rot in hell like they leave their deer, they are not hunters they are slobs and should be careful to note that this is exactly they actions being used against ALL of us to ruin what we all love.

[Rapier]

This has 100% to do with who raised you, not how old we are. If you were raised by an individual that believes the rules were made for everyone else, not them, you have problem kids and some of those kids today are adults with kids. None of these folks ever had a proper social education by a responsible adult. When you are raised to take only what you eat and eat what you take, it starts the entire process of respect, for the laws, hunting ethics, animals, property of others, etc.

Today in many areas you see the residual of the above in the increasing cases of trespass, animals left, property owners threatened, and all manner of other violations.
Ed

[skeet]

Ed...I kinda have to disagree with your statement..I was raised in an area where people were mostly poor. Not excusing the over limits That happened ocassionally. People used the bounty of the land or water. But the infrequent over the limit was dealt with by the game wardens in a unique way..It better only happen very infrequently. We may have gone over the limit..but on a case by case basis the game wardens used personal discretion.. We kinda got a few extra ducks one day..not really known(by the warden) we were over the limit..but we were. Getting ready to leave when we were checked..after checking most of everything..game warden said..if you have an extra duck or two..how bout leaving one on my porch..I got the message and complied..left 2 picked ducks for him..I GOT the message..don't do that again..and nobody had to tell me again. When things like that happened game wardens knew who needed what they had and warned 'em..usually didn't happen again.. If not for what we hunted trapped and fished for coulda been a little light on the table fare from time to time. Not saying over the limit was right..just saying that where I grew up..we used what we bagged. My mother got tired of fixing skwerl and wabbit I'll bet..but it was necessary. By the time I was 16 though..things were much better.. and then..along came welfare and food stamps...and many proud folks would not sign up for those programs..even if they needed it. As far as trespass wanton waste and threats..It's a throw away society..and we have "reality" shows, cussing and tantrums on TV and no respect for others..what do you expect?? much much different world....sadly. People think that the laws are meant for others..mainly because they rationalize reality away.