I spoke of the grizz up in the mountains on the scattergun thread

[skeet]

If any of you come up to Northwest Wyoming hunting this fall.. Be aware the grizzlies are being a real pain in the arse. We've had a spate of outright attacks, run by swipings and stalking this year..more than others . The Fish and Game seems to try to keep it squelched for some odd reason.. A friend I hunt with is hunting in an area I have no license for and he has sighted grizzlies almost every day while elk hunting.. Different bears too or so he thinks. I was up in the area and grizz tracks are everywhere..separated by a little bit... black bear tracks too.. I thought about buying a license for black bears but never had a hankering to kill one. I see them quite often in that area.. Spooky critters though. Back to the grizz..A fellow I know was hunting up in area 58(Elk area) and a grizz came running up from behind.. Knocked him down swiped him with a paw and took off again.. No real damage other than a few claw marks, bruises and a slight concussion.. But I think it took a while to clean up his drawers..woulda taken a couple of days to clean me up..LOL..The same fellow told me also he is seeing wiolves most every day in the same area.. Last year we only saw 2. A bow hunter friend was stalked by 5 wolves while bugling for elk last month..anda few days later by a grizz in the same area..he quit hunting with the bow...he carried a handgun but didn't think a 44 was quite enough for a grizzly up close and personal..

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Skeet;
I think that the reason most F&G departments play down these confrontations is because if they admit there is a problem, then THEY have to fix it.....no help from the Feds, no increase in the budget from the state govt, ect. I have seen similar things here in MI.....we have a wolf PROBLEM, but since you can't fix (read: Kill) the problem, they have to deal with it best they can.....you can only reimberse for the cost of livestock for so long before these animals (that have lost their fear of humans, partially because they aren't hunted) attack and kill a human......we've already seen it with coyotes. It has now been established that there are wolves in the upper part of the lower penninsula, and now, in order to protect them, coyotes can't be shot during deer season, so these fawn killers get added protection they don't need (apparently, the DNR came up with the ingenious plan that you can't shoot coyotes during deer season to protect the wolf populations.....apparently, rifle hunters are dumber than bow or muzzleloader hunters, because the season on coyotes is open during thier seasons.).

It might be an unpopular idea with the fur huggers in the cities, but a certain number of animals needs to be taken out to 1.) instill the fear of humans that needs to be present and 2.) remove excess number of animals from the population for benefit of the entire population. Unfortunately, there are too many people that don't understand basic predator/prey relationships, animal populations & natural control (i.e. disease), ect.

Why the federal govt. would insist on protecting certain species without have a plan in place for if and when that population gets out of control is beyond me (thats a rhetorical statement, btw).

.he quit hunting with the bow...he carried a handgun but didn't think a 44 was quite enough for a grizzly up close and personal..

Sure beats those sharp. pointy sticks he was hunting with.....also better than having nothing at all.:D

[T.R.]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/alpinebasin.jpg

I grew up in Park County, Wyoming. Many backpack trips into the Bighorns for trout during Summer and mulies in Fall. Black bears are common and some of them do not have good manners at all.

I always carried my antique Iver Johnson shotgun in 16 gauge. Kept her loaded with a big fat deer slug for educating rude bears. But in all my travels, I was never attacked nor threatened by bears. However, its best to follow the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared".

TR

[skeet]

Mr 16..I think you are mostly right..but the state has an easy out for the bear problem..wolves too. The Feds have 'em on the endangered species list.. But even when you are attacked by a bear..and you actually protect yourself and kill it..they treat you like a felon and do a reenanctment to make sure you didn't spread honey er something on you and entice the bear to attack so you could kill it. A fellow got attacked by a grizz and his father actually killed it with an arrow..a one in a million shot.. Most people have decided to go out of their way to avoid a grizz so they quite often leave rather than chance a confrontation.. Heck I had many chances to shoot a bear in Alaska..never chose to.. Even had a big blackie in the building i worked out of....not an easy thing to deal with..they weren't afraid in the summer. LOL Guy was killed by a grizz in the park this year..They thought he just walked up on the bear while hiking..She had a couple of cubs around.. Think they didn't kill her..I forgot to check.. The law here in Wyoming is really wierd ..if you hit and kill a deer you have to leave it...if you take it home it's considered poaching..Big fine for that.. Stupid waste of meat..Game warden told me they didn't want to encourage people hitting deer with their pickups so the could get a deer...Well DUH!! Pheasants too...LOL

TR...the grizz are in the bighorns as are the wolves..There are not many elk in the elk area 58(southfork outside of Cody ) and the Thorofare..is almost devoid of huntable elk...Lots of Grizz in there. Still some moose in 58 and the Thorofare

[powell&hyde]

I say we let them tree-huggers camp outside in a known wolf area for 2 weeks and then tell us there's no wolf problem!!

[Rapier]

Huh, someone is out of their tree. After hitting a deer with my vehicle a few years back, I would think the kind of damage a deer can do to a vehicle would keep people from hitting deer for any reason on the road, but then again what do I know about game management.

I do know Bambi does not like to ride in the front seat with me and I sure do not want him there either.:D
Ed

[skeet]

Ed When talking to the warden..he actually told me people would put a heavy bumper on their truck and go down the road lookin to kill deer. I kid you not..He even said it with a straight face..So I asked why they considered it poaching if they also said it was spoiled meat..his answer..Deer are the property of the State..so if they were killed and taken in any way...it was poaching..So..I told him..if deer and game is the property of the state I wanted him to remove the state's property from my land as they were causing too much damage to my crops..he sputtered a little and said that was probably impossible. Told him I still wanted them gone..he said..but you have 50-60 deer living right behind your house..I said more reason to want 'em gone....or I could send him a bill to present to the state for the crop damage. He was a young feller..had to mess with him a bit..Don't think he quite understood the BS he was saying was gonna bite him in his own behind..LOL If the deer are the propery of the state as he said it..then the state is responsible for all the deer car damage..The insurance companies would love that scenario

[popplecop]

First of all wild animals and fish are the property of the state intill lawfully taken. If one does not like this and prefers the European system that the land owner has titlethen contact your legislator. Yes, deer to damage as do alot of animals and birds, some goverments pay damage some don't. Crop damage from weather may be insured and some companies may insure animal damage too. Most auto insurance policies cover a vehicle for damage if an wild animal is struck on the roadway. And yes some have reenforced bumpers and try to hit deer, in Wisconsin a CKD may be kept if proberly tagged. Hope this may help us understand the problem.

[skeet]

PC I do understand..had to wind the GW up a bit..but at the same time the reinforcing bumper thingie is a non starter.. The idiots would have to ask the cops for a permit to keep it..after a couple times they would be suspect..don't you think?? If i was the cop..2nd time would give it away

[popplecop]

Have to prove they hit them intentionaly, some cases have been made on it though. But the State has to prove it, some have been turned in by eye witnesses too.

[skeet]

You know..if they need the deer that bad then they can have it..I know they are usually after the horns. Maybe they will have the ol deer in the front seat with 'em one day..

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Great thread. I would rather have a .44 Magnum than a can of bear spray or some bells straped onto my backpack when a grizz is on the menu. I read a long American Hunter article from 2010 the other day about bear attacks. As I recall, one fellow kept a cool countenance and killed a hostile grizz with a .45ACP and 7 rounds of Gold Dots at handshaking distance.

I am surprised to read of many grizz encounters when the hunters were AMBUSHED. Wot? One needs to maintain situational awarenesss and work to prevent ambushes. One must take charge of their security and observe everything within sight and hearing.

Adam

[skeet]

Adam.. I agree about the 44 mag rather than a can of bear spray.. BUT.. I can see you have never been around grizzlies. Situational awareness sounds good but sometimes S**t does happen. A friend calling for his father was aware of the grizz behind him only because of bad breath. These things are APEX predators and can sneak up on an aware elk or moose much less a person. A friend in Alaska avoided an encounter only because of the smell of rotting meat.. Luckily he was down wind of the bear.. But the bad thing is a grizzly has to be chewing on your arm before you can kill it. Makes no sense but that is the way of the ESA. Even if you are attacked they do an after action investigation..trying to prove you could avoid the attack. But the idea of bear spray as an item of last resort is absolutely ridiculous. But the stores in this area make BIG bucks selling bear spray using scare tactics. I have seen it selling in Cody for as much as 50 bucks per can. My bear spray of choice is a Ruger 41 mag..

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

I have been around grizz when I lived in the West for four years. I camped out in the National Forests and the name of the game was "watch your backtrail." It is amazing how untuned most people are in the wilds.

Here on the farm I have dealt with rabid animals that made far less noise than grizz. One just has to maintain situational awareness. As for when "stuff happens", I worked the projects in Boston for 26 years and grizz are safer. I agree with you about the .41 Magnum. My 6-inch SA is my favorite carrry gun in gravest extreme.

Adam

[skeet]

Well it usta be a lot safer in the forests than it is now. At least in our area. The people in the Park are taking problem bears out of the park and "placing" them outside the park. There are a lot more bears and they are not afraid of people. Not that they do anyway..but these bears have no fear of encounters with people. And they can be very aggressive. The last 20 yrs has made the grizzly equation in the local forests expand to unforeseen consequenses. They have even been known to come to the sounds of rifle fire..expecting a free meal. An older fellow I know pretty well shot a cow elk..as he was gutting it out..he looked up and there was an ol grizz. Looking on at about 25 ft. His partner didn't see or hear it coming either. One held a rifle on the grizz..the other put a 44 mag round in the ground in front of the bear. It did leave. They called up some friends on the radio and got the whole thing packed out in an hour..otherwise ol grizz woulda had some free elk. You just can't pack a whole elk out on a 4 wheeler.. The 41 is my fav too..but mine is a 4 5/8s incher. Easy to carry in my hunting coat.. It has a pocket about like a shoulder holster...only easier to access. That 41 is a good shooting gun..kicks less than a 44 but is darned accurate and has almost as much hitting energy..

As far as the projects..yep..more dangerous than the forest for certain..more bears and wolves in the projects. I worked the Cherry Hill area of Baltimore City oh so many years ago..during the late 60s riots.. I was the only one on our side with a gun..Never got to fight the fires..

[powell&hyde]

I think you are right Skeet about bears seeking out the sound of rifle fire, my brother-in-law last year shot a nice 4x4 in the Teton area with his brother and a guide. As they were gutting it, the guide spotted a grizzly about 300 yards away and approaching them. The wind was towards them so I don't think the bear had gotten a wiff.

The guide hopped on his horse towards the grizzly to attempt get it away from the party and the elk to no avail. Finally he fired 2 shots in front of the bear when it stopped and fired 2 more to finally get it to turn around.

[Adam Helmer]

I have observed that 98+/-% of the folks in the wild assume it is a mere trek in Disneyland. Two years ago a fellow in NY state went with his wife and 10 year old son and his pal to their 17 "wooded acres" 12 miles north of Elmira, NY. Whilst the parents were photographing woods flowers the two kids screamed and fled to the site of the parents. The lads were pursued by a rabid fox. It bit the father, who grabbed said fox and choked it to death. OK, there TARZAN man!

The point is: These folks NEVER Understood they were responsible for their OWN safety out of cell-phone range! IT is NOT Disneyland in the outback, so keep your head out of your arse! At a minimum, carry a stout walking staff, or better yet, a firearm to deal with wildlife threats.

In 2001, I went to a remote Maine park in early October and walked my Goldens, Webley and K-C just off the parking lot. A Maine "Yupper" drove an old pickup truck up to me and advised, "Watch out for rabid fox and coyotes hereabouts. It is too bad we cannot carry guns in the park." He then drove off. I whistled up the Hunds and enjoyed the snug weight of my .357 M65 Smith under my jacket. WHATEVER. Do what ya gotta do. If the ESA fools are too unreasonable, then just walk away from ANOTHER justifible killing.

As for "After action reconstruction idiots", just walk away and do NOT tell those desk-bound specialists anything...IF you SURVIVE a wildlife encounter, then just go on with your life knowing you had the "stones" and another encounter is just weeks or months away. Bless you and increase your church pledge. Clean your gun and get ready for the NEXT encounter. Where was the ESA Investigator when you were in gravest extreme? When in doubt: Shoot, Shovel and SHUT UP! The three S's will cover your butt in the Greenie World!

Adam

Adam

[skeet]

That last sounds so good..but not as reasonable as you may think.. It's a big wide wonderful world here. Seems as though someone is always watching. And if you do the SSS thing and they get ya later..minimum 10 grand and probably more. They actually want to send ya to jail.. Rabid animals are one thing a pissed off bear is another..I know..what's your life worth? Seems as though you lose either way. You are actually better off reporting the encounter. and if ya get chewed on evertybody will know. I always keep an eye peeled for the bears. I've seen 'em..but usually before they espied me. As far as the wolves in my area..SSS is the rule. Barnes X bullets go right on through..or blow up... Varmint grenades. Otherwise it isn't as easy as you may think. I never hunt the mountains alone..and people will talk..always..even inadvertantly. Being a cop of some sort..you HAVE to know that.

[Larryjk]

skeet, Just read a comment on another forum. couldn't agree more.