Anyone been out?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Not a lot of activity in the traditional forums lately......anyone get a chance to get out hunting? Our muzzleloading season (if you can call hunting with inlines shooting sabots and smokeless powder a "muzzleloading" season:rolleyes:) started this weekend, but I am on call, so didn't get a chance to go out. Next weekend is the last weekend of duck season, but I may give the quackers a break and go chase whitetails with the flintlock instead. Definetly going out the weekend before Christmas (took some time off from work).

Anyone got anything planned? I know some muzzleloading seasons haven't started yet.

[powell&hyde]

Our late muzzleloading season opens on dec 19th and runs till Jan 10th and I have 1 more week vacation left and will use it before dec 31st.

[buckhunter]

Our annual shotgun massacure opened last Monday. I'm still with the bow as we hunt in the burbs. Gonna hit it with the SG on Saturday then muzzleloader starts. Probably will take a couple of days between xmas and newyears then we are done with the deer. Watch out coyotes after that.

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

Our Flintlock deer season opens December 26 and runs for 3 weeks. I have never seen another Traditional hunter since I first went afield in 1996. The big woods are empty of Longhunters. We have snow on the ground and I will trek on 12/26/11 with .54 flinter and patched RB.

Adam

[Joe Boleo]

I believe you saw me toting a smokepole in flintlock season. Take care...
Joe

[buckhunter]

I'm pretty much grounded until after xmas. Hit it just about every weekend since October. Need to do some xmas shopping on Saturday with grandaughter so i will take the weekend off. Plan on going out a couple of day between xmas and new years with the smokepole. Then late season goose and final days of ducks, and then there are those coyotes that need thinning, maybe a rabbit or two, then the annual preserve hunt in Feb. Still some trigger time till spring turkery. Awe gotta love this stuff.

[skeet]

You know..been thinking about the original post disdainfully talking about using inlines and smokeless in muzzleloader season.. Well to point out...inlines have been around an awful long time..Ya ever heard of a Ferguson?? I just spoke to a friend back east in Md..His son just got his first deer with an Encore. Using Pyrodex..another modern powder but a roundball for recoil reduction...He's ten years old...and thrilled. Then he got a chance to go deer hunting in a rifle county in Md..and got another deer with the 243 bbl I gave him for his Encore. Are you saying he shouldn't be able to use an inline?? Admittedly deer are not hard to get in Md..espceially when you know all the local farmers. But if not for an inline and sabots many people would not be able to enjoy the outdoors hunting deer..possibly with family and friends. Rather than the elitist attitude about the traditional gear..applaud the fact that there is a muzzleloader season that people can enjoy. Try not turning your noses up at the mention of newer gear. I don't see any mention of disdain towards compound bows which many people think is the ruination of archery hunting..not to mention the absolute howls about people using crossbows. Personally I am glad people get the opportunity to hunt. Y'all should be too. Not dissing you all personally..but your attitude is divisive..just like the thing with gun owners saying..well I don't shoot .. Let's say... handguns... so I won't fight for other people's right to use them.. A muzzleloader is just that..a muzzleloader no matter what you shoot through it. And though I like the traditonal guns..the newer inlines are much improved...And don't forget..we started with traditional and HAD to learn them..it's all we had. People really just want to be able to hunt..not worry about their type of equipment.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Skeet;
The original intent of Michigan's muzzleloading season was that it was to be a "primative" season, with sidelocks, black powder, and round ball. The season was set up in 1975, with the idea that it would give a few folks who enjoyed hunting with primative arms a chance to hunt, exclusively, with "old timey" firearms without the pressure/competition put forth by the traditional firearms deer season. Since it's original conception (one that a LOT of traditional longhunters lobbied for), it has become a sort of "extra" season "to harvest surplus deer" (which, thanks to misguided deer management by our DNR, we really do not have anymore)......so instead of being to go afield in peace, I have to deal with every moron alive out there who bought an in line "so he's can kill 'im some mo de-ah!".....no working up a load, or learning about misfires, how to measure bp, ect.....just drop in a couple of pellets, slam that sabot on top, and shoot at the first damn thing you see, irregardless of the range (cause, you know....these in lines can shoot jest as far as my .30-06, and hit harder, cause its shootin' a beeger boolet!)

Elitist? Maybe, but seeing has how in line shooters are allowed to shoot during the rifle season, and the muzzleloading season was intended to be primative, I"m a bit disappointed by the fact that the inline crowd and the DNR have allowed the small window of time we were allowed to hunt to be bastardized into some 'harvest', instead of a hunt. Yes, inlines have been around for a quite a while, and I am damn tired of hearing about this every time the subject comes up! If they want to use an inline, then great....get a copy of the ferguson, load it with LOOSE BLACK POWDER and ROUND BALL and go hunting. Sabots, pyrodex, jacketed pistol bullets, and stainless steel were NOT part of the ancient inlines!!!!

So, in a nutshell: 1.) It was meant to be a PRIMATIVE season, not the free for all it has become! 2.) In line shooters DO have a season; it's called the firearms deer season....so why can't I have mine? 3.) If it's so great that everyone gets out and hunts, irregardless of how, equipment, ect., then why can't I use my muzzleoading firearms during bow season? (bet the bow hunters wouldn't mind....do you think?)

[Adam Helmer]

Joe,

Yes, I saw you in October muzzleloading season, but NOT in the after-Christmas Traditional Season.

Adam

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

You are entirely correct about Primitive Muzzleloader Season (s). In PA we had a week of antlerless deer hunting in October and 3 weeks after Christmas. The prescribed arms were flintlock only, open sights, roundball and .44 caliber, or larger caliber. Then things changed: Maxi bullets and conicals were allowed. The October ML Season became "Any Muzzleloader" and the inlines hit the woods outnumbering the flintlocks. We still have the Traditional (Flintlock) Season for 3 weeks after Christmas.

I need to disagree with skeet when he says, "A muzzleloader is just that... a muzzleloader no matter what you shoot through it." That is true, as far as LOADING GOES, BUT there is a world of difference between IGNITION Systems from a knapped flint to a 209 Primer! A 209 primer in a bolt action inline is windproof and waterproof and 100% reliable and a light year above a flintlock with a pan of 4F afield. If the percussion and 209 primers were not more reliable, then all folks would use a flintlock, right?

It takes attention to many details to keep a flinter shooting; many more that a #11 percussion cap, or 209 primer eliminates. I own and shoot three recurve bows, 5 flinters, 4 percussion arms and 2 inlines. My perspective is that I would never say all muzzleloaders are "Just Muzzleloaders." There is a big difference that is real. I am glad PA keeps the Traditional deer season for the Longhunters.

Adam

[skeet]

All the muzzleloader seasons were staarted for primitive firearms. Caplock and flintlock. Sorry if you don't like the fact that things have changed. I may look at it a bit differently. Adam. Not many people would know how to knap a flint..so you say they shouldn't be allowed to hunt?? You my friend are wrong. When it was necessary people who lived the wild country had to learn. So they did. many people said that the old flinters were great..when they worked. Which wasn't always..not even for you..Mr Coulter. Mr 16..I'm sorry you don't like the fact that the primitive seasons were set up 36yrs ago in Michigan. But your way is not the only way. Yep things change..Unhappily we don't always change with IMPROVEMENTS to our sport. If you really want to hunt in the old manner..then by gosh do so..but don't act in such an elitist manner when others who want to enjoy the same sport do it with much improved and legal firearms. Use a muzzleloader duck hunting. I've done it..more'n once too. They work.. but not my cup of tea. I am thinking that most enjoy the sport as much for the outdoor experience as for the kill. Not all think like you said and take those 200 yd shots.. I am glad Pa keeps the season for flintlock shooters..But a longhunter?? Nice to dream the dream...but... None are that any longer. I used to bowhunt quite a bit..Shot a hundred arrows a day to keep sharp..and I was sharp.. Then the compounds hit the scene..made instant hunters out of people who didn't put the effort in to learn archery hunting. I even tried 'em.. Personally I don't like compounds..but for me to say that the people who use them are not real hunters.. Hell that would make me an elitist..just like y'all. A muzzleloader IS just a muzzleloader..just like a compound or even a crossbow is still ...just a bow.

BTW in some reading I found a little blurb that was kinda neat...The average shot in Eastern muzzleloader hunting is under 40 yds. My longest with my TC Hawken 50 cal was a bit over 110 yds. Longest with my inline Savages haven't been over 50

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Points well taken; we agree that flintlocks are more fussy than the more reliable #11 caps and 209 primers. Some Longhunters choose to use the old flinter way of hunting and should have a separate hunting season. No way is a muzzleloader
"just a muzzleloader." Yes, technology has advanced, but what is wrong with hunting (or fishing) the HARDER WAY?

I do not think I am a elitist if I support a flintlock deer season for 3 weeks in PA. We have barbless hook trout streams and catch-and-release streams. Everyone knows the restrictions BEFORE they participate in the sports. If a person cannot manage a flintlock, then hunt with an inline in the October ML season or the general rifle deer season. NO inline user is being denied the opportunity to hunt. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man needs to know his limitations."

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Unhappily we don't always change with IMPROVEMENTS to our sport.
Inlines are not 'improvements'.....they are DETRIMENTS!!!!!:mad: They are a detriment to the original reason we have 'primitive' seasons!! They do NOTHING to promote the original reason we have 'muzzleloading' seasons, which is historical, NOT managerial!:mad: If you are trying to piss me off, you are succeeding! You sit at your computer and type that I am elitist because I think that modern inlines are ruining the SPORT of traditional, primitive seasons? That's a GREAT position for a moderator to take.....thanks for the insult! The inline crowd is enjoying THEIR sport, alright.....at MY expense!!! I know that there are others out there that think the same as me!
There is a whole subsection on this board designed for modern inlines and thier ilk....I suggest that you promote their poison on that board, and leave the traditionalists alone.

If this is the crap I can expect from a "moderator' on this board, than I am done!:mad:

G.F.Y.!

[skeet]

Mr 16..One thing I am not trying to do is insult you. Your attitude insults others for choosing to use the improvements that are available. As I said..use what you like. I applaud you for doing so.. But don't try to make anyone else reading your posts feel guilty for using said improvements. Don't get all fired up over semantics...AND GFY??? to me because I point out your obvious bias to others for their choice of sports? Why such a chip on your shoulder? If any of the mountain men of that period had the chance then to use the improvements of today..we would all be foolish to think they wouldn't have. Most may have been uneducated to today's standards..but they were not stupid. I really don't understand your POd attitude. I only pointed out your attitude toward the sport of others. Cool down and veg a bit. And even a moderator on this board has a right to an opinion. I am not hurling insults such as you did and won't

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

You are right, the Mountain Men would have used Polaris Rangers and inlines, IF they had been available. In the era 1820-1840, Rangers were not available so they walked , rode horses,or paddled a canoe while carrying flintlocks and percussion arms.

Some folks like to experience "a similiarity of conditions" by dressing in Hudson Bay coats, carrying flintlocks or percussion sidelocks and make their campfire by using flint & steel (wood matches were invented in 1828). Many folks are reenactors and have brief hunting seasons to live by the old ways. I believe it is fair to have a flintlock-only deer season for 3 weeks. Our PA archers have six weeks in the fall and three weeks after Christmas for archery, concurrent with flintlocks.

Firearms are constantly improving, but that is not what I choose to use after Christmas in the big woods. I "tune" my flinters and enjoy our special season.

Merry Christmas.

Adam

[skeet]

And Adam..I applaud you for doing so. it is a neat thing to hunt in that manner. Only thing I was saying..just because you or anyone else enjoys doing it your way..doesn't mean the newer ways are wrong. I'm glad the mountain men didn't have 4 wheelers or semiauto guns. They lived a hard but fullfilling life...in my estimation. Is the flintlock season 3 weeks long? Is it flinters only?? I thought they changed it to percussion too. Merry Christmas to y'all too. One thing I like about Wyoming..people aren't politically correct here. 98% say Merry Christmas...as opposed to about 20% back east

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Yes, the three week after-Christmas PA Traditional deer season is Flintlock Only. The week-long October antlerless ML deer season is "Any Muzzleloader" so flintlocks, caplocks and inlines with scopes are legal. I have a little pony horse who goes afield with me after Christmas. She is merely along to pack out our deer if we are fortunate afield.

Adam

[skeet]

Surprisingly..we don't have a muzzleloader season per se.. In one of the greatest mountain man areas of the west. many people hunt with them though..I know a fellow who killed his elk with a flinter 3 yrs ago.. It missed fire last year..so the elk got himself outta there. He used a percussion this year..but no elk yet. Less'n a week left

[wrenchman]

16 did you make it out i didnt this year thow i do have a in line i still love to use the side lock.
I have taken to hunting in the morn with the side lock and evening with the inline my eyes have problims seeing sigts in low ligt i didnt have this problim 25 years ago.