1911 safety question

[elkman12]

I have a question for anyone who uses a 45 auto 1911? How many carry the auto with the hammer back and the safety on. Or with the hammer down needing the time to cock the hammer. I see times for both but it bothers me to have this in a holster with the thing in full cock.

[skeet]

I always carry cocked and locked. That is the way the pistol was designed to be carried. If you really need to... put a locking strap on the holster that will keep the hammer from falling on the pistol. I have seen that done on quite a few holsters. If the gun is in good condition that grip safety will not allow the hammer to fall anyway. It does have to be gripped and the safety released to fire. Looks dangerous but I don't consider it to be..but I am used to the gun..carried one since Viet Nam..Two while there. LOL

[Jack]

I carry cocked and locked, too.
I know it bothers some to see a pistol carried cocked, but, that's a perception problem, not a real one. I guess I better explain that. . .
A 1911 has 2 safeties, the thumb safety and the grip safety. So, when you carry 'cocked and locked' you have 2 safeties at work.
Now, does it worry you to carry a Glock, or any other pistol (striker fired) without a visible hammer? I bet it doesn't.
Glocks, and many other concealed hammer autos, are basically cocked all the time. You do have the safety on the trigger on a Glock.
So, carry a Glock with one safety, or a 1911 with 2. .. .which one makes you nervous? They're both cocked. You just can't see it on the concealed hammer designs.
I don't mean to pick on Glocks- I use them for an example because they're well known.

[powell&hyde]

I also carry cocked and locked.

[buckhunter]

Jack pick on Glocks all you want. There is nothing wrong with carrying cocked and locked. Many do it and its fine. I carried on almost daily during my Military days and since then. I do carry mine a half cock. Is there anything wrong with this, I say no. Its just a personal preference. Its second nature to me to cock the hammer when I draw it. 99% of the time when present with a situation in which you have to engage there is enough time to cock the hammer and in a cocked and locked situation, take the safety off.

[Skinny Shooter]

Galco makes the Fletch holster which has a retaining strap that goes over the rear of the slide on a cocked 1911 which is in effect a hammer stall.
I carry Condition 1 which is cocked and locked the way the gun was designed.

Buckhunter, how do you lower the hammer to half cock?
I have large hands but it is more ergonomical to easily sweep the safety off with my thumb than to shift my grip to thumb back a hammer.
Under stress and/or in a close grappling situation, I can get that safety off much easier.

I'd never want to "go off half-cocked" :D

[skeet]

Well stated Jack. I don't like to point it out to the Grock crowd that their guns(and others) are cocked.. Many become belligerant about any negative thing said of the glock. As far as carrying on the safety notch on a 1911......Nah..drop the gun..hit the hammer... safety notch is pretty small...no safety on..possible bang. on a cocked and locked..you would have to lose the cocked notch safety notch and the grip safety to go bang That half cocked thingie is funny Skinny..now another thing..on the DAO..are the strikers staged to go off at all?? I'm not sure of it. I've had a few Striker fired autos..all suck in my opinion..but..I AM a 1911 guy. The only striker fired that I have now is an OLD Colt 25 auto..oh and a disassembled Colt 1903..It would burp 'em all when pulled..LOL Hardly ever shoot that 25..but went into a gun shop a couple days ago..they had a box of 25 auto ammo less 10 rounds and i bought 'em for 4 dollars..10 cents apiece...Think I'll blast that stuff. Oh Just remembered..have a 32 cal Beretta too...my hide out gun..

[Adam Helmer]

elkman12,

Welcome to this Forum; I see this is only your 8th Post.

You raise a common question about Condition #1 with the M1911 pistol. John Browning designed it with input from the Army Ordnance Board and the Cavalry Board. The Cavalry was responsible for the grip safety, as I recall. Browning designed his M1911 to be carrried "Locked and Cocked" and I carry mine that way. I do have a Bucheimer holster with the restraining strap going over the rear of the slide to assure folks who will not rely on the thumb safety. I am ok with the thumb safety and the wife likes the leather retainer/hammer block.

I know many LEOs who insist on carrying Chamber Empty with the M1911 AND Glocks. I was present once when there was a need to shoot and a LEO RACKED his Colt's slide to Chamber Load his pistol. The result was a flurry of shots from the Bad Guys BECAUSE NOTHING sounds like a 1911 being chamber loaded than racking the slide! The Bad Guys got away and no one was hit, fortunately. Moral of the story is: If you carry a 1911, carry it right or carry a revolver. Racking the slide will IMMEDIATELY direct BG fire onto your person!

Adam

[buckhunter]

Skinny-I lower the hammer very carefully. I use my off hand. I put my index finger between the hammer and frame, thumb on the hammer and pull. If it slips out of my thumb then I get a pinch on my finger. Maybe not the best but it works for me.

[popplecop]

Have been around 1911s since back in the 50s, I carry cocked and locked as they have two built in safetys, the manual and grip. Also when drawing finger is not on the trigger, safe as any mechanical safety can be.

[Skinny Shooter]

okie dokie BH.

[dhlaw74]

Friends,

I maintain a Kimber 1911 in my vehicle as opposed to personal carry. While the weapon is fully loaded, I do not maintain it "cocked" but it does not have the safety on as I thought that unnecessary.

I am primarily a shotgun fan and always release the triggers springs when storing the weapon, even for the night.

Q: Does keeping the hammer on a 1911 cocked negatively impact the springs?

Thanks,
Dennis

[Dan Morris]

Cocked n locked........
Dan

[skeet]

As Dan said..but the springs may be affected marginally after many years. The spring on a 1911 is after all a leaf type of spring. Shotguns should not really have the triggers pulled Most of them have coil springs and certain shotguns when pulled on an empty chamber may peen the bolt face and break firing pins..one example is a M-12 Winchester. 1100s and their family of shotguns have springs in the bolts and they are shorter than the bolt.

[skeet]

Meant to add earlier that you can not apply the safety on a 1911 if it is NOT cocked. The safety will not go on. When you said fully loaded..did that also mean a round in the chamber but not cocked. If so that can be a bit unsafe as the gun could fire if dropped especially if on the hammer. Another thing many people who really don't understand..guns like Glocks and the other striker fired pistols like the S&W M&P semi autos are always cocked unless the trigger is pulled on an empty chamber...and there is no safety such as the ones on a 1911. There is a trigger interlock safety...but a nervous trigger finger makes that a very unlikely safety in times of strife.
A little true story. I live near grizz country..hunt in it for elk etc. A friend called and wanted to get a handgun for protection while hiking in that same grizz country. He asked if a 9mm would be a good gun for grizzly protection..talked him into either a 41 mag or a 45 Colt single action Ruger. After shooting both he chose the Ruger 45 Colt. Not a bad choice. Then honest to pete..he said it was a pretty large handgun and he didn't know where to put it in his backpack. Yeah the bear is gonna wait for him to take off the pack root around in it and retrieve his gun. That is somewhat akin to carrying a 45 auto with it unloaded and uncocked. A criminal is gonna wait for you to rack the slide and get the gun ready to fight. carry a 45 the way it was meant to be carried. Sometimes you just don't have any time.
BTW We also got his wife to learn how to shoot that gun and she was better at it than he was. Sometimes women are very good shots. She ended up with her own Ruger 45 Colt

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Which spring on the M1911 "is a leaf type spring?"

Also, many agents carried their M17 or M19 Glocks chamber empty contrary to agency regs of chamber loaded. I told them many times that "racking" the slide in case of danger would direct Bad Guy's gunfire onto them pronto!!!!

Adam

[skeet]

Meant to put in there the only spring that may take a "set" is the flat grip safety spring.. I've had one or two of em go bad over the years..but they were all on military issued guns...so may have been a bit suspect to begin with. One was on a 1915 issued gun. That gun still has an original two tone mag with lanyard loop serialed to the gun. It is still a very good working mag. I think the barrel is original too.

[Skinny Shooter]

Skeet, tell your friend to check out this holster to carry his pistol: http://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/Chest_Holsters.php

[skeet]

Looks good to me. Little spensive but good leather is hard to find and it ain't cheap now. We have a custom maker out here neatr Cody. Heck even my wife bought a holster from him..but she knows the gal that does a lot of work for him.. Don't know if he has a web site but his name is Von Ringler. He ain't cheap either. A funny story. The gal that works for him walks to work..She went to work one day and had to go home for lunch. Walkin in the snow..her footprints going to work were covered by the prints of a grizz. Told my wife it scared her a bit..so now she carries an 1100 slug gun to work. Woulda scared the crap outta me..I would have driven to work.. I'm a chickin when it comes to grizz. Just checked..Ringler Custom Leather www.all one word after. Lot of grizz attacks out near Clark Wy.. Lot of wind too

[Rapier]

The funny part about this is that the 1911 was designed to suit the military as a replacement for a revolver, fire by squeezing the trigger. So what did they do when they got the gun, directed that the official carry was hammer down, safety off, empty chamber and a loaded magazine in the gun. In the GI flap holster it is pretty useless in that condition, unless you call "time out" so you can engage.:D

I carry two striker guns, a KelTec 380 and a Para Ord LDA lite, the little 7 shot 3 inch CCW 45. The LDA has a hammer but it is a decoration.
Ed

[skeet]

Hey Ed.. I have one of those little 7 shooters. It's not the most accurate but good 'nuff for gunfightin range.

[Rapier]

Skeet,
I was going to getrid of mine, got it in a show deal. Then I took it out and shot it with my old 25-2 IPSC revolver load, the darned thing shoots about an inch and a half at 25 so I decided to work it over. Today it looks like this:

[skeet]

a LOT prettier than mine. but mine works ok. I've seen a few that didn't shoot worth a darn. too many hitches and hiccups

[Rapier]

As you may have guessed, I have been building 1911s for some time, actually since 1965, when I became an armorer in the 101st Airborne. One day I went out to a qualification for all of our TO & E handgun issue, guys. As normal, I brought my armorer's kit with me plus a 50 cal ammo can of spare parts just in case. About half way through the qualification process, I had a Capt walk over to me with his 1911, hand it to me and say, make this d****d thing shoot, it will not even stay on paper. I was new at the job so I said, "I really do not know how, sir." So the 3 tour Vietnam vet stood by me and explained step by step how to make a 1911 shoot. I mean I used a piling top as an anvil and beat the slide tight with a brass hammer, then made it function / fit with a flat file, changed out old parts for new parts, right in the gravel parking lot. When WE were done, he would not shoot it until I did, I took the 1911 over to the the line and qualified as Expert. He then took the gun and qualified as Expert. When he handed me the gun back, to put it in the handgun security box, said; "when we get back to the unit area, you issue me a card for that gun and do not ever allow anyone else to check it out." I have been building 1911s ever since. Oh, once the rest of the guys heard the story through the grapevine, I had a lot of issue guns to build and fix.

Gezz, I guess that was 48 years ago.
Ed