Next Project - 20 gauge Fiber Wad Loads

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah I know, it's me again, can't be happy with standard operating procedures. So here is the question. When I was a kid the BEST squirrel and quail loads I had were 20 gauge, paper shell, #6, 7/8 ounce, 2-1/2 dram loads, with fiber wads. no plastic shot cup. I kid you not these were the best shooting rounds I ever fed through a shotgun and I can't find anything today that comes close (well anything I can afford anyway). Heavy field loads, mag loads, ultra fast loads, "standard" loads, none of them seem to do the job like those old paper shells did. So where does a fella go about getting the information for loading up fiber wad loads these days? Not necessarily out of paper shells (since all of mine have long since returned to the earth) but the loads even in modern shells? I know that RST makes effectively this original load at $135 a case, but #1 I don't have that right now, and #2 ever since I reloaded my first metallic case I have been hooked on rolling my own.

Real downside - all I have is a Lee load-all is 20gauge, and my mec 600jr in 12 gauge was supposed to come back to me after a long term loan but lets just say its complicated and I don't expect to see it again.

sooooo again opinions, facts, tips?

Thanks again for puttin up with me!

Richard

[skeet]

Rich.. Gonna be honest. We look back at things in the past in a nostalgic manner. Me too for certain. I remember so many things from my youth as being better. But to be honest. The 20 ga loads of yore while being pretty good for the day..will really not stack up against loads from today..in most guns. That said.. Data is a little skimpy but there are card and filler wads available from 3 or 4 sources out there. Are it cheaper to buy and load 'em..not hardly. It is a niche market mainly for people with the old guns like short chambered doubles and English/European guns. They were a little slower on the takeup when GOOD shotshells came out...continuing to make short forcing cones and short leade chokes. And you also made a comment about paper shell cases not being available. There are some available in mainly 12 ga..but finding 20s is gonna be nigh on to impossible. If I were gonna load 20 hunting loads..in plastic cases..I'd load plastic wads. Heck what am I saying..I do load that way. As a side note..the real culprit in loads today..is the shot. Those Dove and Quail and Rabbit/Skwerl loads are terrible but cheap. The shot is pretty much drop shot with under 1/2% antimony. Load good hard mag shot(6 to 8% antimony) and you will see good patterns and much better killing power. Ain't cheap but look for either copper plated mag shot or nickel plated..good patterns and mag shot makes good loads. I once bought some nickel plated 9's and loaded 'em in the 410. Shot really great patterns and I broke my first 100 straight in the 410 with 'em. Just wayyy too expensive for skeet shooting..and nickel 9s were very hard to find. BTW chilled shot is about 2 1/2% antimony so it isn't much better than drop shot

[GoodOlBoy]

year before last I took my last partial box of paper 20s out of storage and went squirrel hunting. I did it mainly because of nostalgia, but also because so far that season I had shot uncountable squirrels out of trees and lost them because they ran off. I took 19 of 20 (the one miss being way may fault) that dropped from a tree like a rock and never moved with those old shells. The next outing with modern 20s (both heavy field, and express field) I knocked 14 out of trees, and recovered 2.... Of the 2 I recovered one of them had about a half cup worth of various sized shot between his hide, and the meat. It bothered me. Still does. I won't shoot a critter that I can't be sure I got a clean kill on, and for whatever reason those old shells just do it better. I don't know if it is the quality of shot, a "square" load, fiber wads, or what. Heck maybe it is all in my head, but those are the numbers. Those old shells killed without the thump of $18 a box loads, and the $18 a box loads don't kill as well on TOP of thumping. As for the plastic shot cups you can't hop a squat in the woods where I am at without being able to count a dozen old wads laying around. People pick up the shells, but the plastic wads just lay where they land. Fiber wads eventually deteriorate. For skeet shooting yeah I use AAs or STSs and never look back, can't beat them. But I just can't find a decent squirrel shell these days in 20 gauge for my 33 year old single shot H&R. Dunno what it is.

Richard

[GoodOlBoy]

Heck I don't know, and I don't mean to sound like an expert (I ain't) or as if I am ignoring you Skeet. You know a heck of alot more about it than I do. I just want to have one good hunting season for the first time in a long time. I have almost given up on hunting, fishing, and everything else because of the PTSD and the depression. Heck I find it harder and harder each day just to freakin get up and out of bed. Last years hunting season sucked, I went pretty much empty handed. I have almost no danged place left to hunt because of all the outsiders moving in, I can't take the heat any more due to the meds I am on, and I am so danged flat broke that if it wasn't for the drs insisting I do SOMETHING I couldn't even get away with my reloading budget (which aint much) I just want to feel a hunt the way I used to as a kid, when a cat squirrel was as big as an elephant and a deer was like a dinosaur.

Just... just ignore me. It's been one of those months so far.

Thanks for the advice, I will save up my pennies as I can.

Richard

[GoodOlBoy]

Sorry for the outburst there folks.

Skeet, and others.

So if I was going to load using a modern plastic wad, and looking at the loads on hodgdon's site is there a particular wad you would recommend for low recoil, good pattern, etc? I used up what i had gotten from a buddy (WAA20s and enough stuff to get me started on the lee press), and I have to pickup more powder, primer, shot, and everything else.

Any suggestions appreciated, really they are.

thanks

Richard

[skeet]

Rich the easiest to load (in my opinion) are the Remington RXP..and they usually show a little lower pressures. For heavier field loads Hodgdon Longshot powder seems to be a good one. The real expense will come in the price of good shot. Magnum only or plated if it can be found..For them big ol Skwerls in the trees 6 shot is the smallest and 5s are much better. Skwerls are really tough critters...not joking. When i was a kid shootin a Win 37 410..5's are all I used for skwerls or rabbits. Shot my first goose with 3 inch 5s in the 410. I was rabbit huntin at the time and that ol goose flew right over me at about 30 yds. Bang/flopped him(think it was a LOT of luck involved). I'm gonna be travelin for a bit..but send your addy to me by either email or PM. I'll see what I might have around that you can use. I gotta go back to Md/Del. But I ain't gonna be gone too long. Should have added the RXP is for 7/8 ounce only. for 1 ounce the yellow Win 20 ga field wad

[GoodOlBoy]

7/8ths is about all I really want to shoot in that old single. I took my first squirrel, quail, dove, rabbit, coon, possum, crow, chicken hawk, chicken snake, and deer with that old single. A couple years back I added a hammer expander to the hammer so my arthritic thumb can cock it easier. Other than that she ain't had nothing but a good coat of oil now and then since the day I got her for my 6th birthday. She's never failed to go off, and she always hits where I point her, even if it ain't where I meant too :D

Be careful on your trip buddy.

Thanks

Richard

[skeet]

Well with the right powder we can give you a bit more velocity..or we can go slower. Slower makes for tight patterns.. Tight patterns and large shot drops them big ol skwerls outta the tops of trees.

[GoodOlBoy]

slower and tighter is good with me. Some of them squirrels are older'n me n you put together. I shot one year before last that we couldn't cut with a knife, bugger had saber teeth on him I mean to tell ya.

Richard