325wsm

[scalerman]

Thinking seriously about putting this calbre into my arsenal. Do you guys have any thoughts?

[Larryjk]

Follow your lead. I have always been a fan of the .323 caliber bullet. They are the equivalent of an '06 in the 57mm chamber. I have an 8mm Rem.Mag. in my cabinet that I know is the bigger equivalent of the 300 Weatherby. To like an 8mm you have to ignore those who have not experienced what they can do. It is the American thing to do is ignore anything with the mm in the name.

[skeet]

Although it is a good caliber as such. My question for you is twofold. 1st..Why? 2nd um why?? Not knocking the caliber itself. or the size of the bore either. But like a couple other Short Mags and WSSMs..is it going to be here in 5 yrs or 10?? And the other question is anything it will do is done as well or better by the 338 Win Mag. for which there are many good bullets both for reloading and in factory loads. And ammo is and is going to be much easier to find also. So if you can live with the maybes etc. Go for the 325. My personal feeling is the only Short mags that will last are going to be the 270WSM marginally and the 300 WSM. It is pretty popular around here. You can actually find ammo for it locally and I know a guy that has a 270, a 300 and a 325 also..but has not shot either the larger or smaller of the 3. And to top it off I think all are Kimbers..but he also has a 338 Kimber which he does use for elk.

[Larryjk]

skeet, Where were you when all of the "gun writers" were telling us how much faster and more accurate the short magnums were? They were more efficient, and on and on.
They didn't mention that it was hell to make them feed unless it was a new action specially made for the short magnum, and if you had that action it couldn't be rebarreled to the standard diameter cartridges without trouble. A friend bought an action on Gun Broker and brought to me for barreling to a standard diameter magnum. I checked it and sure as heck someone "unloaded" it on Gun Broker because it had been opened up for a short magnum. I returned it to him and said the best thing to do was to try to sell it to someone who had a terrible need for a short magnum. But you are right. the only one that may survive for a few more years is the 300 WSM. Most of the manufactures aren't cataloging them anymore.

[skeet]

Oh Hell Larry,

I never have listened to the gun writers..well at least for a long time..I was enamored with Jack O'Connor till I met him. They wouldn't lie ya know..not in the 50s and 60s. The writers are for the most part behlden to the gun companies etc. I am certain the 300 will last and probably the 270 WSM too. People are still really fond of the 27 bore....and it ain't as expensive to shoot as the 270 Weatherby. Another good cartridge by the way.

[scalerman]

Skeet, may I ask you a question? Why not? Is there some other reason other than your opinion that the caliber will not be around in a few years? There are numerous calibers out there that people shoot that are not necessarily mainstream. I think that the 325 shoots fairly flat and carries lots of energy down range. It seems to me it would be great for elk and moose. I am looking for a Winchester 1885 single shot so the feeding issue is not on the radar for me.

[skeet]

Scalerman. I have no issues with the caliber. They shoot well from what I have seen. We kinda wrung one out at the range last year here at Cody. It shot fine..Kicked a little in the Winchester rifle which was a bit light...for a mag caliber. It should be a fine round for you. It is certainly going to pot your elk with aplomb I think. And of course even if it is discontinued by the factories ammo will still be made for a number of years. I've shot quite a few different calibers over the years. Nowhere near as many as Petey and some of those guys back east. My only wildcats being some AIs and the 35 Whelen and 25-06s(not wildcats anymore of course). My only critical point on the 325 is like many calibers out there it is somewhat extraneous. Meaning if it weren't for the factories needing something new to sell...it would not exist. The same caliber is covered very finely by the 8MM Rem Mag...no big seller in it's own right. I happened to have had to try one of them also..Very powerful... Kill anything on the continent. But like the 325..kind of extraneous. I had a 340 Weatherby also..Thank you Jesus...I lived through that one too. I decided that the 338 Win Mag was more than enough for me. As stated..more and better bullets available..(good no... GREAT)ammo much easier to find. Less recoil than the 8 or 340 and cheaper to shoot. I shot a few rounds out of a 340 yesterday. Friend's Weatherby and that rifle will shoot. But oh my..it is a little violent. We also shot his 257 Weatherby I talked him into buying last month at a gun show(he got it cheap). I went to his place cause he needed some reloading bullets and he had a new Forster Co-Ax press I wanted. He has a 100 and 200 yd range with a bench set up in his garage. The 325 should be a good caliber for you..and not so hard to shoot. Have fun with it. But like my friend and I felt talking about the 325 yesterday ..remember if you ever try to sell it in the future..It will probably be harder to sell...especially if discontinued by the factories. BTW I also like the single shots. Have fun with it.

[scalerman]

Thanks Skeet. I was just curious to know why you felt the way you do about the 325. All of the things you mentioned have crossed my mind for sure. I think it really boils down to the fact that I want a Winchester 1885 and the 325 WSM is about the only caliber that it has been chambered in recently that I would like. Truth to be told I would really like to have that rifle chambered in either 300 or 375 H&H- the original magnums and as far as I can tell still very potent and deadly.

[skeet]

I truly like the 375 H&H. In fact have an old Winchester in that great caliber. Not fun to shoot however. I also have a 300 H&H M-70. Not mine but an old fellow here gave it to me to use. It was restocked(by him) and sadly not too well..as it is not as accurate as I have found most of them to be. in fact it is terrible. I put it in another Win stock and it shoots much better..but as I said..not mine. The 300 H&H is not an easy caliber to load for either.. in my opinion. But I have a 300 Win mag(Kimber) and thankfully it is not finicky. Shoots very well. I almost bought a 1885 in 45-70. But I kept asking myself..why do you want that dum-dum. So I passed. The single shot I had many chances to buy and always kicked myself for not getting was a Colt/Sharps single shot. Ah..beautiful rifles No gorgeous..and I still look for one today. But sadly the prices are really much too high for me now. Collectors pieces now. And i had quite a few in hand back 20 or more years ago. I may still buy that 1885..the gun shop that had it closed it's doors and is selling everything at auction soon. Hopefuly it will not go too high.

[scalerman]

A friend of mine has a Ruger #1 in 375H&H. He showed me that gun probably 30 years ago and I have been in love with single shots ever since. I have a #1 in 270 Win. It took some tweaking but I have got it shooting very well. The 1885 has always been the first one on my list. I just never have found one in a caliber I liked.

[Rapier]

I am curious, have you ever shot a WSM before?

Some folks think, small case, light rifle, small recoil. Taint true, a WSM is exactly like a full house magnum round made worse by sticking some of the WSMs in little light "mountain rifles." I have built a couple and built them with 26 inch medium weight barrels, because I knew that recoil is recoil when you push X bullet weight to magnum velocities.

As long as the 300 WSM is around you will not run out of brass by the way.
Ed

[scalerman]

Personally I have not. I have shot enough rifles to know that light weight is not necessarily better. A proper fit in a rifle is more important than weight. A heavy rifle that fits poorly can hammer the crap out of you just as a light weight rifle. A light weight rifle that fits properly has less felt recoil than a poorly fitted one. I hunted with a guy that had a "mountain rifle" built by Remington. 18 1/2" barrel. Light as hell. He consistently wounded game. I had an occasion to shoot it. The one time I pulled the trigger convinced me to tell him buy a new one. I had no feeling in my fingers after pulling the trigger. That thing kicked like a mule. It fit like a club. Now I know why he wounded so much game, he was scared spitless of this thing. I am looking for a Winchester 1885 in 325 WSM so the weight issue should be a moot point.

[Larryjk]

Rapier, You are right on the case volume. It doesn't make much difference whether the case is short and fat or long and belted. Volume is volume. Many of the WSM calibers are about 100 fps slower than their closest stablemates. I just had a 270 WSM here in a Savage and the weight was more than a 270 Weatherby which is usually about 100 fps faster. Shooters are still going through the idea that a 6.5/284 is more acurate than a 6.5/06. A 6.5/06 built with the same care of manufacturing as a comparable 6.5/284 will shoot side-by-side with the famed 6.5/284. Just about identical volume.

[skeet]

Ah Larry..the 6.5-284. Another caliber the companies have to come up with to sell more stuff. The 6.5-06 is a whole 3/4 inch longer in the action and shoots the same. I must say..I just don't get it..It is in a shorter action and is much easier to carry shoot and hit with..Ummm...HUH?? When yer hunting the only thing that REALLY seems to make a difference is the weight of a rifle. The short mags and the short 6.5 to get 'em to perform well you have to have a rifle just about as long. They make the 6.5-284 usually with a 20 inchbbl. as opposed to as say..6.5-06 with a 22 inch bbl. Which one is gonna shoot faster? My 30-06 Kimber has a 24 inch bbl. The 308 has a 22 inch. They are both Classic Selects..They are within 5 ounces of each other in weight. The 308 is accurate..the 06 is the most accurate 30 cal rifle I have ever shot. Gun companies are getting like clothing makers. Gotta have the NEW improved hot lookin fashionable thing every year. Now I really don't mind lookin at them shorter and shorter dresses that them wimmin wear..but the shorter and more fashionable rifles confound me. And the writers..well they tout the new stuff just like them fashion writers..with the same results

[Larryjk]

Skeet, I have had some experiences with barrels that are the same length, same cartridge that have widely different chronograph readings. Also barrels of different lengths where the shorter barrel is faster. I have come to realize that when gun-writer says the latest zip-bang is so much faster; I would like to see the results of a 5 barrel average, and the slowest and fastest of the lot. Speaking with a barrel manufacturer, they said the barrels that air gauge a little tighter will shoot faster than the loose barrels. He also said they are not going to get into air gauging for tight barrels for sales purposes. No one would want the loose barrels. I agree. (If only they would sell me the tight barrels)!

[skeet]

You are right Larry. A couple of 10thousandths make a big difference. They also make a difference in pressures. I had one 22-250 that shot faster than the other.. Both Rugers. Accuracy was about the same but with the same load..one would almost lock the bolt. Very stiff lift. The other was fine. Same load and almost a grain under max book loads..Velocities were not even close... more than a 100 fps difference higher with the maxed out rifle.. but with all that said..the shorter bbls usually shoot slower. sometimes quite a bit in the smaller bores. My 243 is a 22 inch one. and will not reach the manual speeds..close but no C gar

[scalerman]

That makes sense. I have always been under the impression that all else being equal that a longer barrel will produce faster velocities than a shorter barrel. Am I mistaken in that assumption?

[skeet]

Quoting(all else being equal that a longer barrel will produce faster velocities than a shorter barrel) . That assumption is correct all else being EQUAL.. longer will trump a shorter one every time.. But remember..different powders even with bbl lengths can make a big difference. Everything you change will make a difference. Seating depth the leade in the chamber the case the primer the bullet itself. All that being said..Sometimes many things will not make a big difference. Primers is one thing that quite often make little difference..as long as you use a standard primer for a standard. Other times it can make a much bigger difference. Handguns and magnum primers can make a BIG difference between loads. And then sometimes you have to use a mag primer..many factors make either small or large differences. That is why we call it load development I guess.

[scalerman]

Well guys I got my 325 WSM. My wife brought home an X-Bolt in 325. While this was not my first choice in firearm, my search for an 1885 in that calibre was not meeting with any success. I loaded some shells for it and went out to shoot. I can honestly say that I have never had more fun shooting a rifle in my life. The recoil is not as bad as I thought it might be. It drives tacks. I get a huge smile every time I pull the trigger. I think I am in love. The fact that she brought home a White Gold Medallion model I'm sure helps with that. I am so looking forward to working up a load for it and taking it out to hunt elk this fall. I am beginning to think my wife might be a keeper.

[scalerman]

I took my 325 out to the range and shot several different loads out of it. It shot them all very accurately. They weren't all to the same point of impact but the groups were impressive. I took it out hunting yesterday and dropped it from a height of about 18 inches onto the recoil pad and broke the stock. To say I am pissed would be the understatement of the century. I am going to send it back to Browning for a replacement. The rifle slipped out of my hand as I was putting it on my shoulder and dropped to the ground. I heard a click when it hit the ground and thought maybe the metal sling swivel had hit the stock or something. When I picked it up it came in two pieces. I felt sick to my stomach. If Browning will not come through for me I am not sure what I will do.

[Rapier]

If you have not sent the X Bolt into Browning yet, you might consider buying a decent stock you can finish yourself. I only say that because I absolutely hate the Browning poly finish, I remove it from ever shotgun and rifle I own then refinish them in oil. Everything and anything those poly stocks touch leaves a gray spot on the finish, looks like they have been left in the rain (water spots) after a while.

Oh, if you want to get the best results, accuracy and velocity from a WSM, try VN-560. It will get you that extra 100 fps normally missing from the WSM. There used to be a Short Mag forum on the net and I found and long thread about 560 on that thread. My 300 WSM 180 gr loads with 560 went with me to Africa.
Ed

[scalerman]

I have been looking at different stocks in the event that Browning will not come through for me. Any suggestions Rapier?

[scalerman]

I ended up buying a laminated stock from Boyds. Holy crap what a difference. I was concerned that I would not like the gun as much with the new stock. I took it out to shoot and found that not only is the recoil much reduced from what was already a light kick but it also shoots much more accurately than it did before and it was no slouch before. I am so impressed with this gun it is ridiculous.