How do you figure that? No offense but that just seems rediculous.

I just did some comparing, and I dont know model 70.....

You gotta weigh the odds pretty heavy for the 270 to make it out perform the 30-06. With the same weight bullet, 150, its no comparison. The 06 beats it. You have to go all the way down to the 130gr for the 270 to take over with the 06 still shootin a 150gr.

Take the 280, and the same bullet weights and it blows the 270 out of the water in all catagories....

Look, just admit it. They are all fine cartridges. But, the 270 is no better or worse for whitetails than a host of others. Its a good deer rifle. Not the perfect deer rifle. None are.......

Andy

I think that is the point that I was trying to make. No rifle is a perfect deer rifle for all the possible situations that are out there.

I just can't do it. I dunno, I may be hard headed but I ust can't do it.

I think aswell as Jack O' conner that the 130gr. bullet in a .270 is the best for deer hunting. The only advantage the .270 has over the .280 is the availability of factory ammo. You may roll your own but ALOT of deer hunters out there still shoot the ol' tried and true core-lokts.;)

So when shooting the 180gr. in the '06, the 165 in the .280 abd the 130 in the .270, I'd say the .270 takes 'em.

That post I will agree with.

A lot of information in this thread that means little. The only way to compare performance between rounds is to make those comparisons with bullets of equal Ballistic Coefficient and equal sectional densities. The weight of the projectile is almost irrelevant to how it performs down range. It's velocity, shape (B.C.), and sectional density will determine its trajectory and retained energy.

Compare the 130 grain .270 to a 200 grain .30 caliber bullet with a B.C. of over .300 at about 2950 fps from a .300 Win and see what the numbers prove downrange.

Such comparisons must be "fair" in a true scientific sense if they are to have real meaning. Andecdotal evidence from individual cases in the field will be interesting but not very important as far as ballistic facts are concerned.

By the way, anyone want to argue about how many angels can sit on the head of a pin? The differences between the .270, .280, and .30-06 on deer are as impossible and irrelevant to define.

To the last part of that post, I'm talking about real world stuff. Sometimes hunters forget their shells at home. Drop into any local store and you will likely find .270 but not .280 stuff.

The '06 may have a couple hundred more foot lbs. of energy than the .270 but do you think the deer cares? Now, the .270 has maybe an inch or two less drop at long range. It could mean the difference between a complete miss and a killing spine shot. That matters.

You can also look at it the other way. If the person shooting the rifle has no idea about drop and range finding, you can either have a complete miss below the stomach with a .30-06 or a gut shot with a .270 Win.

While it may be true that .270 ammunition is more available than .280, that fact in no way makes the .270 a more perfect deer cartridge, which I thought was the topic.

If some way could be devised that you were forced to spend the rest of your life shooting a round that you could not identify in any way except by observing the results on paper and animal targets, you would be very hard pressed to tell whether you were shooting the .270, .280 or .30-06.

I will stick with my original contention that there is no PRACTICAL difference between them all when it comes ot shooting deer. Any "proof" that one is superior to the others on deer is a just a paper chase. Note the "on deer" as a qualification. On bigger animals and smaller ones there are differences that can occasionally matter.

Ok, forget ballistics. Real world stuff here folks. The fact that hunters forget stuff and the fact that in a pinch, you can buy .270 almost anywhere make it more ideal for deer hunting. True, the .280 may be able to do what the .270 can but is not readily available everywhere. This is something alot of folks must do when choosing a one and only deer rifle.


Also, if a hunter does not know what his gun can do, they shouldn't be taking the shot.

270 Perfect??
 

Sure it's perfect for deer as are the others that are listed. Hell A 45-70 is perfect for deer in the right scenario. The point of the whole argument is being missed here. The 270 is a perfect cartridge for deer. That is what it was developed for in the first place. Is it the only perfect cartridge for deer?? No.... Of course not. It works for deer at short range and at long. It's one of those cartridges that just seems to outperform it's actual ballistics. The whole point here is that the cartridge is fairly easy to learn to shoot well because it doesn't recoil excessively. It is flat shooting at pretty long range and ammo is easy to find...anywhere deer are hunted with rifles. Now guys, don't get all het up over this post. It isn't the only perfect round but it is one of the Most perfect. So is the 30-30 for the guy that knows his ranges he can shoot. The 300 Mags are ...well.. perfect for some also. BUT for the average shooter buying his ammo it is one of the best. You all do have to realize that the average hunter probably isn't the best shot in the world...can't take too much recoil and isn't a reloader anyway. I figure that Andy and most of the people who have posted here are above average in their hunting abilities. So be it. BUT the mags aren't easy to shoot and harder to learn to shoot well takes them out of the PERFECT for the average shooter. Heck...I bought a Weatherby 300 Mag to hunt moose with in Alaska. A friend up there still has my rifle and it must be a perfect moose rifle...he kills his every year with it...so it must be perfect for moose. Personally I liked the 338 Win mag for moose a whole lot better. The 338 was fairly easy for me to shoot. The 300 Weatherby??? Hated the darn thing. Kicked violently and was really loud. Couldn't shoot it for squat. I can't sell it cause it was an early Weatherby and worth a good bit. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the PERFECT deer rifle is the one you can shoot the BEST!!!!:eek: A very UNIQUE idea isn't it??:D

and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......

and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......

and, the 270 cant do anything the 30-06 cant do.....

and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one.....

i see a pattern here, do you?????

;)

Okay, I now have a headache.

Yes, in a perfect world, the shooter would know his rifle in and out and always make the perfect shot with the perfect deer rifle. Oh yeah, the world isn't perfect.

If it were, we wouldn't have to worry about somebody misjudging distance or the ability of the gun. We would never have to worry about a complete miss because all the shots would be spine or neck shots that are instantaneously deadly.

I agree with one other post. Trying to argue about which deer cartridge is the best is ridiculous. The only question is whether or not the cartridge can get the job done for the person shooting the gun.

Since Fabs brought my name up I will add my 2cents:D ......We have made clean one shot kills on deer at 500 yards with a 270win.Shooting the 140gr BT...That is as far I will will take it tho.It does not drop below 1000ftlbs on energy until about 650 yards.I like to stay as close to that as I can .As for being the perfect cart for all situations,no it is'nt...But for the inside 500 yard guys its real close..Shot placement to me is job one.And yes there are people out there that can make one shot clean kills at 500 yards and beyond in any wind short of a hurricane.Just to add something here..My LR gun is a 300 Ultramag shooting a (Rocky will like this) 210gr Match style bullet with a b.c. of .665 at 3350fps has 2800ftlbs of energy at 650 yards and does'nt drop below 1000 til 1500 yards...My 270 is my go to gun when I'm out walking.And I know it will do the job I ask of it when the time comes

I completely disagree.

This is getting quite ridiculous...
There's likely not a 'perfect' deer rifle, as so many others have said. The terrain where you use the rifle has a whole LOT to do with what you think is 'best'.

"and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......
and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......"
I doubt that, and either 270 or 30-06 will be easier to find at the corner store than someone's (name withheld) favorite 30 caliber magnum....

"and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one....."
I doubt that, too. Based upon my observations (and I don't own a 270)

We all have our favorite cartridges- based on what's worked well for us, or those around us we've seen using their rifles on deer.
Could we leave it at that?

I'll take that in turd-turd please:D

I completely agree. Read back and thats what I said in my first post. There is a list of perfect deer rifles. Depends on the situation and the person shooting it. Many, many are capable of the same results.

Sounds like I ruffled some feathers there. Wasnt the intent. I actually was having fun with it. Nothing heated. Just a discussion.

Gotta give you this model 70, you have a strong conviction about the 270. That probably makes it the perfect rifle in your hands for whitetails.

But its not in mine or many others who have the same conviction for a rifle capable of as much or more.......

Good Luck ;) :cool:

Andy

Hi All,

My......My it's getting heated in here:rolleyes:

As for me I don't have a 30.06, might do one day then again I might not. I am certainly not going out looking for one but I have seen a few BSA's chambered in that I am looking for another BSA rifle so............

One thing I don't see mentioned is the use of Hollow point HUNTING bullets. I know of a fellow up in Alaska who swears by them, uses a 115 grn HP in the 7x57 and tells how deadly it is on the Cariboo. I tried some Sierra 140 grn HP's on paper through my BSA CF2 stutzen which has a 20" barrel. Why they chambered such a short barreled rifle in 270 Win God only knows, I tend to used medium burnig rate powders and have good success with H380 and H4895 in this short barreled rifle. Anything slow like Rel 19 and Win 760 gives a BIG fireball out of the muzzle which is wasted energy:rolleyes:

Oh this is the rifle I ws shooting the 130 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips at 600 yards with. You might be surprised to know that the 100 grn Rem PSP bullet does not group at 600 yards:p I tried it and found that out for the fun of it:D

Now I have until next September to decide on which rifle to use in the US for my next Whitetail hunting trip choices are at the moment from:-

270 Win BSA CF2 Stutzen (20" barrel)

270 Win BSA Majestic Featherweight (22" barrel)

7x57mm BSA CF2 (half stocked with 23 1/2" barrel) (used in 2003 Whitetail season)

.303 British BSA Model E (24" barrel)

.308 CZ-Brno Mod 601 (24" barrel)

7.92mm (8x57) Parker-Hale 1200 Super (24" barrel)

6.5x55 Mauser M96 (Slide Bolt with 22" barrel)

6.5x55 Sporterised Gustave Mauser (22" barrel)

9.3x75mm Husqvarna Mod 46 (24 1/2" barrel)

6.5x54MS 1903 Schoenauer (23 1/2" barrel)

30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt ( Bespoke bolt action rifle with a 25" barrel, shoots 130 Grn spitzers into less than 5/8"at 2800 fps)

Which ever one I choose will be shooting at 1" or less at 100 yards with the hunting ammunition, I would prefer less than 2" at 200 yards but my three Whitetails I shot in 2003 the furthest shot was at about 65 yards and I was expecting up to 300 yard shots:rolleyes: A few I have still to work with to get the accuracy I am aiming at others exceed it already, I hunt with them all here and I enjoy collecting them as much as I do shooting them.

As you can see I have no favorite cartridge, the 6.5x55 Swedish has done me proud, as has the .308 win, 30-30 Win and 7x57mm. As yet I have to take game animals with the others, the .303 has taken Fox but not Deer as of yet and with the 270 Win I have had Deer in the sights but only to be the wrong Deer or sex and either not the beast to be culled or out of season due to being wrong sex. Roe are in season all year but only one sex at a time, it's Does just now:D

Me once I get the accuracy I want then it's how I feel at the time and where I am going which makes the choice, for Air travel I want a QD scope set up so I can carry the scope in my hand luggage. Not all are set up this way just now but I am working on that;)

Brithunter,

Appreciated your info, especially the details on the 30-30.

It seems that the 30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt is one of your favorites. I can sense why.

You listed 270 Winchesters with 20 and 22 inch bbls. With those barrel lengths there will probably be not much difference in performance from the 30-30.

For the ranges you seem to be shooting and the game size I'd also lean towards the 30-30 in "that" rifle.

Put a 25" bbl even better a 27" on the 270 and you have a whole different breed of cat. Velocity may increase from somewhat less than 3000 fps to something on the order of 3200 fps or maybe even more with the right barrel specifications.

With the increased BC and velocity your range will have been quite extended. But it seems not really necessary for your general shooting environment.

Where I find this increased "flatness" helps is where one is hunting in an area where the shot will be well under 100 yds and 30 minutes later the opportunity will be more like 300 yds.

BTW, if I was given the opportunty to select one of your collection for my only big game rifle it would be the 7X57.

Took my first whitetail (1958) with my first rifle (7X57mm) when the only ammo available was 175 gr factory loads. That rifle (surplus Model 93 Mauser) is still being used in Western Pennsylvania. Its been a first rifle for a lot of youngsters.

Like I said, I'm stubborn. I still think the .270win covers every type of deer hunting in any condition with any species of deer you will find, perfectly.

I can promise you the .270 with 22" barrel hits ALOT harder and shoot ALOT flatter than ANY 30-30win.

No heat from this guy btw.

Copy the cool, M-70.

Guys, it's really simple: EVERY cartridge out there is just peachy keen, cat's whiskers, dead nuts perfect - for somebody.

It might be affected by how they hunt or where they hunt or what else they hunt for. Or it might be because they're hunting with Grampaw's ol' shell-shucker.

Or just maybe because they once made a miracle shot with it. But THIS O'l Betsy and no other is the PERFECT deer rifle for him. And ain't no arguin' wit dat.

;)

Hi royinidaho,

Thank you fro you kind comments, yes I am rather proud of the Medwell rifle, it's a one of a kind in the true way. I did not order it just picked it up when it came on the market and I would have liked to have brought it to the US last year with me but I was not able to get insurance to cover it. The makers gave me a quote to replace it and the insurance companies don't like it:( The load I am using is not at the top yet but the accuracy is so good I stopped right there, funny thing is I get the about same velocity with 150 grn flat point bullets as well just under 2800fps.

As for the BSA 270's well I have the odd ones the Std weight Majestic has a 24" barrel on it, the featherweight only weighs 6 1/4lbs and was made in 1959, the CF2 was made in 1984 and strangely has a slightly loser chamber than the older majestic, the CF2 was brought new. I have some chrongraph results from the Stutzen 20" barrel using RWS factory ammuntition, The results are over 5 shots. So the 270 does surpass the 30-30 even with my hopped up reloads.

173 grn H-Mantle loads average was 2563

130 grn T-Mantle loads average was 2996

I have not checked velocities with the longer barreled Majestic yet, I need to borrow the chrono first. Must get one of my own one day:rolleyes:

For comparison the 30-30 gave an average of:-

2756 fps using the 130 grn bullets

2677 fps using the 150 grn bullets

Upon checking my reloading records I see this is when I was working up the loads and I have increased the powder charge a bit since then, but it still does not equal the 270's velocity of near 3,000fps.

Oh I noticed that I also checked out the 7x57 handloads the same day using the Hornady 139 grn BTSP bullets:-

and got an average of 2773 fps

Which again I have increased slightly to get over 2800fps.

Where I hunt here I have the chane of shots out past 300 yards, but I seem to get the real chances close up for some reason or another but I do agree that the 7x57mm is a great old timer which performs as well today as it ever as done. I have 4 rfles in 7x57, 3 of them are M93 Boer Mausers including this one:-

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/1...33/9876878.jpg
It's one of the rarer Boer Plezier rifles, I need to get the fore sight blade repaired as the bead has been broken off the fine blade. And yes I have shot it, in fact I brought some Remington 175 Grn bullets so I can load som e cartridges close to it's original loadings so it will shoot close to the sights. The other two are a long rifle and a carbine.

The 270 Win has a soft spot for me as it was my first rifle I purchased and I doubt I will let it go.

BINGO Rocky!!

I got a ten year old boy that would argue all day long with you on this subject. Your not going to tell him that a 243 with an 80gr bullet is not perfect for deer. He has fired 4 shots in 4 years and killed 4 deer with it from 50-150 yards. To him, its the perfect deer rifle and you wont change his mind.

Same for alot of us. I happen to like alot of different guns. By doing so, I have learned just what I have been trying to say and Rocky just hammered home......

Andy

Does your son not know the ballistics of the .243 or something?

Hi Model 70,

Weeeeeeeell you could talk ballistics all day to that boy but you won't change his mind and not a lot will until some thing bad happens whilst Deer hunting and he loses one. :(

I pray that this will not happen and he will grow into other rifels/cartridges as his interest in shooting grows. All he needs to know about ballitics now is that when he aligns those sights correctly the Deer is his:p it does not matter how fast his bullet is going or what the BC is. It works and that's all he cares about right now, not a bad state of mind to be in I might say. The technical bods amongst us often confuse ourselves with too much data and then make a muck up of it:confused: the less to think about the less to go wrong at that point.


If you look at my chrono figures I have loaded the 7x57 so it's not far behind the 270 Win, the data for the 270 was with 130 grn bullets and the 7mm used 139 grn bullets. Less than 200 fps between them and I can load the 7mm some more for a higher velocity yet and close te gap some more. I wonder what the difference would be if I loaded them to equal pressures. The rifle is the same make and model so the strength is not an issue, brass is brass and 7mm cases are a good design after all the 30-06 is based on the 7mm
:p

Hes about ready to graduate after next year. His little brother will be ready to start and inherit the 243 Handi Rifle Youth and big brother will move up a bit. Into another "perfect deer cartridge".

I havent made my mind up yet on what to get him. I think Im going to get him something I have been wanting. A TC Encore. Probably with 25-06, 17Rem and 50cal blackpowder bbls. He can use it for both our deer seasons and coyote hunts. (May be two bought just alike, dad wants one too.... ;) )

He dont know much about ballistics, more than you probably think he would for his age, as hes been around it alot.

For him, the 243 has been a perfect deer cartridge. Good for any kid I would think. I know alot of adults that swear by it too. I have killed several deer with mine too, but it seems to gather alot of dust anymore. Found others I like better for deer and coyotes. Still a fine round.

BTW, Brit, you are correct. He knows that if he sees a deer that dad says is in range and he lays that little rifle up on those sticks and puts those crosshairs behind the deers shoulder and holds it steady as he squeezes the trigger, the deer will go down and he is one happy camper. And dad gets a full body arm and leg hug.
:) Well, I did. I guess hes growing up. This year he got up and shook my head and said thanks, that is a nice deer.... My little boys growin up.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Have you thought about the .257 Roberts cartridge? seems a fine Deer cartridge in a more effecient compact package than the 25-06, velocity does not seems much difference in them. Or another favorite is the 6.5x55 Swedish cartridge, Boy there is a wide selection of bullets for the 6.5x55 and the Encore is available in this chambering. A fellow from another site uses one a lot and has great success with it. The 6.5 cartridge is fully capable of taking Moose and Elk cleanly with the 160 grn bullets:cool:

Have fun with your shopping:D

Brit,
Yeah, Ive thought about it. Ive always kinda had a love affair with the 25-06. Its not much more than the 257, but a bit. We all have our preferences.... ;)

I have considered the 6.5x55 seriously. I have been exposed to them quite a bit and they are impressive. I agree stongly with that. After I wrote what I wrote above, I actually thought about that. I have a 25-06 and that 6.5 might be a nice addition.

Ive studied alot of cartridges I hadnt studied much before this thread. I have killed a deer with my buddies 280 Mountain Rifle once when I had some technical trouble with mine. It was very impressive and after studying ballistics on it closer, thats a real option. Awesome ballistics, velocity, trajectory, enery, bc, its got it all.

Decisions, decisons. :) I would bet that since I already have the 25, I will end up with either the 6.5x55 or 280.

I really do need some more deer rifles. :rolleyes: :D

Andy

So we're all agreed?

Hi All,

Yes you can never have too many Deer rifles, I find just like candy, one is never enough:D

agreed on what?

That the .270 is the perfect deer cartridge.

Where did I say that??

Um...I read between the lines?

Hi All,

Well now we know that Andy's 10 year old son is not the only one who won't listen:rolleyes:

Model70 is as stubbon/daft/bumb (delete as required);)

:D

For a second I thought you said DUMB. I'm anything but.

Yes already!

6.5x55 it is;)

I must say that I did get a pretty good chuckle out of Model 70's posts alond with the rest of the posts, and I pretty much needed a laugh this morning after finding out that my sister's BMW was stolen last night. I told her not to get that car, but she continued to argue with me that it is the perfect car. LOL

For the last time, I will say that the perfect rifle is in the eyes/hands of the holder using the rifle. I prefer the .300 Win Mag that I own. Others might not like the recoil and I might not like to shoot somebody else's .300 Win Mag. I have a .270 Win in a Remington 700 that I truely do not like. I have modified it in the same manner as the .300 Win Mag, which happens to be a Ruger 77MKII, and I just don't like that gun compared to the .300 Win Mag. I also have a .30-06 Savage Model 110 that my dad bought before I was born and I don't really like shooting that rifle either, but will if I have to. Now, all three of the rifles have killed their fair share of deer, I just prefer the .300 Win Mag.