Funny, that "back to the middle class" thing.

If you look at history, every single time that "power to the people," "workers' paradise," "rule of the proletariat" and similar rhetoric has been touted, we ended up with Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Idi Amin, Manuel Noriega, Saddam, Hugo Chavez, Mao...

And if we believe it again, counter to all experience, we're gonna get the next socialist tyrant: Hillary.

And "the people" will end up just as powerless, just as screwed over, while the tyrant steals billions.

How come is it ??
 

That the power to the people types always think the Democraps are the ones that will do what they hope? I wish that we could get some good people in the political process but they only seem to want more money or more power and never give us po folks what is actually our due? Which is..Honesty in office !!! Just a question...why would anyone spend millions of dollars attempting to be elected to an office that pays 400,000 bucks or less. Unluckily I think that the Republicans are not any more honest than the dems but they at least let us keep an illusion of having some say in our government. The Dems always seem to tell us what is" best for us" as if we are too stupid to know. Such as the myth that we don't need guns.. The law is here to take care of us. And we don't need to work..we'll pay ya welfare so you don't have to worry about the next drug fix...and food stamps etc etc. When will it ever stop. Do illegals deserve all these things too?? The dems seem to think so:rolleyes: Personally I don't think that way...and I've been a lifelong (Southern)democrat too...mainly on a local level. But they are even changing at the local level. Too many soccer moms(and dads) with such liberal ideas. Where has the idea that we should be responsible for our selves and our own actions gone? Purebred Redneck.. If you are a Southern Democrat then you have seemed to have lost the conservative ideals of your forefathers. Sorry for the rants guys and gals!

skeet

Problem is your right. The day of the Southern Democrat went to the grave with J.F.K.

I too was raised in a Home of Democrats, so far I have voted for one Democrat, J.F.K. The rest have all been bums as far as I'm concerned. There were some Republicans that weren't so hot also but they were the "lesser of two evils" so to speak.

If I had a choice I wouldn't vote, however that doesn't solve any problems either. The only choices for me is to vote Party and hope the Presidential choice, even if a lousy one can drag some State Representatives with him into office.

Presently in my State we are stuck with the 3 clowns we have for the next 20 years. My Great Grand Children will be voting for them.

Solution, TERM LIMITS. Once these people get elected they are there for life. Let 'em get elected and after 8 years they can look for a regular job like the rest of us.

Best wishes, Bill

Wonderful idea, Billy.

Now, how do we get the guys NOW IN OFFICE to vote themselves term limits?

Answer: Ain't gonna ever happen. And there's nobody else who can pass laws.

Rocky

Point well taken. Darn, I hate that. :D

Bill

Skinny, I can't speak for Pure Bred Redneck, but I think what he was referring to re Iran is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra

I'll make a prediction: the personal, shake your hand and actually talk to you politics of Iowa and New Hampshire is over. In those small states, someone can spend time instead of money, and pull off an upset. Huckabee being a case in point in Iowa.
From now on, money's going to rule, and only well financed candidates will have a chance. Florida is the next primary, in a few days, and then comes the February primaries with 23 states holding primaries at the same time. No way a candidate can spend time instead of money in 23 states at once. Big bucks will rule in February. I've heard the figure that 3 million will have to be spent for a candidate to win in New York, and 4 million in California.
That narrows the field a lot, on the Republican side. Romney is the only candidate with enough money, right now. McCain may be able to raise enough to compete. Unless Guiliani pulls off a big win in Florida, he's done- he won't be able to raise enough money. Same for Huckabee.

Politics has become big business, instead of public service. The job of President only paying $400,000 a year? Please! The Bush White house is so secretive that there is no telling what kind of kickbacks are going on. What is wrong with big business? Nothing, not a thing, industry is what made America great. However when big business is allowed to run rampant and indulge the greed of corporate america, then we have a problem. We have had our share of democrats, and true enough, they have done little to improve the lot of the "common man" so to speak. They do make the big wheels of business nervous though.

The whole campaign funding issue is horrible. They should pass a law that makes funding even across the board. Nobody should be able to influence a candidate by offering them campaign funding. Maybe taxpayers should pick up the campaign funding and make things fair. Sheez. No wonder nothing ever gets done. Big business is probably funding the campaigns, the sheeple need to vote for the candidates, and then the candidate is in a bind to do anything because they don't want to piss off their source of funding or their source of votes. Sheer stupidity.

A good idea would be a series of televised debates/ question and answer sessions, well mediated and not allowed to devolve into a shouting match. Financed by the government/ taxpayers, free tv time like the President gets. Each candidate has an alloted time to speak his mind and lay out his platform, then answer questions, posed from a mixed panel, no softball stuff and no soft answers, we dont move on until a direct answer to the question is given. Outside of these venues there would be absolutely no campaigning or ads and commercials, candidates cannot accept any money from any person, group ,or corporation. No showing up on Leno to smile and tell lies. Then when the guy got elected he would have to stand behind what he said on national television.

That sounds like a great idea. On top of that, how about letting the American public impeach a President for not doing what he/she should be doing.

Speaking of politics, can you believe an economic stimulus package has passed the House but might get stalled in the Senate. Some of the democrats in the Senate want to add additional items in it to take care of unemployment benefits beyong 26 months and increased welfare. Honestly, if somebody is unemployed for over 26 months, I really don't think they are trying to get a job, and don't even get me started on welfare. Again, a bill is in place from the House that the President is willing to sign, but the idiots in the Senate. I truly hope they come to their senses and pass this thing. As it stands right now, the IRS won't even be able to get the money to the people until the end of May, beginning of June.

I was thinking about this money they think will spur the economy. If it is spent and not saved I think China will win in the long run.. You can 't buy anything that isn't made in China. Where do they figure we will win on that one other than give the store clerks something to do. China will still be the biggest winner. We need jobs here and make things here. I live in the biggest steel mill area in the world and it is all flat now..they are stripping the soil where the mills once stood and selling the slag stone but also selling all the stainless, any other steel they find overseas to ....China. .We don't have any steel mills left to melt the stuff..
.I think the news media is at it again with their games... Clinton, Osama...the fight continues on news...this is free adds for them....every night on the news...people will think they are the only 2 running..... anyhow...I Will do the republican thing...like once said....you never worked for a poor man...for long anyhow....go big business but keep it home.

Well, the way to keep it from going to China is simple: don't buy any more "stuff" with it. Save it. Invest it in stock, buy a mutual fund or even a government bond.

You want to stimulate the economy, plunk that money INTO the economy by investing in a good US company. One especially good stock to buy right now is Garmin. It's poised to double or even triple over the next few years. Before long, everything that moves is gonna have GPS in it - and Garmin is leading the pack.

My guy pulled out....
 

Fred Thompson was my choice... but I took a poll asking how I felt on things and it turns out John McCain is 84% in agreement with how I feel....

And there is no way in hell I'd ever vote for McCain. He's a damn Commie in my opinion... he's anti capitalist, he's pro-environmentalist... he sleeps with the Democrats, votes with the Democrats but somehow he's got this poll buffaloed...

Next to McCain for me would be Romney or Huckaby... Huckaby is a hunter. Huckaby is 2nd Amendment. Obama would vote for the Akaka Bill that would essentially change Hawaii from a State to a foreign country.... that man is very dangerous for America.

Aloha... :cool:

Because I'll be in Vegas on Feb 5, I voted early yesterday. I looked with disappointment at the Republican list, because Fred's name was still there even though he has pulled out.

Utah will go to Romney in a landslide, of course. I voted for him on economic grounds. I know he's a bit weak on RKBA, but he's probably the strongest of those remaining. Those that have a chance, that is.

Y'all should take the test in the following thread.... :)

Aloha... :cool:

You do injustice to baboons and syphillis germs.

Hillary is basically a nasty person. The more people see of her, the less they will like her. Time is not running in her favor. The worse things get, the more Bill will interfere, and the more he interferes, the weaker she seems. People had almost forgotten how the Clintons operate. Fortunately, people are being forcefully reminded.

Obama is articulate, but very light in his loafers. Articulate and telegenic are winning attributes.

Edwards is a huckster, pure and simple. Watch who he tries to help after he backs out. That's who he thinks will win.

Huckabee will now fade quickly. His campaign is essentially out of money. It would take a major, early, unexpected win to rejuvinate the campaign. He would throw his support to McCain, but not to Romney, just on personal grounds.

Trends are running in favor of Romney, and he has financial staying power. That is incredibly important. He is clearly the most capable executive in the race. There are things I don't like about him, but he is very capable. His campaign could probably survive a defeat in Florida.

McCain is hard to predict. If he wins Florida, his campaign will have life. If not, the outlook is challenging. He's not near the executive Romney is.

Gulianni's strategy of sitting out the first few, and focusing on Florida has killed his campaign. He's done.

I think it will be either McCain or Romney against Obama. Hillary will be just a memory, and a lingering foul odor in the air.

But then, I do injustice to foul odors.

"The whole campaign funding issue is horrible. They should pass a law that makes funding even across the board."
Fabs, they tried to do that. The bill was called McCain-Feingold, and it did pass.
The law has some flaws, for sure, but someone at least tried.
And take a careful look at who opposes it.

Jack,

I vaguely remember a bill being talked about regarding campaign funding, but I don't remember much about it. Since I am in hunting season, the beginning of cycling season, and tax season, I just don't have time to read the bill that got passed. I'll have to rely on you for the synopsis.

Fabs, rather than me flounder through trying to explain a law to a lawyer, take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain-feingold

My 2 cents worth
 

After reading all these posts and the hundereds of posts I've read on this forum I have a question for most of the posters and readers out there. Are you better off today then you were 8 years ago? If you own your own business like me, you answer is probably no. I certainly am not, and I voted for "DUBBYA". What a mistake that has been. So these are my choices? Hillary the b***h according to all the write ups or the muslim in sheeps' clothing.
Jack and Rocky,
Another huge factor for the diesel fuel prices higher than gasoline is as simple as this. If you are involved in shipping or receiving ANYTHING bought or sold in the U.S.A., there are shipping costs and fuel surcharges placed on everything from beanie-weenies to boats, RV's and automobiles. So the truckers who grid locked Washington D.C. many moons ago now don't worry about the cost of fuel since it is BEING PASSED ALONG TO THE CONSUMER!!!! Ands you can thank DUBBYA for that also. How could I have been so stupid to vote for him.
I'm glad Fred dropped out because I might have made the same mistake in voting I did 4 & 8 years ago. I ate lunch and went to a Titans game with him a few years back and he's a great guy but I just can't deal with some of the things this political party does or brings to the table. Again, just me 2 cents worth....

Well TE
 

I have to just say this. Am I better off now than 4 or 8 yrs ago? Nope..Was I better off in the previous 8 yrs?? NOPE. What makes you think that you are going to be better off in any future time?? The liberals in the government are not going to leave. The middle level bureaucrats are the ones that really run this country. Ya think not? They can't be gotten rid of...they keep making themselves more and more important and they keep expanding their powers. If you think not just look at the welfare beaurocracy. Look at the ones who run it. If you really need help from that agency...you'd better have some strong help politically. The problems this country are facing right now have been coming since the late 80's early 90's...maybe before. When NAFTA was passed we lost big time. Also lost when the powers that be decided that we(the US) would be the worlds policeman(1970's BTW Jimmy Carter). We lost a lot of jobs with NAFTA and a lot of money being the policeman. The war on Terror has been an expensive proposition but in my opinion it has been working. We haven't been "attacked" as we were in 9-11. again. At least not yet. If we did not pursue this course I can tell ya that it would have happened again by now. Those namby pamby liberals would have given in to those low life scum by now otherwise....and as they say do we have the resolve to save ourselves? I can guarantee you that osamma bama or Hillary will not do what is necessary to save this country. And to be honest I wonder if there is anyone in the other parties who have the resolve either. Maybe McCain but I doubt it. Personally I feel that if you are concerned with money only then you don't deserve or should expect to keep the other rights that you enjoy in this country. Vote your pocketbook...but when the gestapo comes for your guns or to take away any other rights remember with whom the blame lies!!:rolleyes:

Oh and by the way..not flaming you personally..just had it up to my neck with people saying am I better off? Heck no... and I've never been better off after any presidential term in office. And I doubt if any one can say they were. May have made more money...but it sure as hell cost more to live too!!:(

skeet

You have it right my friend,the bureaucrats drive the agenda in Washington and until we the people take it back our republic is not going to improve. Regardless of who is elected as President. JMHO

jplonghunter

$$$ Skeet
 

Voting my pocketbook might be our last defense with the options we have on the Presidential ballot. Without $$$ I can't buy the guns I'm hiding from the Gestapo.
Look, I understand your point of view and I think we are saying the same thing....THERE IS NO CLEAR CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!! When this country picks of next President and only 25%-30% of registered voters cast there ballots and the winner wins by less than a 10% margin, have we really elected the best choice for this country or have we given the Presidential position to a candidate with the most money, by default. I am convinced, from whatever side of the political fence you stand becoming our CIC is not rocket science, but who you know and who you.... Money changes everything, just ask Cindi Lauper.(Lame 80's reference) Don't believe it? Obama mama raised $32,000,000.00 in the month of January alone. Are you kidding me? What do we need to do to have a President who has read and believes in what our constitution stands for?

You still don't get it
 

Voting your pocketbook is nothing but a lame excuse. If you don't vote your conscience...meaning voting for what is right then you are giving your rights away. Do I see a GOOD candidate? Of course not! But as Rocky said...I'd vote for a syphilitic orangutang than any or either of the Dems that will only tell you what they think is best for you...give more money to the non working leeches in this country and take everything from you to pay for it...as well as taking all the other rights and privileges you enjoy in this country. In 8 yrs with Osama and or Hillary you will have nothing left..not even what you think you are hiding. And NO...you won't be better off in 4 or 8 yrs no matter what you think now. Between Greenspan tax cuts and what the Repubs have done we have staved off the money woes that we have coming up in the near future. But the way the dems do things you'll be paying more and more taxes to pay for the ill advised things the liberals will foist on to us in the future. You know...I hid a few bucks and some other things during the BIG Y2K debacle.. I may have done it at the wrong time. Might be time to hide items that will mean real wealth in the future. Glad i have a little gold and silver and arms and ammo. All will be worth infinitely more in the future than they are now. Maybe even food! Oh in case you are wondering..yep I am REALLY worried!:confused: :rolleyes:

Oh, I get it Brother.....
 

Options are like...... well you know the rest. Perhaps you could find an island in the south pacific to rule over. SKEET ISLAND! Population 1 and don't anybody else come in! You can take your gold and silver and live of the land! A dream come true! No taxes, no worries, nothing to complain about. SKEET'S FANTASYLAND! Maybe you could build rides and have shows like a theme park!
Come on man! Wake up and quit blaming the government for everthing and start looking at friends, family, fellow bloggers, etc. and blame them for putting the moroms in the office in the first place. Politicians are the worst and we have no one to blame but ourselves. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone..."

Read your first post
 

You were blaming GW for all the woes we are now and in the future going to enjoy. I also know there is no free lunch..especially for people that really care. They just make us pay. I don't blame the government ..at least the elected government. I blame people that vote their pocketbooks cause that is all they care about..their pocketbooks and what is it going to do for them. . And you ask are we better off now than we were 8 yrs ago. Look in the mirror. I also know there is no way to get away from all of it. No matter where you live or what you do it costs something to live...even if it is sweat equity. The people who vote for candidates such as the 2 democrats actually deserve what the get...sadly those idiots make the rest of us lose what we hold dear. I've never voted my pocketbook and don't think I ever will. Sadly I feel that too many look at the world through the same glasses you have. What is in it for me is their creedo! And with that said...I am done as greesd rules(and ruins) too many peoples lives

I think it's a foregone conclusion that our next President, no matter what party they come from , will have to raise taxes. Why?
To lower the budget deficit. For the last 8 years, no one in government has had the guts to say that we're spending more than we're taking in. It's been easier to just say 'let the next guy solve the problem'.
Some of our more cynical politicians have discovered that we're dumb enough to elect them as long as they promise us tax cuts, and to spend tons of money on pork barrel projects like the bridge to nowhere.
You can blame one party, or beaurocrats, or black helicopters if you want. The truth is, that kind of irresponsible spending goes on because we let it go on.

Jack, its been proven time and again, that rasing taxes doesn't give the gov't more money. Lowering them does. The larger problem is not them having more money, but finding ways to spend less.
In answer to a question posted ealier... yes I am better off than I was 8 yrs ago. But not just because of GW. I haven't waited to see what the gov't will do for me. I have busted my butt, worked harder, and tried to raise my children in the belief of nothing is free, there is no extra credit, and there is nothing you can't do... just things you haven't tried yet.

The biggest problem I have in the upcoming election is who I will vote for vs. who I'd have liked to vote for. I'm with Rocky on anyone but the Dem candidates, but I am really stuck on the Rep side. The guy I really felt I connected with was Fred, who has dropped out now. I really can't understand why he didn't step up more and push his beliefs. So now I look at the remainders. When I do the internet thingy that asks you questions on where you stand, it comes up with McCain then Romney. Thing is I McCain scares the hell out of me. Everything he supposedly is for, history shows the opposite. Except for his gun control stance, which so far I haven't found evidence that he has flip flopped on. Romney is for some gun control, but most of his beliefs are not mine.
So what do we do come November? Last I looked there isn't a box "none of the above, start over":rolleyes:

"Jack, its been proven time and again, that rasing taxes doesn't give the gov't more money"
I'd question that, as you can easily prove it not to be true, too. Lowering taxes to increase revenue was tried in the 80's, and resulted in a budget deficit going from 77 billion to 334 billion.
In 2000, there was a budget surplus, and taxes were lowered- and now we have a deficit again- a big one.
It'd be nice to think you can lower taxes and make the deficit go away- it'd be nice to think you can run your car on water, too, and save paying for gas. ;)
Politicians aren't stupid- they know you want to hear that budget deficits can be eliminated without raising your taxes- so they tell you that.

I don't have the figures in front of me, or the time to search right now. Perhaps someone else knows them. But if I'm not mistaken, everytime taxes have been lowered it has resulted in more income to the gov't. The problem than falls into the gov't spending more still than what they have. Thus our deficit.

PS: I know also that when I get the money vs. the gov't I tend to spend more. Thus the economy is helped.

$32,000,000.00 Deficit Reduction
 

Perhaps the candidate who can raise the most money before the November election and clear up the deficit can be president for 4 years. Opps, there I go again, thinking from my pocketbook....:p

With the economy the way it is right now, I don't think the gov't can afford to raise taxes. However, I think we need a combination of both raising taxes and decreasing gov't spending to get this nation back on track. I'm not just worried about the budget deficit, but the national debt of $9,000,000,000. What is a budget deficit of $32 billion when the nation is already in debt by $9 trillion. Just think of what the interest is on $9 trillion a year. At 5% it equates to $450 billion.

Yep, I think we need to increase taxes and decrease gov't spending to get the nation back on track.

How about social security. If we were to raise the FICA tax right now an additional 3%, social security would be solvent well into the future. I could even retire and not have to worry about whether or not I would receive social security. However, whenever Americans hear that their taxes will be increased, they have a stroke.

Yes, it is bitter medicine, but it is medicine we need. Again, it cannot be done right now because the economy would completely tank, but it does need to be done. If taxes were left to a vote by the American people, it would probably be a landslide vote for no taxes, but the gov't and the nation would be up the creek without a paddle.

In my opinion the best choice for gun owners is Huckabee and not just because he is from my home state, after all so was Slick Willy. All polls show Huckabee to be the higheswt ranking candidate against gun controll. If can not vote for him just pick a Republican. The national Democratic party is way too left wing and liberal. A vote for the Democrats is a vote to lose your guns.

I must have been busy the past couple of days, because I completely missed Tennessee's post.

The Roman Empire fell after it was rich. Right before its fall, they were handing out bread in the streets (e.g., welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, Medicaid) and they were watching the gladiators in the Coliseum (e.g., NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL).

On a battlefield, tough choices need to be made. Sometimes, you just cannot save everybody. To save the nation, that is what might have to happen. We just cannot save every poor person out there, especially if they do not want to work.

To answer your question, I am definitely better off now than I was 8 years ago, and I'll probably be better off than I am right now 8 years from now. Not because of any specific President or other politicians, but because I work hard and save my money. This entire melt down has been coming for a while. The stock market went out of control on Clinton's watch, and then it crashed. When it crashed, people took their money out of the market and put it into real estate, and just like they got caught up in the stock market, they got caught up in real estate. Guess what, the real estate market crashed too. Now, people are scared of the stock market and the real estate market. Good, that is the way it is supposed to be. There was no easy lunch 50 years ago, and there isn't one now. One of my friends invested in an IPO 8 years ago and he made enough on it to pay off the mortgage on his house, but he didn't sell. He wanted more. So, he watched the stock fall to the point where he barely made anything.

Pigs get fat (i.e., they get fed), hogs get slaughtered.

This country is going through a tough time, and I seriously doubt that it will get better any time soon. The next President might be able to make a slight difference, but he or she won't make it all. Instead of blaming this economy on Bush, how about thinking about Greenspan and Bernanke. The FED is completely independent of the President, Congress, or the Supreme Court. Maybe they should have tightened monetary policy before the stock market got way out of control. Greenspan tried to warn people back then that they merely had a paper profit. Same thing goes for the real estate market. The FED kept the rate too low for too long, and house prices soared. They soared so high that people were worried about being able to ever afford a house, so they were desperate to buy. Along come the mortgage brokers that made a quick buck and came up with new, innovative products to sell. I know too many mortgage brokers and realtors that are broke right now, but they made a ton of money over 3 or 4 years. Problem is, they didn't save a thing.

There's far more important things than guns.
The economy (including immigration), healthcare, social security all trump gun control. That's not my opinion, that's common sense fact.

To me, it's who can take care of these issues best.

Economy: I want a crackdown on employers who hire illegals giving them no incentive to be here.

Healthcare: I want national healthcare.

Social Security: It obvouisly needs to be fixed but not nessisarily in the next 10 years if other things (ie immigration and healthcare) are stressed first.

As far as taxes is concerned, I think there needs to be some reform - in particular with writeoffs and capital gains (in the form of stocks being given as income bonuses). You have multi-millionares paying far less taxes than even working class families.
I'm almost tempted to support a flat 7-10% tax with no writeoffs. That falls into the catagory that most people pay anyway and it will allow for the rich to pay their fair share without weasling out of it.

I don't think the realestate housing crisis is being handled very well. No question, homeowners and banks have both been the cause of this. The solution is not giving assistance.
If someone is not able to afford their house, they need to sell it and move into something more affordable. Bottom line.

For my view of what's best for America, it leads me to Hillary Clinton.

Said i wasn't gonna get back into this
 

BUT PBR I think you ought to take another look at some of those issues. Alright..lets look at health care. Government run healthcare will ruin the medical profession in this country. Law suits have almost done it. Ya think Gummit run health care is better...look at Canada or even England. If you want good and prompt care you'll find a private physician. Immigration is an issue that really needs to be taken care of. You are right...crack down on the employers for certain.. Also deport all illegals..now the bad thing is the dems don't want to do that. The illegals in this country donate a lot of money to the Democrats campaign funds. As far as taxes...I'll go along with you on a 7% income tax on earned income at all levels. Flat taxes really sound good...but no country really has an actual flat tax so there must be some sound reasons for not having them. The things you are talking of are things that all sound good until you look at the actual costs attributed to universal health care and such. Take a look at the SS problems. The gummit is running it and look at the problems. Look at welfare...The gummit is running it and look at the problems and the costs that escalate. We have people on welfare that have no earthly reason for being there. We really ought to have work fare for those who can work...and no BSing about ability to work. And it isn't a black issue as about 55% or more of those on welfare are not black. Time to make changes there but our politicians(especially the Dems) will not even attempt to change the rules with that. People really ought to be responsible for their own actions instead of the government bailing them out all the time. And as far as the housing industry...they build what they think people want...and most are so greedy nothing less that the best is what they want. What is wrong with starter homes...remember them?? That is what I started with.. Now as far as guns..Hillary and her ilk will attempt to take them from you for certain. The only thing that makes you and me free citizens in this country is the right to have firearms...and without them you will be nothing....other than what the king of England considered you to be in 1775...a serf who was subservient to him. And I hate to tell ya...Hillary ain't even close to being a King George. She is actually worse. So is Osama obama or what ever his name is. Sorry bud...but you really have to wake up...Oh BTW if ya think I feel the republican candidates are a whole lot better...you're wrong! But oh my..anything would be better than those 2 democrats. The dems will give you a flat tax eventually...only it will be in the 90% range and then you'll get exactly what you want..the government taking care of you from cradle to grave. Again y'all...what is wroing with us being responsible for ourselves and our own families??:rolleyes: BTW PBR...are you a Socialist or Communist?? Not an accusation...just a question :confused:

Steve Forbes was pushing the flat tax idea a number of years ago. By his estimation, it would have been about 17 %, and that sounded ok to a lot of people.
Then a few independent groups checked the math :eek:
Turns out the flat tax would have to be about 33-34 % to equal the revenue stream we have coming in now...suddenly, the flat tax idea faded away.

Hey Jack
 

The actual figure for a flat tax to equal the taxes we pay now is in the 40-45% range. Maybe more. Figure all the taxes you pay..income local federal and state..fuel taxes sales taxes property taxes.licensing fees for cars boats etc etc tolls even hunting licenses(and they are a tax) Time you get done and it gets pretty high. Oh don't forget the tax we pay on our guns and sporting items...even fishing stuff:( Now add in the costs of government run health care and other things and it's starting to get into the 50-60% range really easily.. But you do have to admit...our gummit really "loves" us!:D right to the poor house