Crossbows and Compounds
 

Being that I shoot a recurve and longbow, I was quite surprised by the response I got from some about introducing crossbows for hunting in Hawaii. One organization I got a response from was the professional bowhunters society from their "Anti-Crossbow" Chair in fact, Mark L. Scott.

The more I researched (crossbows are illegal in Hawaii right now) the more I found a lot of incongruity of their position, as well as the positions of NBEF and IHEA on the topic.

My b i t c h comes from the arguments I have received from these organizations about crossbows, without them addressing that compared to a recurve, a compound bow is no different than a crossbow for HUNTING.

Any comments on this?

Aloha... :cool:

In Michigan the bow hunters are so parinoid about the thought of cross bows becoming legal it is pathetic. The only way one can be used during archery deer season at the present time is if the user has an 80% disability in a shoulder. That takes jumping thriough hoops to get a permit.

They are legal for anyone during the firearm deer season.

The idea of letting any one over the age of 65 having the choice of using one has been brought up. You should have heard the up roar out of the archers. It was deafening.

They could care less about there elders being able to spend time in the woods as they are worried about some one else shooting THEIR deer.

MB You are so right
 

It's all about the people(bowhunters etc) wanting the woods to themselves. They just don't want to admit that some of the compounds they shoot are right up there with crossbows. They have an elitist agenda and don't care about anything or anyone else. A crossbow is just what the name implies..a type of bow... No matter what the NBEF or any other archery group may say. They have no more range than a compound or recurve...maybe less in fact and they are much slower to shoot...with way too much movement to not scare even an unalerted deer. In fact in the hands of a good archer the compound or recurve may even be more accurate. I do remember the uproar...yes there was one even though there were not anywhere near as many bowhunters...when the compound came on the scene. They were not considered legal in some states for a while. Sheesh...They shouldn't be lumped in with muzzleloaders either. Not even close to the efficiency of even a flinter:rolleyes:

There is one huge difference between a crossbow and a compound: You still have to draw a compound bow, while a crossbow is already cocked and loaded.

Bowhunters, whether compound or recurve, are often busted by game while the hunter is trying to draw the bow. A crossbow eliminates that important step.

Crossbows for elderly and/or handicap, but leave it there.

Sorry Feathermax
 

But it's still a bow and not such a good one either. The average person will still stay with a compound or recurve as they are more accurate quicker for a second(or third) shot. If you want to be elitist..then get rid of the 80% and more letoff compounds and the releases and the overdraws and sights. The trouble I have with most of the elitist bowhunters is they want to group the crossbow with a muzzleloader. There is really no comparison and most bow shooters know it. They think they will be put at a disadvantage "competing" with or against crossbow shooters. The crossbow in the hands of the average shooter is slower and probably not as accurate as the bowhunter with compounds with all the bells and whistles. As I said...it's still a bow just as a muzzleloader is just that...no matter what kind of powder or ball it shoots. If the person feels they are at a disadvantage because of the equipment they use...then he's really not such a great hunter anyway at least in his own mind. It ain't us against them you know. It is about enjoying the hunt. The more people we have on the hunting side means there is less chance of the anti's taking it away from us. We ARE a minority of the population, remember!

There's one huge difference
 

Feathermax, I don't know if you are a compound, recurve or longbow shooter, but after the research I've done on crossbows recently something struck me right between the eyes.

One of the arguments used against the crossbow is that you don't have to draw it. Well that might be true, but the same can be said of the compound. I didn't know this till recently, but most compounds are shipped today with an 80% letoff module. This means that a 60 pound compound has a holding weight of 12 pounds.

This 12 pound holding weight is something most shooters can maintain at full draw for minutes on end. Here we are talking about hunting, not target shooting, so how much different is this than a crossbow? Virtually indistinguishable in the field, especially with a wrist attached trigger release.

When you consider that I have to maintain my actual draw weight and some crossbow shooter only has to hold 12, how much different is that compared to a crossbow as far as I'm concerned? Virtually no difference at all, so I'm confused as to why compound shooters are so paranoid about crossbows? They've had a superior advantage over recurve and longbow shooters for years.

As far as I'm concerned, having crossbows in our season isn't going to make any difference to me.

Aloha... :cool:

Granted the let-off on compounds is a big advantage of a compound over a traditional bow; but, you still need to go through the motion of drawing the bow.

Compound and traditional bows share at least one common attribute: They need to be drawn at the moment of the shot. Crossbows do not. They can be drawn and locked hours in advance of the shot.

With the aid of shooting stick or a rest they function more like a rifle than a bow, heck with some crossbows I've seen the noise is even comparible to a rifle.

Not wanting crossbows involved in the archery season isn't about arrow speed, accuracy, or an unfair advantage. The technological advances in compound bows over the last decade or two has been astonishing. Once crossbows become universally incorporated into the archery season, and the market drives technological advancements in them, there's no telling where it will go.

You guys talk about compound shooters being elietist, saying that compound hunters want the woods to themselves. Well, of course one of the lures of bowhunting is the fewer number of hunters in the woods, but there is more to it than just that.

That same lure is available to everyone, at least in Wisconsin. Learn to shoot a bow (traditional or compound). If you are 65 or older, or have some disability get a crossbow permit.

my brotherinlay has cross bow permit he killed more deer with his bow hands down.
many complain you dont have to draw well you need more room to bring up a cross bow and there is more that gets in the way
a cross bow is much larger to bring it up to shoot is more movement most guys have there bow just hanging out in front of them.
kentucky and ohio let cross bow hunters hunt the same time as bow and they dont kill any more deer then a bow hunter.
I dont cross bow hunt and have no desire but to tell some one they cant hunt a certain way becouse i might not like it is hypocritical as long as it does not impact the deer or me.

Hi Feathermax... My question to you is going to be here in two parts. First, I want to compare the compound to the recurve, which is what I shoot, or longbow and the rationale for considering the compound a traditional bow.

1) This whole issue started when Bill Wadsworth and others who at the time developing a bow hunter education program through the NFAA, took the NFAA (target archery) definition of bow (hand held) and extended it to the hunting seasons. I have no idea why they excluded an already traditional piece of bow equipment from the season, but they were soon to be faced with the compound.

When the compound bow was introduced, it too created a huge outcry from traditional archers, but the definition that it was a hand held piece and I don't know what else, led to their inclusion in archery seasons. From the original letoff's of 50 to 60%, we now have bows being shipped standard with 80% letoff... 10 pounds for a 50 pound bow, 12 pounds for a 60.

When you compute the mechanical advantage of the compound over the recurve or longbow, one has a difficult time rationalizing the compound as "traditional". Add wrist bound trigger releases and you have essentially a crossbow... and no the 20 % holding weight for hunting does not pass for being "hand held". A recurve is hand held, and every pound gets heavier every second I hold it.

Drawing. You mentioned that you had to draw at the moment of the shot. This does not seem to be the case on almost anything I've seen on the outdoor channels. In so many cases I've witnessed on TV archery programs, the bow is drawn as they see the animal come into view and is held motionlessly till the animal presents itself, sometimes for several minutes. And, crossbow aside, if drawing was the issue, there would be no game harvested. We seem to figure out a way to get it done with longbows, and them compound guys seem to figure out a way to get it done themselves.

If its the ability to draw and maintain the hold that keeps the crossbow out of "HUNTING", how does one justify the compound compared to the recurve or longbow? Is it accurate to call a compound a traditional bow?

Part 2 will come next.

Aloha... :cool:

Rattus, you make the compound sound easy to hold for minutes at 80% let-off... I wonder if you have even drawn one? Even with a high let off bow, the average shooter can't hold it steady for more than a minute. With a compund, the tuning is a huge issue, and if you change anything, from your grip to how you release the arrow, the point of impact with change dramaticly!

With a cross bow, once tuned, the POI will not change, no matter how you hold it, it is a shoulder fired weapon, that can be held more steady than any standard bow.

I am not against cross bows, but I would not like to see them in archery seasons, I already know of at least 10 rifle hunters that would buy one if they were allowed. If people really want a season for them, make one in-between archery & muzzleloading seasons.

Oh as for the hunting shows seeming to hold the compound drawn forever... ever hear a editing?? I could do a show where I held the bow drawn for 30 minutes and made it look easy too... The actual draw time was probably only a minute or so. My bear hunt this spring, I had to let down several times until I was able to get a clean shot.

And BTW I shoot several hundred arrows a week, plus compete in the Bow hunter release class in 3D archery.

Hi Toxic.... Yes I've shot compounds in the past, but they were 65% let off. Here is my perspective on your answer. With a recurve, the 60 pounds I have to hold start to feel like 62,65, 70, 80 pounds in no time. I've NEVER felt that kind of pressure with a compound...

But all that aside... who cares about editing, there is NO comparison between a compound and a recurve and to have some folks complain about 20% holding weight and the crossbow to me is a little disengenuous, when those of us who shoot longbows are holding the actual weights and MUST draw when the animal is in a shooting lane where compounds have a much broader latitude... so much so in fact, that the comparison with crossbows is relevant.

Aloha... :cool:

Oh... one more thing.... since a crossbow is a bow, why would you not want to have your gun hunter friends join the archery community if they would with a crossbow?

You are not trying to keep people out of hunting with a bow are you ?

Aloha.. :cool:

Rattus, I am not trying to compare a longbow or recurve to a compound, I have shot both, and know the difference. I am ore to the point ot the differences in a cross bow vs a compund, which are to many.

One thing I have found with the different bow hunting orgs I am in.. everyone is against the cross bow in the bow only season.

It may happen one day, and it might be the day I stop bowhunting, as the reason I stared was to extend my season, and enjoy the outdoors without a bunch of people drive around like I see during rifle season. Add the cross bow in, and that might be what happens.

BTW I have recruited quite a few of my rifle hunting friends to bow hunting, and 99% of them feel the same way I do.

THe crossbow/compund argument is not something anyone will really agreee with.

I look at the cross bow as a shoulder fired short range weapon that is ready to fire at any time, where a compund is a hand drawn and held (even with high let-offs) that can't be drawn until you are nearly ready to shoot. There is a big difference right there.

Hi Toxic...

While I respect your wanting to have the forests to yourself, you cannot separate the compound from the recurve or longbow. I know that when you do that, you minimize the HUGE advantages that the compound lord over those that original benefited by an archery season.

If you belong to some the organizations out there, they say that a crossbow will end traditional archery forever... and if it wasn't so sad, I'd of burst out laughing. There is NO WAY a compound is remotely related to traditional archery. A crossbow is historically traditional, a compound isn't even close.

Ok, on your other point, I admit that their might be those so weak that they can only hold a compound for just a few seconds at 20% holding weight, but no matter what those individuals were shooting, they'd probably have difficulties when it came to the shot, even with a crossbow. We're not talking exceptions to the rule here, we're considering the norm.

So back to the norm. Compound shooters have a huge advantage in draw over the recurve.. which by the way was there first! Without recognizing that traditional archery has allowed compound shooters to benefit with 6 power optics, 80% letoff, trigger releases, 350 fps (PSE X-force) arrow speeds and the ability to hold full draw for minutes on end, by comparison, there is essentially no difference to a compound when used for hunting.

There really is no legitimate reason to keep a crossbow out of an archery season in my opinion especially when you compared it to the recurve and longbows that we shoot.

Aloha.. Tom :cool:

One point that I rarely see in discussions about crossbows is the fact that it is a super way to intruduce young hunters to the archery season. Whether or not crossbows will diminish the number of traditionalists, I can't say. For as long as I've been hunting here in Ohio, they have been legal for anyone to use during the archery season. I do know that it is a wonderful way for me to spend time with my younger siblings in the woods, and I've had the priviledge of being present when they were given opportunities at whitetails. Had they been using compounds or traditional archery gear, I don't think that they would have been proficient enough to go into the woods after live game. JMHO

gd

BTW, here's a pic of my 13 yr old brother with his first kill during the archery season

Rattus,

It is humorous that you say compound bows are no way related to traditional archery, yet include crossbows as traditional archery.

True there were crossbows in use 1000's of years ago, but the modern crossbow is no more closely related to them than a compound is to a longbow.

The true elietist in the archery world are the hardcore traditional shooters. They are the ones who look down on anyone who shoots anything different. Every year there are "traditional only" 3-D shoots. Do you ever see a "compound only" 3-D shoot?

Not likely. Every 3-D shoot I've ever shot with a compound has had stakes for traditional equipment.

Perhaps the reason so many people are against crossbows is because of compound bows. When compound bows first came to be they were more difficult to shoot than a recurve. They weren't strongly opposed because they weren't seen as a threat.

Now, if at that time, traditional shooters were presented with a new Mathews Switchback as the first compound bow you certainly would have heard the same arguements as you are hearing now regarding crossbows.

Unfortunately, there is no way to stop compound bows from becoming more technologically advanced. Who knows what the current crossbow will become if it were to gain universal popularity.

Hi Feathermax... :)

Actually a modern crossbow is pretty much exactly the same as it used to be. Materials are a little different, the trigger is more like a rifle trigger instead of ticklers, but operate to unlock a sear in pretty much similar fashion. The stock has been lengthened to accomodate a more comfortable buttstock. Otherwise pretty much business as usual. That they borrow compound technology with wheels on some, doesn't make them the innovator, but makes them opportunistic to use new technology, but there are some pretty typical crossbows like the excaliber that use a basic limb... as they have for a thousand years.

Arguments against compounds from what I gather, were actually pretty loud at first, but because of a decision to accept the rational that it was hand held, well the rest is history... and yet history should have accepted the crossbow.

Back to the original questions... you cannot talk about crossbows without talking about recurves. You cannot talk about recurves without talking about compounds. You can't ignore those comparisons because that is what happened with the compound's introduction. The crossbow only brings a marginal level of additional holding power over the compound, and in neither case can that be ignored from comparisons with the longbow or recurve.

In the 1500's, crossbows were in fact used for hunting, so to say that they are traditional for hunting is entirely accurate.

Aloha... :cool:

in my corner of PA here, the game commission will allow whatever is feasible to smash as many deer as possible, a few friends of mine that i waterfowl with got into the crossbow thing simply because it takes alot less to get good with a crossbow than it does with a bow. for the most part i am still happy to just have them in the woods with me however, i have seen a few things that make me say hmmm, walking deer going down like they got hit by dump trucks after taking a bolt through both shoulders, deer springing up as we walk into our stands that get whacked with a rifle like snap shot, one of my buddies fired three bolts in his life ten minutes before harvesting his first deer with the crossbow, a near perfect shot i might add. although we all enjoy the game, these friends dont feel the pride or brag that they got an archery deer, we call them arrow rifles. what really set the crossbow apart for us all is the fact that 12 deer among 5 guys died on crossbow drives in about a week last year, you guys do that with the bow? part of me says live and let kill, part of me says if you crossbow the buck of a lifetime and brag about your archery kill, you might as well snag a 28 inch rainbow in the tail and put it on the wall. always a hot topic this crossbow
kt

Another tibit to add. Anyone can pick up a crossbow and shoot it once it's sighted in. Slap a scope on it get it sighted in and hand it over to your friend and I'm sure they can kill a deer with it.

You can't do that with any bow. Compounds are set for each person's draw and anchor point, plus take lots of practice. I switched over to a recurve this year hoping to make it a little more "challenging". It took me a little bit to learn to shoot instinctive and that's being a novice at archery for the better part of 20 years. I could hand either bow over to a friend who's never shot it and I guarentee they'd miss a deer target at 20 yards, but hand them a corssbow that's sighted in and they'd probably make a killing shot every time.

No biggie I guess, but where's the pride in that? You earn your animal with a bow. You practice for months on end, tune it and have to have patience and knowledge of where and when to draw and release.

Pick up a crossbow, slap the corsshairs on him at 20 and pull the trigger. Doesn't trip my trigger, so I wouldn't choose to shoot one... I still won't knock it, just the same as I wouldn't want people knockin me for shooting deer out past 700 yards with my long range rifle rig. Just a different way to hunt them. I think they'd need to create a different season for them though. One nice thing about archery is that I rarely see hunters in the woods on public ground. Allow crossbows here and I'm sure I'd see a lot more weekend warriors and may have to look for private ground, or even post my own to ensure my quiet time.

I doubt it would ever come to that, but I sure do enjoy archery. It's my favorite time of the year, especially b/c I get the feeling that I'm the only one in the woods. Yup, there's always that feeling of not wanting to let go or share a season you already have. Same way I felt when they created an early muzzleloader season right smack in the middle of archery. Even youths and seniors can hunt with rifles. Deer are so bugged out after that week it takes 2 weeks for them to calm down. I hit it hard the first week and the last and let the rest for the muzzleloader hunters and small game hunters. Don't know what I'd feel if I had to share my only free 2 weeks with a bunch of crossbow hunters.

No doubt I'll see it happen in my lifetime here in PA though, so I'm sure I'll just grin and bare it.

I do agree with gd though. If we had a crossbow season and with the new youth mentoring season, I'm sure I'd have my 4 yr old shooting one already getting ready for about when he's 6 or 7. I can't wait to bring him out and whack a deer. Some kids can't pull much more than 40 pounds at age 12...me I was shooting 65 pounds at age 11 and killed my first deer with a bow at 12 at 8 yards. I'm sure I wasn't the norm though. Still remember it like it was today. Jennings Unistar (sure don't miss that heavy club!), 125 gr Kolpin Twister broadheads, deer ran 20 yards and dropped...talk about exciting

Hi KT, Petey... :)

I don't shoot a crossbow so I'm not able to answer your questions with any facts, but lets say that you can shoot a crossbow out of the box, or even your compound out of the box, in either case if all bows could be shot out of the box on deer, the fact still remains, the advantages of 80-85% letoff versus the stick bow is of huge magnitude. That a crossbow is a few % more is really sort of irrelevant in overall scheme of things.

However, 12 deer and 5 hunters comes down to one of two things only.. the shooters were prepared, and or you found a lot of deer... or actually maybe both.

Hunting is still hunting, even with Petey's 700 yard rig... it's still hunting.

If you got more hunters in the season due to crossbows, how can that hurt? Hunter numbers are declining daily so this is a good thing I think, to be able to recruit. One thing though, for groups like the PBS and the New York Bowhunters to cry out that a crossbow is the greatest single threat to "traditional archer" in existence today is a ludicrous statement. Crossbows are in fact VERY traditional.... :)

I'd love to go hunting with a crossbow no matter just to try it out. And if I shoot something of real bragging rights, why in the world wouldn't I be braggin the huge whatever I shot just because I shot it with a crossbow? If I snagged a world record by its tail... am I going to not claim it? Heck no... there is nothing about a crossbow that should allow anyone not to proud of their accomplishments. It doesn't shoot further, faster, or with any advantage over a compound and their 6 power optics and all either, so to me... an accomplishment is worthy... even with a crossbow.

Aloha... :cool:

rattus, as i said, i dont fault the crossbow shooter, but until you do it, understand i exploit every hunting opurtunity i get, all i am saying is no matter what you throw at a deer to kill it, a bullet a broadhead or buckshot, we are talking different stuff, none are even, including a broad head off a bow compared to that off a crossbow, bowhunting has been my life since i can draw a kill weight, they are not the same. this is ten years of theory, not that i see many more archers, i do see those new cross bow dudes killing their first quicker

bottom line, if a compound and a crossbow were the same and a crossbow was not legal, why would any body capable of a draw want to shoot a crossbow?????
when we can answer that question i will except that crossbow shooters are on par, or equal to the 3 deer i spent 3 months trying to kill until then, unless we can find a way to say compounds, crossbows, rifles and muzzleloaders are the same, i still dont want to hear that your crossbow deer is an archery kill.
once again a very hot topic, i love you all, very volatile conversation can open a big can of worms here.

Hey... worms are great bait for bluegills..
 

Hi Kt... I can certainly appreciate your comment... I know... the however... :)

Yes... well you made one comment that needs some clarification for me. You mentioned in your last post, "no matter what you throw at a deer to kill it, a bullet a broadhead or buckshot, we are talking different stuff, none are even, including a broad head off a bow compared to that off a crossbow, and here is where we have a difference of opinion.

A crossbow has a typical advertised speed of 245 to about 320 fps. Others with heavier weights have speeds up to 350 fps, right along with our compound bows of today. In the speed department, compounds and crossbows are equals.

Kinetic energy is based upon arrow speed. Kinetic energy plays a very small role in archery, whereas sharp broadheads plays a much largher role in the harvest of game.

A compound with a 425 grain arrow and a crossbow with a 425 bolt at 320 fps, will have identical kinetic energy values.

There are no differences in the hunting environment between the compound and the crossbow.

Aloha... :cool:

I just happen to stumble along and read this topic, I must say interesting. I do not think no matter where you throw crossbows in if you could hunt with them that you would please anybody or everybody. I also must say I'd throw them in with bowhunting versus throwing them in the Muzzle Loader hunt.

Make another season? The way things are going where do you stop? Let's kick off with traditional archery, then the compound season, then the youth, then the old season, then the crossbow season, then the rifle season, then the muzzleloader season, then the . . . you get the picture, might as well make a spear season while we're at it . . .

Would not another option be to run the season 4 months long, and you get one tag and you can use whatever weapon you want? It would offer a period of time ample for anybody to use whatever they want, and I would hope keep the pressure and overcrowding down? Well, one drawback is the one tag deal, maybe make it two, and after that you gotta hunt with your camera, I dunno.

Anyway, just a little bit of my perspective on the take, JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

P.S. At least you all got something to bicker about, Bow and Arrow hunting of any sort is not allowed where I'm at. Hey, that might be a good thing, 'cause there ain't no bickering about this or that bow or weapon!!

rattus you are right that statement did need clarification, in that respect yes they are even, the terminal performance is very similar. what i meant to imply was the techniques are different but that is what this thread is all about.
i dont have any more counter arguments against the crossbow,
but if you get one you have got to try a pack of those crimson talon broadheads built just for the crossbow, my buds all shoot them, fired once they are often garbage because of the spiral blades, but i have seen some stuff involving them that is just not G rated. how ever, damn are they pricey, essentially 11 dollars a broadhead, not that you cant put a price on a clean kill.
they must be great because the first time i shot one off a crossbow i hit a bullseye at 30 yds! ;)
kt

Hi Dom, Here in Hawaii on Public Lands we cannot legally use the crossbow either. This is something that we're working on right now.

Hi KT... I'm not driven by the crossbow and am not thinking about getting one anytime soon. I've gotten more interested in this more probably by the negative comments I hear about the crossbow compared to what I see as "facts" about their use.

I'd probably be using wood arrows if left to my own devices more likely..... :D

Aloha... :cool:

Nice looking boy and I'd be happy to say, I'd be proud of my harvest no matter how it happened.... :)

Congratulations on getting them interested in hunting at a young age like you did.

Aloha... Tom :cool:

facts, that is a term like "independent study" when it comes to these things take the words of blue collar hunters (a.k.a. kt) because facts are largelly paid for, for instance blue collar hunter is the reason i still shoot muzzy's. cheap and standing the test of time. Facts on the other hand favor broadheads that seek vital arteries, and expand when they hit flesh and nothing else, made of some alloy that sounds impressive. my buck of a lifetime or my life are not to be decided by devices that sound impressive can always count on this site for both sides of a story. dont get me wrong i have lost 3 deer in 4 years with a bow, my new comer friend with the crossbow has never missed or lost a deer. i find myself thinking i should explore the topic just to be a more humane hunter, i see both sides. here is where it is...... "Do what is legal and what satisfies your personal goals" its nothing but taxidermy from there,
kt

:D :D :D

Your facts about broadheads seek vitals and arteries is in fact... right on, regardless of method. You last statement hit it right on too...

The more I look into crossbows the more interesting they become... especially building one in the old style... now that would be a gas.... only about 220 to 240 fps though... but what the heck.... KT's rule #1 "Your facts about broadheads seek vitals and arteries is in fact... "

:D :D :D

Aloha.. Tom :cool:

crossbow vs. compound
 

i feel the crossbow has a valid place in the hunting community and should be allowed; not as ARCHERY equipment and seasons per se, but in GENERAL seasons or perhaps in a season(s) of their own. they also are permitted for handicapped persons which i believe to be fair and acceptable.

the reason? the crossbow is NOT RESTRAINED MANUALLY by the operator as is the traditional archery bow.

i, myself, find crossbows, ungainly, heavy, awkward to manuever, difficult to ready for the shot, and the ones i've used, were very noisy at release...but...that's me. if another wishes to use...by all means...feel free to do so.

i found they're no more accurate or 'faster' than the mainstream compound of today and don't have any other advantage other than being able to be restrained (fully drawn, read for the shot) indefinitely with no effort on the operators part.

Any time we can get someone off the couch, EDUCATED and introduced to the outdoors it is a plus. Crossbow, compund bow, recurve, etc. the important thing is that people get involved. Whether it is during gun season, bow season or primitive weapons people need to be involved in our great sport. I consider myself lucky in that when I go into the woods on a weekday there have been several times when i was the only one on 55,000 acres of public land and not that many more people were out on the weekends.. Looking back now there was plenty of room for other hunters. If we dont attract others to our sport then the public lands are going to dry up and we are going to be like Texas where you have to pay 500 bucks to go out and sit in a shooting house to kill a deer, There will be no more scouting, shed hunting, hanging tree stands etc because there will be no place left to do it. P.S. I am not knocking places that offer hunts and especially Texas I realize that people work for a living and sometimes plan a vacation and have a limited amount of time. We need to get people involved period.

I got my first crossbow this summer simply because I caint pull the same 55lbs that I used to could on my compund nor can I keep it held fer any length of time.
I think there is a big difference tween a man that can pull 75lbs on compound bow and someone such as myself who aint 5ft tall and wont weigh 100lbs soakin wet.
I'll quote Don here...

Don is right, they are heavy, awkward and mine is noisy at release even after the silencer kit I put on it.
Also Don mentioned that the only difference tween a crossbow and a compound is that the crossbow is always at a "ready-to-fire" state. The big difference to me is that I can pull it! Ya'll have no idea how big of a difference it makes pullin a compound vs a crossbow.
It's different fer guys that one day finds out he caint pull 80lbs no more...so what?? Go down to 60 or even Lilred's lbs...55. You can still kill deer.
For me, other women, younguns and seniors & people with disibilites....it means the chance to bowhunt with everybody else. Crossbow huntin is now legal here....and I am glad.
So are the other 35 women that is huntin the forest this year on a 2 day women only bow hunt with me. Most are younger or older and just can't hold a compound.
I think ya'll might be a lil more sympathetic if ya'll were in "our" shoes. I would not feel sympathetic fer a braun young man huntin w./ a crossbow.

I've got 2 stick bows,a recurve,a compound,and a crossbow at the ranch.They all have their pros and cons.
While I have taken countless animals with my old compound(30% let off?),I have never hunted with my crossbow.
I like my recurve for stalking because of the lite weight and simplicity.I find the stick bows too long for hunting purposes but my son and I love to porcupine bales with them.
Unless I missed it,no one mentioned that anyone can shoot a crossbow with little or no practice/training.
A friend of mine used to come out on weekends and target shoot with me.At that time I shot every day.It was literally 3 bolts before he was makin a contest of it,and had never even fired a rifle before.It was an easy thing to put the dot on the target at a known range and squeeze the trigger.
oh and you can't shoot a vertical bow out the window of a vehicle like you could a crossbow...

there are pros/cons to all forms of hunting...but it is all hunting and the more folks involved the better off we all are.
I say"to each his own"



A friend of mine that runs a sporting goods store once told me that most of the compound bows he sold got traded in the next season for muzzleloaders...

food for thought...

y'know...I think the" how "you hunt is far more important than what you hunt with.

as long as you hunt ethically,with due respect all around(animal,others,weapon)and harvest the animal humanely,I don't think what you harvest it with matters a great deal...


if you took your deer first swing with a stone club and it didn't suffer...swing away!