low recoil, BIG punch
 

I know a young shooter who would like to start big game hunting but would like a gun with more punch(enough to hunt black bear) than a .243 or 6mm. I am new to shooting aswell so I dont know. If you know of such a rifle please post a reply.
P.S I live in Canada so it must be larger than .23 caliber.

Lots of calibers that fit that bill!!!

30.06
.270
25-06


List goes on and on!! Best if you can get him somewhere where he can try a few different sizes on for size....where in Canada are you??

new shooter
 

Minihuntur,

I have 3 grandsons in the 12-15 age range. The oldest will hunt cow elk this fall for the 2nd time. First time around he used my 6mm and missed a shot. This year he will use either my 7mm-08 or a new 260 (if my gunsmith has it ready in time).

If you don't reload, your choice for the young hunter might depend on availability of ammo in your area. The 7mm-08 is becoming more popular but ammo may not be available everywhere. If this is a problem, you won't go wrong with a 270, 308 or 30-06.

Last thought is that Jack O'Connor gave his approval on the 243/6mm for black bear. The current magnumitus fad is probably with us forever but the milder, standard calibers can do the job too.

270man

I recommend .270, 7x57 calibers, and a lot of practice. Don't start him out shooting too much at one time, but over time increase the number of shots at the range or practice time. Can even use a Past recoil pad on his shoulder to start with. Animals with thicker coats often soak up the blood making for hard to follow trails. You owe it to the bear a caliber to do the job, and nothing more disappointing than not finding a shot animal, JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

You mentioned you have a young shooter, but you didn't mention their stature or frame. I've been teaching Hunter Ed for 15+ years and I've encountered too many kids, girlfriends, fiancee's, etc., where their Dad, boyfriend, husband started them out on a rifle that's too "big" and/or has too much recoil for them. Examples of this would be a 12-14 year old kid ( or girlfriend ) shooting a 30-06.

To answer your question...........IF your new shooter is a young adult and is of a medium or larger build, then the 270/30-06 size caliber would probably be fine, however I'm careful about recommending starting anyone on that class of cartridges. Some do fine and some do not.

IF your new shooter is of small to medium build.........I most definitely recommend something like a 7mm08 or a .260. They will learn to shoot without being uncomfortable with the gun. Over the years I've encountered many shooters who are shooting too much gun and don't enjoy shooting whatsoever...therefore are not accurate hunters as well.

We have alot of black bear around here and any of the calibers mentioned in the posts will do just fine for bear and deer so best wishes with your decision(s). Are you able to borrow several different rifles of these calibers to have the shooter try out for themselves ?


Regards, Vic

Minihuntur

All good advice,i.e.: .270,7x57,.308,or 7mm-08,however,IMO
6.5x55 is an excellent cartridge (can be loaded up or down 92-165),no felt recoil,and flat shooting.
Good luck with your choice.

jplonghunter

6.5x55 Swede

Wide selection of bullets. Flat shootin, hard hittin, deep penetration and low recoil.

One catch, you gotta reload. No good factory ammo out there. :rolleyes:

260 Rem is close.....

I'd like to elaborate on EmB's excellent point a little bit. This question is asked multiple times on multiple forums every year. Usually overlooked in the ensuing discussion is the fact that the FIT of the firearm to a young and/or small-statured shooter is at least as important as the caliber. If the shooter cannot hold the rifle comfortably and properly, he/she will be inaccurate and will likely be punished far worse by whatever recoil is present than would be the case with a properly fitting rifle.

The 7x57 mauser and the 6.5x55 Swedish ( or Swede ) are old cartridges that are excellent for young or small framed shooters, however....as mentioned above as well - you almost need to be a reloader or know someone that is to shoot these calibers. There are factory loads available.....but not everywhere.

The more recent ( and similar ) cartridges to these are ; "7x57/7mm08 REM" and the "6.5x55/260 REM".

Regards, Vic

Aim To Maim has a very good point. Stock fit is definitely a major factor.
The other thing to keep in mind is, you can't get around the physics: the heavier the bullet, and the faster you push it, the more recoil.
Rifle weight is a HUGE factor, too. A cartridge that is a low recoil pussycat in an 8 pound rifle becomes a nasty kicker in a 5 pound rifle. IMO, that is a good reason to avoid the lightweight models for beginners, even though it seems to make sense for some of the smaller shooters.

To reply to some of your questions, he is a medium build 11 year old weighing 100lbs. Also I live in Saskatchewan.

Minihuntur

Well then...........

I suggest a short action caliber such as the 7mm08, the 260 or the old timers 7x57 mauser or the 6.5 Swede in a standard sporter or similar rifle.

Anything else will likely start him flinching. He can move up to a larger caliber as he grows.

I didn't ask before......do you have a preference for the style of action ; bolt action, lever action, pump action, etc. ? This could also influence your choices.

Regards, Vic

Some of the lever actions are quite small and easy to handle....

I have shot a 44-40 and didnt think it was much of a heavy hitter, and should have plenty of punch for black bear and deer....

What is the hunting area like that you hunt in?? Since you say bears Im guessing woodsy??

That can also help influence the caliber.....if you are hunting speed goats on open prairie, you will want something that is fairly flat shooting......

Another consideration is that remington makes reduced recoil loads for a bunch of cartridges, both short and long action length. The .260, .270, 7mm-08, 308, and 30-06 are all on that list. He can start out using the light loads, and as he grows up, can eventually use the full-power stuff.

gd

It's quite likely that a youth model with a shorter length of pull would be in order here. Failing that, you could always shorten the stock of a standard size rifle.

Lots of good info in the above replies.

I'd also suggest looking into a 6.5x55 or a 7x57.
Some areas the ammo may be hard to find in factory loadings, but if you have time to order some in, reload/handload or know someone who can, it is quite worth it.

Another good choice, _if_ you can find one, would be a bolt or lever in .300 savage. Shouldn't be hard at all to find ammo in that calibur in most areas.

I have both a 6.5x55 and a 7x57, and consider them my most useful, all-around rifles. However, to get full performance out of them, you have to find a way to load to modern pressures. At modern pressures, the 6.5 is really outstanding, and the 7x57 is the ballistic twin of the 270, which is a fine cartridge.

So I think the answer depends a little bit on your reloading situation.

If convenience is an issue, you won't go wrong with a 260, 270, 7mm-08, or 257 Roberts. If you're an experienced reloader, the 6.5x55 probably can't be beat. As nearly as I can tell, the 6.5x55 beats out the 25-06 in every way except ammunition availability.

A psot up in AAG prompts me to suggest this overlooked option: a lever-action in 7-30 Waters. More punch than a .30-30 with less recoil. The rifle is short, compact and with definite "kid" appeal.

You could put a low-powered scope or even a re-dot sight on it and he'd be set. Safety-wise, it's a very good design, and you can look over from yards away and see that it isn't cocked while he carries it.

Something to consider.

He'd be in close quarters, He doesn't like levers. he wants pronghorn too. he's dont know the first thing about handloadin'.
Minihuntur

Just food for thought, I assume it's legal to bait bear up there? If so and he shoots a 243/6mm comfortably and can hit a clorax bottle evrerytime at 50yds, a headshot blackbear don't go anywhere, even the biggest! If he misses, it usually is a clean miss also, as not to have it run off and die unrecovered? Like I said just food for thought!

NO way gorilla, his firearm safety instructor told him this story and he will go for vitals every time: "I shot 2 deer, 140 yds., same spot, straight through the heart, 40 yds max before they dropped, my buddy, though, tries to be a hero and take head shots. His deer ran 20 yds and dropped, but when we got up to it, it jumped up and ran for 1/2 a mile, 4 hours later, this guy's uncle circled around and shot it and it finally died." It makes less work if shoot for the kill zone. Anyone who reads this better think twice before being a "hero" like this guy.
Minihuntur

Not to critize, but if you can't hit a bear in the head with a high powered rifle at 30-50yds, something is wrong? But a bow that's a different ball game you always try to double lung a bear, always!

Minihunter, I hope you didn't take that last comment the wrong way? I know it sounded like i may have been putting down his instructor, but that isn't the case, because he's 100% right! I was just talking from experience, I've taken 19 year old guys bear hunting and told them what I said about the head shot. So far as long I'm confident that they can make that shot, get it on! But we're talking 30-70yds tops but I've hit them over 100! The best part about it is, their chin hits the ground, that's it! I'm no hero, that'ss for sure!

being hes 100lbs i recomend no bigger than a 25 caliber rifle.

i was about his size and started this great sport with a 270 in model 700. i tell you what this rifle was my downfall it caused a big flinch that took years to work out of me..;

ive got little girl now and shel start with either a 257 roberts or a 6mm. but thats still aways off.

ive shot lots of rifles over the years most all in the 2506 to 3006 cliber range. these rifles all have a stout recoil exscept for the 2506.

the 2506 is my go to all around varmit bigame rifle. and will continue to be for years to come. i also have 3006 and 270 these get pulled out the closet only a few times a year to make sure theyre sited in or do some test load when im bored.

the 2506 has seen thousands of rounds. and has made shooter out of me. i now religusly reload for all my calibers and this one seees sometimes 100rds just testn loads. the other two i cant stand to shoot at the bench.

Evan


ps there

is enough factory ammo fir the 257 rob or the 2506 to fill your need from mice to deer

I agree with the posters who recommended the 7x57 (also known as the 7mm Mauser). While I love the 270, I believe the question was of a caliber to use on black bear in Canada -which means woods shooting and I'm just not sold on the 130 gr. (of the 270) as suitable for woods shooting. I'm not saying it can't be used -it's just that I prefer heavier weight bullets. The 7mm Mauser has bullet weights up to 154 gr and 160 gr. loadings the last time I looked (some years back) If you're not a reloader, then outfits like Superior and Hornady will sell 20 round boxes in the indicated loads. I used a 154 gr. 7mm load on a black bear at about 80 yards in Ontario's Nipissing District and he collapsed at the first shot -( the first one I ever shot so I remember the exact details!) :)

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. The penetration is phenomenal. In fact, it's what the 7x57 has been famous for in Africa for decades. Recoil is minimal. ( Being an old dinosaur myself, I can tell you that I remember when the 7mm was referred to as a "lady's gun". This "lady" was glad he carried it for black bear)

Nobody has mentioned the .35 Remington yet. It pokes a bigger hole than most any "light" recoiling cartridge will. My 12yr old niece has fired and enjoyed shooting mine.

You might wanna consider a "Handi-Rifle"they're made by H&R and sold as New England Firearms.
a solid single shot that can be fitted with a multitude of barrels ranging in caliber from .22 hornet to .500 s&w(take a shotgun barrel too).
barrels are between $87-$116 depending on caliber and you can buy one any day of the week at Wholesale sports in Saskatoon for under $300(new).
you can get him a varmint barrel for his b-day...and that antelope caliber for xmas.

nothing better than startin a youngster with a single.the one shot/kill idea hits home better and you never rush the first thinkin bout the next.

I've got one in .204 Ruger and its a great value in a usin iron.

Hey, Brother Rockeye, It's good to see someone else from my neck o' the woods.
Minihuntur:D ;)

Hi All,

The original and standard weight of bullet for the 7mm Mauser was 173 grains and it's still available. heck even remington make a 173 grn bulelt for handloading although it's of a spitzer style rather than round nose like the original. Not sure who loads this weight in the US but RWS certainly does in their H-Mantle range and it's a really effective round. I would be surprised if Norma didn't offer a 173 grain load as well.

I think something like a 7mm Mauser would be excellent as would the 6.5x55 and dependign on bulelt weight and velocity the .308 is not to be sneezed at. In fact for deer the 125 grain factory loads would be fine at sensible ranges and a 165 grain laod for bear once he has got used to the rifle and recoil. Too much bench shooting where recoil is felt more is a mistake plus you need to practice field positions when shooting.

Thanks
 

Thanks for all yer help guys, hes not that into the internet but he's short shot .303 now, thats what he got too, thanx.
Minihuntur

I would keep him with a short action and something with some room for him to grow into, say maybe a .308. If factory loads are to much you could reduce them a bit from the bench. I was about that age when dad gave me a 308, and its enough for a black bear, I hate to be under gunned....

Everything counts and it all adds up. Anyone can get hurt by recoil, muzzle blast or the scope.

There are various ways that the recoil or force can hurt us. One way is from crushing the flesh and a soft pad is wanted.

Far too many guns have hard butt plates and most of the old recoil pads are way too hard.

Then there is the force that zooms the body backwards and might even cause the gun to jump from the youths hands. All this is a proportion to the weight of the gun, the force and the size and personality of the youth.

To get more specific say away from old 30-06's! The cartridge is much too powerful for small kids and most of them are old guns with way too much drop at the comb. A straight butt stock will kick much less than one with drop.

An expample of the best stock, in my view, is the Kimber 8400 Montana what with its minimal drop at the comb and soft Decelerator pad. This rifle is for example only for its stock and pad design. The rifle itself is chambered for cartridges that are too large.

As to cartridges the 243 might be a place to start.

The gun must fit the youth. A short LOP must be done or who could hit anything with a gun thats too long. Finally I like a three position safety so the kid can unload the gun, keep the bolt handle down and be on safe. All three are necessary.

You want to work your way up first with a .22 and always with ear protection. Make sure most of all that the kid never gets hurt. Then with reduced loads and finally with a load that will not kick the most.

Ruger has a compact model 77. We know autoloaders kick less but I would not want my kid to start with one and he did not. My son started with a Kimber 84M Classic 7mm-08 with light handloads and even now at age 30 he shoots the 120 gr Ballistic Tip.

Ruger Compact

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...oducts/48L.jpg

He read your post mikey, he's not a little kid, and doesnt like you saying that, anyway, he got a .303 brit. lee enfield which fits well and dont kick too much.
Minihuntur