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Results of gun care product evaluation
We all want to use goods quality products on our guns, bows, fishing gear, knives, autos, hunting and lake front gear and like you I’m not a fan of letting things get rust on them nor am I a fan of items wearing out prematurely. To protect my investment in gear, I began searching for rust inhibitors and lubrication solutions to make the maintenance of my gear as effective and efficient as possible but I understand that neglect is the primary cause of corrosion and wear and we must be diligent but having a corrosion inhibitor and lubricants aiding us in meeting those goals is helpful.
The problem is there are so many products on the market all making claims of how well they perform. Who do you trust? What is one to believe? Online searches turned up all manner of comparisons, reviews and evaluations of a couple of products here and a few more there but no large sampling of a really long list of products all compared at the same time. So that’s what I set out to do to determine for myself which product I want to use as a rust inhibitor and lubricant. Along the way I will also look at water displacement (a common claim) as well as reactions with non-metal components. The attributes I set out to evaluate are: Water displacer: Many of the products I purchased for this evaluation make claims in regards to being a water displacer or that they have water displacing properties. Its an interesting claim but it got me to wondering why I should care?? I thinks its great if a product displaces water does it adds to a products worth or usefulness?? We all know that moisture is everywhere from fog to rain to snow to humid environments to warm to cold condensation as well as sweat and dew. so perhaps the water displacement claims are meant to drive us to their products with promises of improved protection so I plan to investigate that claim. Smell/odor: Because my primary passion is bowhunting followed by gun deer hunting, scent/odor is important to me. If a product stinks to high heaven I am less likely to use it even if it offers other benefits. Gauging odor is pretty subjective since something that smells bad to me might be appealing to the next person. I will evaluate odor as best as I can. Lubrication: How well does the product lubricate? And in what state, meaning does it reduce friction better in its wet form or in a dry form after its wiped away/allowed to dry? If it offers the most friction reduction in a wet form but that wet form is a magnet for dust, dirt and carbon, then its counterproductive because that wet lube becomes a gritty sludge. If it can be applied, wiped dry and still reduce friction (while fighting rust) that would be preferred. I will investigate lubrication. Compatibility: How safe is it for plastics, rubber and gun finishes and coatings? That a fair question since these products are expected to be applied to guns, bows, knives, fishing gear, etc that are composed of a variety of non-metallic materials and finishes/coatings. A product that displaces water and inhibits rust is great but if it melts your plastic and rubber and destroys the finish on your gun, its destined for the trash can. I plan to investigate compatibility as well. Corrosion inhibition: That’s the primary reason for this evaluation. I plan to investigate these products compared to one another for their ability to delay the formation of corrosion. The goal here is to find a product that does the best job at inhibiting corrosion, reducing friction, does not harm plastic, rubber or finishes, displaces waters and does not force me to wear a gas mask to apply. A product that can do all of the above may not exist but I’m willing to find out. The next question was "Which products?" Until now, my stable of gun/bow/tool care products was pretty small. Like most sportsmen I had my "go-to" products because that is what my local retailer carried. I hadn't thought much beyond availability and then fell into a comfort zone with those products. I took to the web and did a search as well as asking for suggestions on a couple of web forums and learned many of these products have passionate followers even if I had never heard of them. Was I missing out on a superior product???? The next step in the process was to take out a 2nd mortgage and buy up as many products as I could get my hands on and then wait for the brown truck to become a daily fixture in my driveway. The products I will be evaluating (in no particular order) are G96 synthetic CLP http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps92e99f05.jpg Eezox gun care http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psebad29fc.jpg M-Pro 7 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psd6e23c96.jpg Gun Slick Gun Seal Rust preventative http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps59d66fa0.jpg Breakfree CLP http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7a8bb65c.jpg Breakfree Collector http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps524952c8.jpg Frog Lube http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4da3706d.jpg Ballistol http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps2cfd511d.jpg Gunzilla http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse603e76b.jpg RIG #2 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7363228f.jpg |
Hoppe's No. 9 Solvent
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc6519dd5.jpg Hoppe’s Lubricating oil (with weatherguard) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psdaea3a4e.jpg Hoppe’s MDL (Moisture Displacing Lubricant) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps66d248ac.jpg Hoppe’s Elite gun oil http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse7c3ae94.jpg Archoil AR4400 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps372d4cdb.jpg Ogre HP gun oil http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1b3afe5b.jpg Gibbs http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse7c71eb1.jpg CorrosionX http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps540692bf.jpg Kano Kroil http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psacac1582.jpg Silicone Grease http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6d6a416b.jpg WD-40 (blue and yellow can) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6018f2f2.jpg WD-40 specialist Corrosion inhibitor http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6a98c321.jpg ATF http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps8caa5494.jpg Fluid Film Rust and corrosion protection http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psea6921dd.jpg Max Professional Super Lubricant http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4890bae7.jpg CRC 3-36 corrosion inhibitor http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps08a9ac4d.jpg 3-In-One oil http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps21ed226b.jpg Pennzoil synthetic oil http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps281b322a.jpg Minwax paste wax http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps876d8c5d.jpg Atsko Silicone water guard spray http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5343463b.jpg |
Here is the entire ensemble of products used I this evaluation.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps79aac764.jpg Here are the products marketed and sold for gun care/maintenance. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa3ddacc3.jpg You probably recognize many of the products in the lineup. Most are dedicated products marketed to the sportsman for this purpose but some are products that over the years have been used by sportsmen that are not necessarily marketed for this purpose. One such example is simple paste wax and Kroil which were recommended to me by people living in coastal environments. Another is WD 40 and 3 in one oil which have been used by everyone that owns metal since the 1940's. These are not marketed as a gun care products but since they are used by so many in that regard, they were thrown into this evaluation for comparison sake. All products were purchased from either local retailers, online or at gun shows with the exception of the Pennzoil motor oil. I secured that from the local speedy oil change location and only a small amount for this evaluation. First up is an evaluation of Smell/odor: Because my primary passion is bowhunting followed by gun deer hunting, scent/odor is important to me. If a product stinks to high heaven I am less likely to use it even if it offers other benefits. Gauging odor is pretty subjective since something that smells bad to me might be appealing to the next person. I will evaluate odor as best as I can. While this evaluation might seem firearms-centric I’m hoping to come away with products that I will also use during bowhunting trips on things like my bow, broadheads, knives, pruning saws, treestands, climbing sticks, camera arms and other items I take afield as well as my firearms and hunting gear that I want to protect from corrosion. For that reason, odor/scent is something I pay close attention to. Some of these products have an odor that is present straight from the container that dissipates quickly after drying while some products continue to smell long after application. A strong odor even if its pleasant is still a strong odor and something I hope to avoid in the products I use. I created the following ranking for odor. No odor Mild odor Strong odor And then any notes about the particular odor. I wrote down the first thing that popped into my head after taking a wiff of each product. See the data below. **NOTE**This exercise may not account for much once you factor in the dissipation factor once dry and the scant amount left after wiping off the excess product but since I had to use each product I noted the smells and recorded them. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3be3fbad.jpg Next up in this evaluation is the water displacement claim. In regards to water displacement, the implied message is that the product, if applied to a wet gun/bow/tool will drive out (displace) the moisture and then protect the metal from moisture and corrosion. This is a pretty easy claim to prove or disprove since the very definition of displacement occurs when an object that is introduced to water, pushes the water out of the way and takes its place (displacing the water). If a product simply floats on top of water, it does not “displace” it. If the product doesn’t break the surface tension of water, penetrate and displace the water to reach metal parts, then for the purposes of this evaluation It won’t be counted as a water displacer. In contrast, those products that break the surface tension of water, displace the water and penetrate it will be counted as water displacers. This will be done with the raw product directly from their container and NOT the dried or cured product after the propellant, carriers or distillates evaporate or dissolves. The process of evaluating water displacement is as follows. 1. A container is partially filled with water 2. Raw product (from its original container) is introduced to the water filled container. 3. The product is observed and noted as to whether it displaced (penetrated, broke the surface tension) of the water or whether it simply rested on top of the water. It should be noted that the ability of a product to displace water does not automatically imply that it will inhibit rust or provide lubrication. A rock or brick (if placed in a container of water) will displace water but will offer no corrosion protection or lubrication. Simply because a product can actually displace water does not automatically translate into corrosion inhibiting or lubrication properties. Rust inhibiting and lubrication will be evaluated separately but so many of the products made a point of claiming water displacing properties that I thought it worth evaluating. In the grand scheme I dont know if water displacing is going to amount to a hill of beans since lubrication and corrosion fighting can take place even if the product does not displace water but so many of the products made the displacement claim that I opted to evaluate it. Results: The vast majority of the products evaluated DID NOT displace water. 3 in one oil is a good example. It was in no way a water displacing agent but to its credit, it does not claim to be. Rather than listing each product and whether or not it displaced water, Here are the only 3 that DID displace water as well as a look at 3 in one oil as a comparison. The water displacing products are: http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps470bcbe1.jpg The picture above can be a bit deceiving. The 3 water displacers look as if a thin film of product is floating on the water. That is not the case. What you are seeing is the surface tension of the water acting like a mirror. You can tell by looking closely to see the reflection of the top of metal hex nut that looks to be floating on that thin film. There was no floating compound on the surface of any of the 3 products. I then rolled and tilted and shook the bottle to see if the compound clung to the metal surface and kept water off the metal part. In all cases, the metal part was coated in the compound and resisted water clinging to the metal. After this agitation I allowed the bottles to rest for an hour to see if the compound separated or changed in any way after being exposed to the water. No change was noted. I did however observe some changes to the plastic bottle that held the Strike hold product. Notice the impact Strike Hold had on the plastic bottle. That leads me to the next area of interest. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pseff72e4e.jpg |
Compatability:
Next up is evaluating compatibility with non-metal compounds. This is a tough claim to challenge since there are more plastic and rubber compounds and types of finishes than anybody could possibly check. Some products clearly stated they are not safe for rubber or plastic or finishes and cautioned the user to first test on a discrete location. Other products stated they are safe for (or outright encouraged use) on finishes, leather, wood, etc while still others made no warning nor statement in this regard. A simple check for reaction is to place a small amount of each product on polystyrene (Styrofoam) and observe the reaction. We know what Gas and Acetone do to Styrofoam and we wouldn’t use those harsh products on our gun finish or plastics or rubber so I will use that as a base for this evaluation. Compounds known to destroy polystyrene are Gasoline, Benzene, Toluene, Acetone, Xylene. There are other agents harmful to polystyrene but you get the point. Since its not practical to do a compatibility evaluation with every known type of plastic and every type of gun finish and paint, I only tested polystyrene and took the warnings about compatibility from the product labels. The majority of the products did not harm nor soften polystyrene. Here is the sheet I used for the evaluation. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psf42cb59c.jpg Here is an easier to read image of the products in this evaluation that dissolved polystyrene. It should be noted that all 3 water displacers were harmful to the evaluation sheet of polystyrene yet 6 other products that were not water displacers were also harmful to the sheet. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psfb1bdfc8.jpg lubrication: The reduction of friction/heat in moving metal parts is what I evaluated next. Many of the products make claims in regards to lubrication meaning a reduction in friction/heat/wear. (some make fantastic claims) To evaluate lubrication claims I will evaluate static friction forces. If you slept through your science/physics classes, Static Friction is the force that resists the movement of two objects against one another when the objects are initially at rest. To evaluate the lubrication claims I made a simple device to evaluate static friction forces. Two polished steel surfaces are used to mimic firearms parts. Its size and length of travel was meant to mimic the travel of the action of your typical firearm. A force is applied to cause the weighted steel sled to begin moving on a steel track. Increasing amounts of water are added to a container that is tethered to the weighted sled until the weight is great enough to overcome friction and move the sled. The weight of that water will be recorded to establish a factor compared to dry steel against dry steel. To establish a baseline value for two dry steel surfaces, the exercise was repeated 8 times and then an average was established. Each product will be evaluated by applying the product to both surfaces and recording the amount of weight (force) required to get the weighted sled to move and then repeating the exercise 8 times to arrive at an average force. Here are a few photos of the device used to capture static friction forces. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb71a2b8d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5fa6c012.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps40520237.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps32b165c2.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...pse1fffede.jpg Here is a brief video of the device in action. (note that in an effort to make the video as short as possible I poured the water faster then I will during the actual evaluation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfdn5OuL8TY How much lube to use: We have all been instructed to apply lubrication liberally and to wipe off any excess. This seems counter intuitive if you consider something like packing a wheel bearing or using a grease zerk where metal parts are suspended in a bath of lubricant. Gun parts, folding knives, fishing reels and tools however are tightly toleranced with almost no room for large volumes of lubricant but aside from space constraints, excess lubricants cause an increase in effort required to get parts moving. I’m not versed in fluid dynamics but I quickly learned what happens when too much lubricant is applied. Being curious about what I observed I took to the web to review terms such as “Cohesion”, "Adhesion", “Fluid tackiness”, "Viscosity" and "Fluid shear" which explained what I was observing. Excess lubricant acted like a glue that slowed or resisted parts from movement because of the surface tension and viscosity of the excess lube. As I removed more and more of the excess, I observed that less force was required to overcome static friction. In almost every case I found that removing all visible lubricant resulted in the lowest levels of friction between the two polished steel plates. What we have been told is correct, apply liberally to coat and then remove all excess to the point where you think you have removed too much and you will enjoy the least amount of friction. The side benefit to that dry level of lubrication is that it will not attract foreign contaminants that could get trapped in excess/wet lubricant. To ensure there is no cross contamination of products on the sled/track device, after each product is evaluated, the sled and track are cleaned with acetone and paper towels until the dry to dry friction values were restored. Several dry runs are performed before the next product was evaluated. NOTE** I recognize this evaluation may have deficiencies. My lubrication evaluation was conducted at 70 degrees F so it is unknown if the results would be the same if evaluated at 0 or 120 degrees F. Also I am not evaluating longevity. I cycled each product 8 times to arrive at an average force and understand that a product that performed well during 8 cycles may fail long term where a product that performed slightly worse may in fact have better long term lubrication. With that said, equity was my first priority. Every product and action was conducted the same way to ensure each product was getting a fair evaluation. I recorded the results of the force required to move the sled and used a spreadsheet to tabulate the results for this chart. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbe7c7032.jpg To ensure that I was getting credible data and to increase my confidence level, I conducted the lubrication evaluation a 2nd time because as you can see, one product (Frog Lube) in the first evaluation reduced friction so much that I could no add water to the container. Simply hanging the empty container on the device caused the sled to move. For the 2nd evaluation I added weight to the sled and raised the end of the track to create a 10 degree upward slope meaning the sled would have to slide up-hill with the added weight. The results changed but not by much. The top 10 performers remained the top 10 and the bottom 10 remained the bottom 10. The products did jockey each other for position within their respective groups. Here is a chart showing the results from the 2nd evaluation for friction. To make it a little easier to read I am showing only the top 10 performers and the bottom 10 performers in their new rankings. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps8083e02e.jpg |
Corrosion protection:
Lastly I evaluated corrosion protection and inhibiting. It’s a common claim made by the products in this evaluation so I want to evaluate that as well. Some of the products state that they meet or exceed this test and spec or that test and certification (the most common being ASTM B117 and ISO 9227 salt fog chamber corrosion test and a variety of mil specs. ) All of those tests are very good and harsh controlled environment tests but where I found them lacking was: 1. No UV component. All the tools and gear I use spend a lot of time outside and UV rays break down even the best of products . Those UV effects are not mimicked in a sealed fog chamber in a lab. 2. Constant temps. Our gear is expected to perform in subzero to super-hot temps and sometimes those fluctuations may happen all in the same day or week. A fixed 95 degree F test is certainly equitable to all the samples but not a true environmental test with real world applications for a guy that hunts in freezing temps and then brings his gun into the cabin where it sets near the wood stove to dry out and then is returned to sub-freezing temps the next day. 3. Proximity and cross contamination. Since it’s just not cost effective to test each metal plate all by itself in a fog chamber, many samples are ganged together in a small test chamber. Being that the test chamber is only so big, they are positioned very near one another and samples are misted with the same recycled salt water carrying the corrosion from products failing the test (and the products being tested) onto samples adjacent to other parts. I hope to avoid that. 4. No real life dirt or debris. The wind carries all manner of debris on it that rests on metal parts (some more than others) An outdoor evaluation more closely simulates real “in the field” situations. For these reasons (and because I plan to sample far more products than has perhaps been done at the same time during any other evaluation conducted) and because I want to increase my confidence level in the results I get, I conducted 3 evaluations. Many of the home spun evaluations I have seen online ran only a single sample set implying the results would be the same if repeated. I ran 3 separate evaluations under a variety of conditions. A portion of this evaluation took place outdoors in direct sunlight with the fluctuations of night and daytime temps as well as UV exposure and wind, airborne debris and rain. Rain or not I planned to mist one group of the sample plates with a salt / water solution in the ratio of 1 tsp non-iodized salt per cup of tap water (and I have hard water with mineral deposits). This will be the most harsh environment meant to expedite the formation of corrosion. All the sample plates were given a 320 grit (two direction) brushed finish to remove any rust inhibitors the steel maker placed on the steel so they don’t rust in the store. Then the plates were chemically cleaned with acetone prior to applying the product. Each product in the evaluation was applied to the metal per the product instructions on the label. Nearly all products labels direct the user to apply liberally and then wipe off excess product. I followed those instructions as I don’t care for a sloppy, wet gun where excess product is dripping or rubbing off, onto my clothing, gear or car. I left an amount of product on the metal just as I would when I store my firearms. The plates were attached to a suitable (non-metallic) holder at a roughly 15 degree angle from vertical. I didn’t want them lying flat so water would pool on them and I didn’t want them standing perfectly upright either as they would shed water and debris too easily. All the metal samples were sheared out of the same sheets of cold rolled steel sourced at my local hardware store. Several of these sheets were purchased for this evaluation. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb3ce1796.jpg Here is sample board #1 after all the products had been applied to the sample plates. This sample board then sat in my shop for 5 hours to allow the products to fully dry or cure or evaporate or set a film before the board was exposed to the elements. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7eb9c120.jpg Here is a short video of all the samples on board #1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sj8HZApO6Y Then the samples were misted with the salted water. Here is a closer view of the plates after the misting. Notice the different reactions with water. Most plates beaded the water. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps1ce5dffe.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps4c5c51ec.jpg Not all products beaded water. I don’t know the significance of this but observed and recorded it anyway. The products that did not bead water can be seen below. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5fd9ce0d.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbb56aaa1.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps14cdc95b.jpg After 2 hours I observed the samples. The controls were already exhibiting signs of corrosion. White spots are the result of the salt left behind after the water evaporated and does not indicate rust, just dried salt. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psd60ebc22.jpg The plates spent the night outside and it was quite a night. Temps in the upper 30's, a storm rolled through with wind gusts to 30 MPH and on and off rain. 24 hours after each product was applied to the plates they were observed for signs of corrosion. |
**NOTE** Before I go further I will state that during the process of applying the products to the plates, I had to hold the plates by the very edges. The last contact with the plates was along the very top edge as I pushed the sample into the foam board. Some samples took considerable force to place them in the foam. For this reason I will not count against the products that are essentially corrosion free but exhibit corrosion along the edges where otherwise the bulk of the surface is corrosion free. The edge rusting is a result of my handling the samples and removing the product.
Here is sample board #1 after 24 hours http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps79313ae3.jpg Some of the corroded samples. (some with only light corrosion and others with significant corrosion) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9998ed74.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps81d67832.jpg Here is a video of sample board #1 after 24 hours. It’s still quite windy as you will be able to hear in the video. Pause and restart as required to get a better look at samples of interest to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZinIJ0k3tY I recorded the samples with mild rusting and major rusting after 24 hours. The samples exhibiting mild rusting were Rand CLP Ballistol Breakfree CLP Hoppe's MDL Rusteprufe Boeshield T-9 Rem Oil w/ moisture guard ATF The samples exhibiting significant rusting were Kroil PB-50 Rem Oil (regular) Gunzilla Super Lube Militec-1 Hoppe’s Elite Ace Silicone Grease Atsko Silicone Spray Pennzoil 3 in One oil RIG #2 Gibbs Paste wax Both Controls After 24 hours of exposure, 22 of the 46 products (48%) have already begun to show signs of corrosion but remember, the samples were misted with a salt water solution to speed up the process. The 2nd and 3rd group of plates will NOT have a salted water application. After 48 hours of Board #1 being placed outside, here is a list of the products on board #1 that are still preventing corrosion. CRC 3-36 M-Pro 7 LPX Fluid Flim Archoil AR4400 Quicken HP Clenzoil Barricade Corrosion X Frog Lube Eezox Hoppe’s gun oil One Shot WD-40 Specialist Gun Seal Rust Prevent After 72 hours (and lots of wind and rain), the un-corroded sample plates on board #1 are http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps11188547.jpg After 96 hours (and a mostly rain free day) here are the remaining plates from board #1 still protecting from corrosion. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps91d4b91d.jpg After 120 hours with a day of light rain, the remaining samples have dwindled to just 3. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps975401e0.jpg Another day of on and off rains and the final three are still holing on. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9db3bbbf.jpg A rare sunny and windy day. 168 hours (7 days) have elapsed since I placed Board #1 outside. No change from the day before. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps204003af.jpg At this point I will close out the evaluation of board #1 (but continue to monitor) Here is a picture of the entire board. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps9a0335f4.jpg Here is a video so you can get a better look at each sample. Start and stop the video as you see fit. Despite the constant rains and clouds, the UV rays have taken their toll on the sharpie marker used to denote each brand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5F_QnEa-gc http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps38fda4f8.jpg |
The second group of plates was also evaluated outdoors and started the day after board #1. The metal samples were treated with product and then sat in my shop for 12 hours to dry, cure, evaporate, film-over before the board was placed outside. Here is sample board #2
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc3bb818e.jpg Here is a short video close up of all the samples on board #2. Even though I crossed off Frog Lube a couple days ago because of the formation of corrosion you will see its still doing a pretty good job of protecting the plate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCOOAnvMWe8 The plan was to mist them with clean water but with all the rain that was not required. The duration of the evaluation was a mix of sunny and bright and heavy rains but very windy exposing the samples to UV, wind, rain, dust and all the other elements we encounter when using our firearms, bows, knives, tools, etc. It was a time to conduct such an experiment. I***8217;m sure everybody living in my area of the state hated this wet stormy spring weather except me. I couldn***8217;t have picked a better set of days to do this evaluation. Upper 30***8217;s to low 40***8217;s, high winds, on and off showers and breaks of sunlight and cold rainy nights. Its like living in a corrosion test chamber. Most evaluations of this nature run a single set of samples and call it good enough. I***8217;m running 3 sample boards and already I am seeing differences in results from board #1 to board #2 so I think it was a wise move to run multiple samples. Recall that board #1 was misted with a salted water solution to expedite corrosion. Sample board #2 has only seen exposure to rain water but the results after 24 hours are showing sample board #2 is has more product failures than board #1 in its first 24 hours (something I did not expect to see). When I observed sample board #1 after 24 hours, a total of 23 samples exhibited signs of corrosion. Sample board #2 has been outside for 24 hours and already 34 of the 46 products are exhibiting signs of corrosion (74% of the products are failing) Oddly, the controls on board #2 (which are treated with nothing) are faring better than some of the plates that are protected by product (opposite of what was observed on board #1) Here is a photo of sample board #2 after the first 24 hours. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psfbb4a297.jpg It***8217;s a shorter list to name the products that are still providing resistance to corrosion on Sample board #2. They are. Gun Seal WD-40 Specialist Hoppe***8217;s gun oil Boeshield T-9 Frog Lube Rust prevent Tuf-Glide Rem Oil with moisture Guard Weapons Shield Hornady One Shot Militec-1 Rand CLP Here is a video of board #2 so you can see which products are failing in the first 24 hours. (don***8217;t confuse debris with rust. The video may make it look like some plates are corroding when they are actually use dirty from all the wind blown debris and rain) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikzlnnZ9hQ After 48 hours, the un-corroded samples from board #2 are shown below (I contend that the Hornady ***8216;s One Shot, edge corrosion shown below is edge contamination on my part as described earlier. I can***8217;t otherwise explain why the majority of the plate is corrosion free expect a strip along the left edge except that I failed to apply the product to that portion of the plate.) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps070700a2.jpg Its clear that if I had only used a single sample board, I would have arrived are incorrect conclusions about some of these products. Multiple boards that show products preventing corrosion on those boards increases the confidence level in the evaluation. With a break in the rains here are the remains of Board #2 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps55d577a3.jpg More rain and the list is growing shorter. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psfb6c4f27.jpg After 120 hrs, Board #2 is down to the final 3. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psbc5fe7dc.jpg 144 hours and no change from the day before. Based on board #1 and no change in board #2 I am ending the evaluation of board #2 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps96612884.jpg Here is a picture of Board #2 [img]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/212007154/rust/board2H_zps567f25ba.jpg[/imgl] Here is a video of Board #2 so you can get a close up view of each product. Pause and start as you see fit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VNF5VRSY4 http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb6db75e8.jpg |
By now you may have noticed some commonality in the remaining samples of board #2 and board #1. Results would indicate that
Hoarnady's One shot WD 40 Specialist And perhaps Frog Lube Have shown they outperform the others with Rust Prevent also doing a heck of a job. Running multiple boards has increased my confidence level in the results observed. But there is a third corrosion evaluation (the indoor one) that started the same day and Board #2. I will remind you that Board #1 and #2 were extreme conditions (abuse) simply to expedite the formation of corrosion under salted water and rain water conditions (as well as fog, cold temps, temp fluctuations, lots of wind and some UV rays thrown in for good measure). It***8217;s doubtful any gun, bow, knife or tool owner is going to subject his gear to this in real life but that is the nature of such an evaluation. By design it was meant to be tough. Board 3 will more closely mimic conditions seen while storing our gear. The third and final Board will be a combination evaluation. One portion will focus on the fingerprint issue on firearms and the other portion of the evaluation deals with longevity. This evaluation will be conducted indoors with no application of water to speed up corrosion. Here is sample board #3 with all the plates coated in their respective products. Sample Board #3 sat in my shop for 4 hours to allow all the products to dry or cure or evaporate or skim over (some products make claims in this regard) then each was given a fingerprint on the metal. We all have different oils and acids and salts in our fingerprints so not every fingerprint will cause the same level of corrosion. I don***8217;t have 48 fingers and washing after each sample to prevent cross contamination would only remove the salts and oils from my finger so I had to outsource the fingerprint job to a friend (we will call him "Frank" or "Oscar") because I will substitute a hotdog for a finger. Like me the hotdog is made mostly of meat (with some fillers) water, salt and fat (in my case perhaps too much fat) to prevent cross contamination, a fresh slice was made off the end of the sacrificial wiener to provide an equitable fingerprint on each sample plate. A nice greasy and salty fingerprint was placed in the lower left hand corner of each sample. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb6950e1e.jpg Sample board #3 will spend its time in my dinning room and be observed for signs of corrosion.(Until my wife gets sick of it and makes me move out into my shop) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps5e85bfbd.jpg Board #3 will be observed and photographed and at the point plates begin to fail (determined as rust appearing on the surface) they will be tallied until all the samples have failed and I expect at some point all will eventually fail. It may take weeks or months (perhaps years) for that to happen to sample board #3. As of this writting its been 9 days with no signs of corrosion on any plates. As for me, Here is what I took away from this (even though Board #3 is still being observed) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc0b14867.jpg With this evaluation behind me, I an unlikley to condsider the WD 40 specialist as a gun care product because it wasnt marketed as a cleaner (not meant to be a cleaner so I cant knock for that) and it didnt rank terribly high for lubrication but I will be using it for many other outdoor applications and tools where I want to delay corrosion. The column of my drill press, the top of my table saw, my lathe, saw blades, hand tools and lots of other tools will benefit from its ability to protect from rust. Frog lube impressed in both lubrication and corrosion inhibition but I wonder how good a cleaner it is? The mfgr website touts it as a cleaner but I am uncertain. (only speculation on my part) Hornady's One Shot strikes me as more of a cleaner than Frog Lube and WD 40 specialist (speculation on my part) and it certainly performed well as a lube and corrosion inhibitor. Final thoughts 1. There are two enemies to our guns. Neglect and liberal Democrats who dislike the 2nd amendment. Do everything in your power to make sure neither are allowed to make any advances on your weapons. 2. Use these products in a well-ventilated area and wear gloves. Health is your first wealth. Protect it like you do your gear. 3. Water displacing claims don***8217;t mean much. None of the 3 water displacers performed well in the corrosion or lubrication evaluation. 4. Don***8217;t over lube. Its far worse than under lubing. Wipe off the lube to the point you think you may have taken off too much and you should be just about right. 5. Not all gun care products are created equal. Choose wisely. Knowledge is power. I have a little more thanks to this evaluation. 6. If you have had a preferred gun care product that has served you well for many years, there is no need to change even if your product did not fare well in this evaluation. If your outdoor gear functions well and is corrosion free and you are happy with the product and like the smell, why fix what isn***8217;t broken. See note 1. 7. This WAS NOT an evaluation of all the gun care products on the market. It was only an evaluation of the 46 products I assembled for this evaluation. If your favorite product was not included in this evaluation, all anybody can do is speculate as to how it WOULD have performed. While seaking suggestions for which products to include in this evaluation, The recommendations I received came with comments about how I neednt to look any further than their prefered brand as it is the best of the best. In spite of asking for suggestions on multiple forums, nobody recommended Hornady One shot. I found it via a web search at Midway's web site. Frog lube was suggested by many. If there is a better product out there, I will no doubt hear about soon by those lamenting the fact it wasnt included in this evaluation. 8. Since I now have more product than any person should own, I may entertain conducting another evaluation with additional products to see how they stack up against the top 5 from this evaluation. Ive set aside the friction test bed (after coating it with WD 40 specialist to prevent rust) just in case I get the urge. Edit May 6 9. I am In no way affiliated with or in any way attached to any of the products or companies of the products I evaluated. I am in no way compensated by any product brand name or manufacturer as a result of this evaluation. No company asked me to conduct this evaluation. All products were purchased by me and none were sent or gifted to me for this evaluation. |
Very interesting review
I am curious why RIG gun grease and cosmoline were not part of the evaluation. These products were the most effective in the Brownells review of rust prevention products. All the best...
Gil |
See final notes #7.
|
I edited the initial post with the following
9. I am In no way affiliated with or in any way attached to any of the products or companies of the products I evaluated. I am in no way compensated by any product brand name or manufacturer as a result of this evaluation. No company asked me to conduct this evaluation. All products were purchased by me and none were sent or gifted to me for this evaluation. |
Rancid,
Thank you for a very extensive study and complete report. I get the feeling you have too much free time and this is "Information OVERLOAD!" Since my first gun possession and care requirements began in 1958, I have used Hoppes#9 for smokeless gun cleaning and G.I. Bore Cleaner for corrosive ammo gun cleaning followed by GI gun oil or Hoppes Gun oil for short term corrosive protection and Mil Spec Rifle Grease or RIG for long term storage of treasured arms. I have NEVER experienced rust or corrosion using my gun cleaning/preservation regimen. Bottom Line: In 50 words, or less, WHAT do you recommend for corrosion protection? I guess I missed your final recommendation and need an index of the indices! Adam |
Rancid,
Thank you for a very extensive study and complete report. I get the feeling you have too much free time and this is "Information OVERLOAD!"[/quote] I have the same 24 hours in my day as everyone else. I stopped watching TV 9 years ago. That may account for what you consider "free" time. Quote:
(The above text was 50 words) |
Rancid,
LOL! I asked "what time is it?" and not how to build a clock. Be well. Adam |
Everything you need is contained in the text. Its right there waiting for you.
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Rancid,
IF you cannot summarize your findings, do you really think people will take you seriously? I do not. Adam |
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Ive received a number of messages asking what the 3 top performing products look like when dispensed. I will answer that here.
Frog Lube (in this variety) is a Green and runny product. It needs to be spread around and wiped off gun parts. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psab9c806b.jpg WD 40 Specialist is a spray that is thick. It reminds me of a non-stick cooking spray. It needs to be spread around and wiped off (or it could be left on in excess depending on the application) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc6df6254.jpg One shot comes out of the can clear and quickly disappears. By the time I sprayed it on this plate while holding it over the trash can, set it down, started the camera and took the pic it was already dried (Hence the term Dry lube) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psa0a738cd.jpg Also, there seems to be a misunderstanding that the WD 40 specialist that did well in this evaluation is standard WD 40. It is not. It is a completely different product that your regular WD 40. Likewise, The Hornady One shot gun cleaner and dry lube is not the Hornady One shot case lube that reloaders use. (at least from a marketing and packaging standpoint. I cant speak to the contents.) The two may be the same and I would have no way of knowing but they have diff names, uses and packaging. |
Very informative study
I am amazed at the level of detail and analysis. Well done. My only reservation is that since RIG gun grease and cosmoline were not included the study appears to be incomplete. Brownells did a similar study of rust inhibiting products and RIG and cosmoline were the best. All the best...
Gil |
Rancid, you've done an amazing amount of work! Thank you.
Very illuminating. |
Upon completion of this evaluation I sent emails to several of the manufacturers of the products used. Thus far (4 days after sending the emails) I have received only one reply and it came from the founders of Frog Lube. Here is that reply.
“Ron, We are stunned by the exhaustive and comprehensive approach of your testing. And we are quite flattered at the result. You have done something no one else has done. We do our testing in primarily in operating firearms, but we have done some technical tests such as the corrosion and lubricity testing and have seen the same results. May we use this link to share with our customers on line and in our facebook page? We have lots of fans (and a few competitors) who would appreciate seeing this. Also, we very much appreciate your 'objectivity' and your public claims. This strengthens the validity of your results. Thanks again for sharing this profound work with us. Larry Lasky & Stacy Lasky FrogLube Founders “ ---- I replied to them with the following: “Feel free to share or distribute the info as you see fit. Prior to this evaluation I had never used Frog Lube (or many of the products I evaluated) so I was curious and ended up doing this evaluation. My search for lube and corrosion solution was not entirely firearms centric as I am more of an archer and bowhunter so I would like to make this request. Archery and Bowhunting are very large markets with direct overlap to firearms owners. The same holds true for the rapidly increasing crossbow and crossbowhunting market. All of these user groups require lubrication and corrosion solutions. The main difference for the bowhunting and crossbow hunting market is the scent/smell of products we use due to how close bowhunters and perhaps crossbow hunters have to get to prey to make a successful shot. The minty smell of Frog Lube may keep this user group from using your product. Would it be possible to remove the minty scent and create a scent free version? Breaking into the archery/bowhunting and crossbow hunting market would create another demographic purchasing your product. Please consider it. You would certainly have me as a customer for more than just firearms usage. Ron” |
Rancid,
Thank you for finally posting in post #19 on this thread, " these are the 3 top performing products." That is ALL most of us wanted to know. When a person like yourself does a lot a research, it aids your work to be able to convey it in a Synopsis; not everyone has the time to read dozens of pages of test data. Please consider you audience in future research. Many folks merely want the "bottom line" and not an endless "novel" just two pages shorter than "War and Peace." LOL! When I want to know the time, I do not want to know how to build a clock... Adam |
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Its been 288 hours (12 days) since Board #1 was placed outside and 264 hours (11 days) for Board #2 so I thought I would update. There has been some rain this week but lots of sun and wind and the trees are spreading all manner of pollen and debris in the air. The Sun’s UV rays have all but made the sharpie marker unreadable but I have a map and can still make it out enough to see.
Here are the two boards where they are residing on the patio. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps6b3f283c.jpg And here are the close-ups of the samples. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps7d4334a9.jpg http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps23fda156.jpg As for Board #3 in my house. Its been 240 hours (10 days) and as expected, the indoor protection in a constant environment has them all still in fine shape. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps98ea9541.jpg |
Wow
Rancid. The information you posted is very useful. I had never even heard(I don't think) of Frog Lube. Gonna have to hunt that product up. Thanks for all the hard work. And I do understand not watching TV. I only wish the "Gunwriters" could be as objesctive in their evaluations as you have been with this. |
Rancid,
I must agree you did a lot of research. I also agree with Gil that you did not cover RIG or cosmoline. I hope in future you will include RIG and cosmoline because many gun owners use that stuff. May I also suggest you better manage you wide universe of Data by putting a one-paragraph Synopsis (Summary) of your Findings at the beginning or the end of your report. It is Patronizing to "Assume" every person will "wade" through your data to FINALLY come to a Finding. IF you cannot come to a conclusion, HOW can anyone take your laborious work seriously? I have done much firearms related research. Every study has a beginning, a middle and an end with a CONCLUSION. Your inability to conclude your Work indicates you got in "Over Your Head" and cannot see "The forest for the trees." ONCE you have a CONCLUSION, it would be helpful to convey it to your readers. If you cannot communicate your work, May I suggest Report Writing 101? You Obviously can do FIELD Work, BUT can you communicate your findings? I have not seen it to date. Be well. Adam |
Actually Adam, of all the forums I posted this evaluation to you are the only person who struggled with reading and comprehension skills except one other person on another for that goes by the name of Webly. Like you he lacked the basic education or even a modest ability to understand the written word. I doubt I could dumb it down enough for you two unless I used only pictures.
Im not inclined to coddle to the lazy, ignorant, entitlement (I want it all and I want it now and I dont want to put forth the effort so I want you to do it for me and then complain when you arent doing fast enough) portion of society that is fast growing. (not just on internet forums). It was very parochial reading. One needed only to have the desire to bring something of themselves to the task. (In this case reading). Finally you took the initiative to actually read the text. I cant tell you how happy I am that you are now satisfied. Really I cant. In the future, you may wish to employ another person to read the posts to you and then explain the concepts presented. While you still dont understand I should explain to you that my intention WAS NOT to tell you which product to use. It was an evaluation that you could read and then arrive at your own conclusions from the data presented but I fear you dont have the capacity for such a thing. In the future I will continue to present such evaluations in these very simple terms but perhaps should follow up with a very dumbed down version for you and Webly that would read as follow. 1. I bought some gun lube (followed by a picture) 2. I used it. (followed by a picture) 3. Brand X seemed the best (followed by a picture of brand X) 4. You should buy brand X (followed by another picture of brand X) But I fear that too would be too much reading for you and you would still complain that it was not simple enough to understand. Frankly I blame the public education system. You may wish to seek a refund. Im not sure how you could take your lack of ability to understand very simple text and somehow turn it into my fault and then pout and carry on as you did with such a tantrum. Ive only seen such behavior in adolescents who want to blame their shortcoming on others and then prattle on and on in such a tedious a manner dripping with vinegar and water akin to something one might use on a Summers Eve. All the best Your pal Rancid. :) |
this is quickly becoming my favorite thread :D
THANKS for the research. |
Rancid,
I believe your name say it all! I think you are truly Rancid. Since you refuse to discuss your alleged scientific research, I will gladly allow you to have the last word, even if the best you can do is make a personal attack on me. My friends here on this site know me and, now they know you. Adam |
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Your pal Rancid. |
Rancid,
I have nothing more to discuss. Be well. Adam |
While I fear it comes far too late, I suggest it is for the best.
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Rancid a couple of points of order. At no time did Adam ever indicate that he didn't read, OR understand your documentation, yet you have continued to insinuate that because he insists on a good summary he is somehow lacking. I have known Adam through huntchat for more than a decade, and he has only ever given good positive criticism when discussing posts. Yet you have continued to be insulting for reasons I can't fathom to a guy who is both respected and intelligent. I enjoy reading your posts and work, and I enjoy when HC members and moderators are able to have good conversations. That being said I privately expressed concerns very early on that when a summary was requested, or advised you were particularly insulting to not only Adam, but in such a way that would have alienated anyone else who would also have liked a brief summary of your findings. In the future I hope that you can take constructive criticism with more grace.
thanks for your work Richard |
Thanks for the comments. That does not however jive with the volume of PM’s I have been getting from people here that have been very critical of Adam. Many warned me of him. Many offered the apology that should have come from the source. The common theme in all those PM’s was that that is just how he is or that is what I should expect from him. I did not seek out comments from those people. Those warning, negative comments (language that ought not be posted in a public forum) about Adam and the apologies came unsolicited into my inbox so it appears many others here saw something different than you did. They saw the same abusive, antagonistic, abrasive, condesending and borish actions I saw.
|
We have been experiencing torrential rains and flash flooding. When it isn’t raining its very humid. Its certainly been a wet spring. The UV rays have now completely erased the sharpie marker labels on the boards but I know which is which from prior photos. Here is a picture of the two boards with board #1 at 15 days (360 hours) and board #2 at 14 days (336 hours). The top 3 performing products are continuing to protect the steel plates.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps3731a808.jpg |
Hey Rancid, just curious, Board #1 Top Row third from the left, and Board #2 Top row, third from the right. What are those two? They seem to be holding up well enough to perhaps be a decent tool coating.
As for the other part, I said my piece, I hope everybody will make peace, and move on. Thanks again for the hard work on the testing. Richard |
Both of those plates carried the Rust Prevent product.
http://www.shooters-choice.com/rust-...ativelubricant In regards to corrosion, It performed well lasting 192 hours on board #1 and 72 hours on board #2. It was in the middle of the field in regards to lubricity (ranked 20 of 46). Its negatives were a strong odor and it ate through foam like a hot knife through butter. In regards to Adam. The volume of (all) negative comments and apologies given by other people to my in box speaks volumes about how he is viewed here. It appears my low opinion of him is pretty universally shared here but I appreciate your lone positive comments about him. |
If it ate through foam it makes me think it might have an acetone base which would force away water, but could be bad for good quality wood stocks. I don't know if it would cause a stock shrinkage or not, but it makes me leery of it.
Richard |
Its been 20 days since I started board #3 which is the indoor board with the (hotdog) fingerprint.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps842e322f.jpg The first (and only) sample so far to exhibit corrosion has appeared. The rust is only in the fingerprint area. The sample plate is the one coated with Eezox. http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psb6784f4b.jpg For all the positive comments about Eezox, it has been a complete disappointment. |
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