[gspsonny03]

First off welcome to the forum Jon. Secondly Lilred is a Lady, not a sir, just to let you know that. and thirdly if it is at all possible, I think that I agree with both of you to a point. Lilred trains a ton of dogs mostly for her self and I agree that when the owner of the dog is nowhere around while the dog is going through O.T. that makes it hard on the dog on who the real master is, that's why almost every O.T. trainer that I know has the owner there most of the time if at all possible and is also trained at the same time the dog is. I also see Jon's side of it, because, and I'm not saying this to slight anyone, the owner has a tendency to overlook a lot of shortcomings in his dog. In other words he lets his dog get by with things that a Certified trainer never would and I speak from experience on this point. My dog will mind me, protect me and obey me, my wiife and my son, but if I have a family gathering at my house with fifteen or so people and they are there all day and they don't leave him alone, someone is going to get bit. Should I leave him in the kennel all day and ignore him? Probably, but he has had free rein of this house for four years and minds his manners when it's just me and the wife here. So anyway I can see both sides of the argument. I guess my point is if you are going to send your dog for O.T. you really need to go to class with him and learn your part of the training as well as his. Just my 02 cents worth.