[QUOTE]
Originally posted by DaMadman
I will agree on a few things here and have to add my .02 cents
#1 I would probably be upset if my dogs were killed by wolves and eaten.
*ME too.
#2 it would more than likely put a fear in me that I wouldn't be out roaming in the woods without a gun.
*I never go out into the boonies unarmed.
#3 The wolf population need to be kept in balance
*I agree
#4 Agressive Wolves in populated area should be killed
*All wolves are aggressive. it is their nature, that dumb movie NEVER CRY WOLF nothwithstanding. Turn out to be a lie anyway.
However, For Christ sake your going to tell me that this guy trains dogs to chase Grizzly bears and Cougars but is somehow shocked and bent all out of shape that 2 of them were killed and one injured.
*YUP!
Doesn't make sense that the guy is out in the woods treeing bears with hunting dogs and has no way to protect himself or the dogs if the bear decided to turn on them. What would this dude have done if that mature sow decide it didn't want retreat up a tree and turn on hi and or his dogs, it could easily happen especially this time of year when the sows are dropping babies.
Give me a break.
*That shows just how little you know about bears. The sows drop their cubs while in hibernation.
I don't know guys the wolves are natural predators and have a right to be in the woods, just the same as any other animal, predator or prey.
*No argument there, but their population should be strictly controlled. it never will be because of the bunny huggers. I'll say more on that in a minute.
If a Grizzly happened to come down the tree and rip one of the dogs a new hole or two would this guy say that all bears shouldn't be allowed to live in the woods. Probably not because he is making money training and selling dogs to hunt them.
*I'll betcha a dollar that grizzly won't be up a tree. it is my understanding that climbing trees, while not impossible is a great deal more difficult for a grizzly than the more common black bearto climb a tree. I'll agree that there have bew a few instances recorder where a grizzly bear either tried to climb a tree or did climb a little way up trying to catch the human that mad him mad. Not sure whether the bear was successful or not.
I agree 100% that if there is a known agressive wolf or wolves in an area near a human population they should be killed.
*We're in agreement here. How about harassing livestock as well. The ranchers that lose cows are nowhere near being properly compensated. I'll get into this one in a minute as well
I agree that when it gets to the point, if it hasn't already there should be a hunting season to cull the wolf population.
*We're past that point now. JMHO.
But I am sorry I just do not see this guys story as any reason that the wolves shouldn't have been reintroduced or why they shouldn't be allowed to continue being part of nature.
*Because we eradicated them for a reason.
Wolves can be agressive if you enter thier territory especially with hunting dogs. That's just part of nature the same as it is part of nature that you wouldn't go trapsing through Grizzly territory while the Salmon stream is full of salmon. I mean wolves are for all intents and purposes Wild Dogs themselves, who is to say that this guys hunting dogs didn't go after the wolves first and the wolves being what they are defended their territory??
*Why not? You have as much right as the grizzly or the wolf.
The only thing about the story that concerns me is that it makes the wolves look like they are mindless killing machines when in fact the only reasons wolves kill are #1 to eat or #2 to protect the territory that they roam against other predators so they will have food to eat.
*And what about the documented reports where a pack of wolves would run through a herd of caribou, maiming and killing indiscriminately and eating little or none of the downed prey?
The wolves probably seen the dogs as another predator moving into thier hunting territory. [/QUOTE
*Probably. So what?
madman. I'm not trying to get a p!$$!ng match going here although it may seem that way. Obviously, you have absolutely no experince with wolves. My experience is slight, but experience nonetheless.
Incident #1. On the Olymic Penninsula about five miles out of Humptulips Washington state, I'm sitting on a stump in a swampy area elk hunting. it's about 4 in the afternoon and I heard, for the first time in my life, a wolf howl. The hairs on the back of my neck went straight up. Way too cool. A true wilderness experience.
Inciedent #2. While deer hunting up on the Kaibab plateau in Arizona, I'm sitting on a hillside over a water hole hoping to ambush a big buck I'd benn trying to nail for several days. two wolves, obviously a mating pair came out and were playiny and cavorting in the warmth of the open area around the water hole. A beautiflul sight. I spent almost an hour watching them before they went back into the brush. Might as well watch as witht hem around, I sure wouldn't see any deer.
Those were the pleasant incidents.
Incident #3. This occurred during an elk hunt in the White Mountains of AZ where several groups of the Mexican Grey Wolf have been introduced. We were stopped in a fairly open area so my hunting partner could try and call home on his cell phone. It was getting along towards sundown, and I decided to walk up the road and see if I could pick up any sign or mayber even spot and elk. A bit later as it was starting to be too dark to shoot, I saw movement in the brush off to my right. There were maybe eight of them, wolves for sure and when I walked they moved. When I stopped, they stopped. I decided to head back to where the rest of my group was and the wolves continued to follow me. I'd stop, they'd stop. I'd move, they moved.
The question is, were they stalking me as prey or just curious? I'll never know. When I got back to the gfroup though, they just melted back into the brush.
Incident #4. Same area as #3, but a year later. Just my wife and I on this hunt. We were taking a break during the lunch hour at camp when a rancher drove up and asked us if we'd seen a cow, which he described. We had seen it very early that morning and gave him the location.
Later that evening after the hunt, we were just getting ready to turn in when we heard the most horrible sounds. Some animal was screaming and bawling in total agony. This lasted for maybe 15 to 20 minutes before it became quite again. As all this sounds quite close to camp, when we got up the next morning and hunted up towards where the sounds had come from. We found what was left of that rancher's missing cow. It was not a pretty sight.
I'll be quite blunt here. Reintroducing those wolves back into areas where they were eradicated is, in my not very humble opinion, a serious mistake of the highest level.
They've already made inroads into our elk herds, and with the drought gthat we have been enduring for the last seven years, the deer, elk and antelope herds have suffered greatly.
Think about this. The bunnyhuggers want to stop all sport hunting and any subsistance huinting for native-Americans only. What betetr way to accomplish this by introducing a mega predator. Reduce the herds to the point that hunting is no longer vialable, and hunting will come to a stop. Nore more hunting? Well, if there is no hunting, you don't need that deer rifle anymore. Turn it in. Unintendend consequences my acheing arse.
I seriously hope I have not offended you, as this is not my intention. However, we who live out here where all the crap is happening see it in a very different light.
Paul B.