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Contenderizer,
The general rule is to use NRA grading adjectives for firearms such as EXCELLENT, Very Good, Good, Fair or Poor conditions. Each adjective relates to dings, blue wear, pitting, etc. Your "Average" conditions could be Very Good, Good or Poor.
If the guns are in serviceable condition with no missing parts, no broken parts and no pitting in the bores or chambers, I would give a ball park number of $100-$200 for the Dutch Carbine and $75.00-$125.00 for the Italian carbine.
Adam
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Adam Helmer
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