Sure was a big stink on the news last night about that 5.7 pistol

[DaMadman]

Man they were all kinds of lies flying and mud slinging, say that the ONLY person that would want to own one was a person that was interested in killing a COP.

Blanket statements like that just make the ignorant look MORE ignorant.

Whatta ya do?

[GoodOlBoy]

Do what I do shake your head, and pray. These types are the future of politics.

I don't even want to think about what the US is going to be like because of the liberal lies by the time I retire.

GoodOlBoy

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by GoodOlBoy
Do what I do shake your head, and pray. These types are the future of politics.

I don't even want to think about what the US is going to be like because of the liberal lies by the time I retire.

GoodOlBoy

Oh They spew that crap and I lose it. My wife thinks I am nutty as a fruitcake because I cuss at the T.V. when they start all the Antigun crap.

They acted like that gun in the 5.7 x 28 caliber was satan's right hand tool to end the earth last night.

I mean it is against the law already to own armour piercing ammo and the BATF concluded that the rounds that are for sale are not armour piercing. of course with a FMJ and a hard core the bullets could be, but that would make them illegal.

Just another case of blaming the gun for the capabilities of what COULD happen with the wrong person and the wrong ammo

[VinVega]

I don't know what you do, because if statistics don't talk, I don't know what do. The reason I say that is because I seriously wonder how many cop-killers want to go spend $800 on a gun that they'll just have to get rid of afterward. I also wonder how many COPs HAVE been killed by the Five-seveN.
The problem here is that the bullet was given the OK by the ATF, therefore it is not armor-piercing. The news agencies really need to stop lying to the people and helping them make decisions without even knowing what really happens. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but stuff like this really gets my blood boiling.

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by VinVega
I don't know what you do, because if statistics don't talk, I don't know what do. The reason I say that is because I seriously wonder how many cop-killers want to go spend $800 on a gun that they'll just have to get rid of afterward. I also wonder how many COPs HAVE been killed by the Five-seveN.
The problem here is that the bullet was given the OK by the ATF, therefore it is not armor-piercing. The news agencies really need to stop lying to the people and helping them make decisions without even knowing what really happens. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but stuff like this really gets my blood boiling.

Preach on Brother VinVega

I'll give you an amen

everything I watched last night was extreme blatant lies. I think the Gun manufacturers should be able to sue these clowns for defimation (sp) of character for telling such outlandish BS on T.V. where the Anti's and the "Don't know any betters" can here that crap.

I mean just as an example. I know a lady that is not against gun ownership she thinke if I want to own guns to hunt with and to defend my own home I should be able to. However I have heard on a few occasions that she would say that there is no reason for ANYONE to own a gun like that.

Once it was about Semi-auto shotguns and rifles. So I tried to explain to her that my father uses a Remington 1100 to deer hunt and has for the last 35 years. Why should that gun be illegal?
She started spewing som crap about something she heard on TV about how dangerous the gun was and how nobody needs to have 10 rounds to shoot a deer. I promptly rolled my Eyes, told her that before she decides that someone should lose the right to own a certain gun she should do a little research on an unbiased level. I explained that what she heard about SemiAuto guns was totally outlandish and complete lies, however I still think she believed what she heard on TV more than she did me.

I mean who would you believe. Someone that has hunted and been around guns for 30 years or some clown on TV that has never owned a gun of any kind and thinks nobody should be able to own them.

[gregarat]

So what if the Five and Seven can go through Kevlar. From what I can gather the cartrage isnt great for anything else.

[gregarat]

Madman,

TV about how dangerous the gun was and how nobody needs to have 10 rounds to shoot a deer.

As if the T.V. journalist knows how many shots is needed? Thats funny!

I always thought it was as many as it took to anchor it

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by gregarat
So what if the Five and Seven can go through Kevlar. From what I can gather the cartrage isnt great for anything else.

The issue her is It totally depends on what the bullet is made out of. Not all 5.7 rounds are going to go through kevlar.

Just like a .223 isn't, unless it is made of certain material. If it is made of armour piercing material I agree that it should prolly be kept out of the hands out the public for the safety of LEO. But that law is already on the books.

Bottom line is it is not the gun, it is not the cartridge design, it is the material that the bullet is mad out of and that can be controlled the same way it is now

[VinVega]

I don't get the whole armor piercing non-sense anyway. From what I understand, a .30-06 FMJ (which you can easilly get from mil-surp distributors) could go through just about anything the police put in your way. A .50BMG could go through a lot more than what the police have, and it isn't considered armor piercing. There are a lot meaner rounds out there than the 5.7.

[gregarat]

Vin stated my point.

[HPBTMTCH]

This is always makes me scratch my head, you can`t armor piercing ammunition, BUT, you can buy the black tipped armor piercing steel core .30 cal bullet, the primed lake city brass, and the surplus powder. Go figure.

[fabsroman]

There are plenty of rounds that can go through a cop's vest. I am willing to bet that an officer on the receiving end of a 12 ga. shotgun sabot in full copper would be having a really bad day. I would also tend to believe that any Barnes X bullet, Winchester failsafe bullet, or other solid rifle bullet would go through a vest and I am extremely sure that a bullet designed to kill an elephant or rhino would go through a vest. Thing is, all of these bullets are for rifles and they are expensive, even if you reload. Sure, people can get handguns that shoot some of these rounds, but your average criminal isn't going to know what a TC Encore is, much less how to shoot them.

Let's keep in mind that Winchester black talons were outlawed because they were deemed cop killers. If my memory serves me correctly, they are almost the same bullet as the failsafe, just made for handguns.

It all comes down to what the average criminal is currently using as to what should be outlawed. If the average gang banger started using .50 BMG's, they should be outlawed. Now, lets all agree that the average criminal is not going to spend thousands of dollars on a gun.

[Andy L]

22lr will penetrate a vest. 357 mag wont. Go figger.

Bullet shape.

Andy

[fabsroman]

I wouldn't have thought that was true. Is it bullet shape or is it because the .22lr bullet is FMJ? For some reason, I just find it really hard to believe that a .22lr will penetrate a vest.

To make a long story longer, I bought a Hastings slug barrel for my BPS and in anticipation of receiving it, I bought some Remington copper solid sabots. Well, wouldn't you know it, the warning on the new barrel said not to use Remington copper solid sabots in the barrel. So, I gave them to my brother for him to use in home defense out of his Benelli SBE. He and I both have a friend that is a LEO and we were all over visiting my brother at his house one day. When this guy saw the copper solid sabot sitting on my brother's night table, he almost had a heart attack. I can understand why. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that round, vest or no vest.

[Andy L]

Fabs, they sure will. Dont believe its the jacket. Tis the shape.

andy