Help With Values

[Contenderizer]

I need help with values (for insurance purposes) on two military guns which were brought back to the states after WWII. I would include photos, but if you know anything about these weapons you should be able to give me at least ball park figures. Consider each to be in average condition; original, and I have fired both.

1) Dutch Service Carbine, M1895, (likely a New Model 4) 6.5x55R.
Designed by Mannlicher

2) Italian Mannlicher-Carcano Model 91 Calvalry Carbine, 6.5mm, with folding bayonet.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Adam Helmer]

Contenderizer,

The general rule is to use NRA grading adjectives for firearms such as EXCELLENT, Very Good, Good, Fair or Poor conditions. Each adjective relates to dings, blue wear, pitting, etc. Your "Average" conditions could be Very Good, Good or Poor.

If the guns are in serviceable condition with no missing parts, no broken parts and no pitting in the bores or chambers, I would give a ball park number of $100-$200 for the Dutch Carbine and $75.00-$125.00 for the Italian carbine.

Adam

[Contenderizer]

Adam, after posting I realized I didn't use the proper terminology. They are both in NRA Very Good condition. Thanks.

[Adam Helmer]

Contenderizer,

That is ok. The numbers are the same. If the guns have original slings, issue cleaning kits, etc., the prices may go up $25.00.

Adam

[Contenderizer]

Adam, I suspected they didn't have much value; and, no I don't have slings, etc.

Since you seem familiar with both, you may be aware that they both have a tendency to shoot very high at distances under 100 yards or so when using the existing iron sights. I read somewhere that it's just the nature of the beast and a common problem that some Dutch soldiers overcame by filing a front sight on their bayonet (that sight being higher than the one at the muzzle). Do you know if there is a replacement front sight currently available to overcome this matter?

The Dutch carbine has a bayonet mount. Do you know of a source for a bayonet?

[Gil Martin]

Many military rifles tend to shoot high at 100 yards because soldiers usually did not adjust sights in the heat of battle. Some military rifle are set to hit point of aim at 200 or 300 yards. The correction is to install a higher front sight to lower the point of impact. Then file the front sight down to get the desired point of impact.

Bayonets may or may not be available from places like Sarco, Inc. at wwwsarcoinc.com or Gun Parts Corporation at www.gunpartscorp.com. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

[Adam Helmer]

Contenderizer,

Yes, shooting high with military rifles is "the nature of the beast." The M1903 Springfield battle sight was zeroed to 440 yards; the P-17 is zeroed to 300 yards. Some Italian 6.5mm and 7.35mm rifles have a fixed rear sight zeroed to 300 yards.

As Gil said, soldiers did not often adjust their sights in the heat of battle. An old cliche with the M1903 was to "aim at the soldier's belt buckle" and then a hit was assured out to a quarter mile.

If you want to get a 100-yard point of aim/point of impact you will need to decide on what load you will standardize and then install a replacement (higher) front sight and file down as needed. Replacement front sight blades are available; measure your dovetail and check with Brownells.

Bayonets are occasionally available, but the prices are sky high, when you locate what you need. Hope this helps.

Adam