california ammo law

[DON WALKUP]

SB962 was approved by the assembly and now sits on the govs desk.

if he signs it into law, we here in california will be able to purchase only 50 rounds of handgun ammo per month.

many of us have lever action and carbines in handgun calibers; i have a 357/38 lever and a 9mm ruger semi-auto carbine.

EVERYONE out there needs to write, call, fax or email gov schwarzenegger and urge him to veto ab962.

if passed into law, this WILL have a profound affect on the nation and especially gun owners...i believe it will spark a new wave of anti-gun legislation by way of attacking ammo and it's use, ability to purchase, store and possess.

where the heller decision was a great victory for the ownership of firearms, the constitution DOES NOT protect ammo.

its very simple: state legislatures are starting to say "you may own a firearm, but you may NOT have, purchase or manufacture the ammo to shoot from it."

as a caveat: i wrote every member on the california state legislature safety committee in regards to this issue. i got back three emails marked "deleted without being opened". many of california's legislators are very openly contemptious when it comes to gun legislation they are trying to get passed, if you oppose them; kevin de leon, the author of AB962, is one of them.

we are reaching "critical mass" friends...better act while we still can.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Don, your reps are suppose to keep tabs on any contact made with those in their district..so I am told anyhow..I also think maybe someone at the desk that works for these people are doing the 'send back' and your rep don't even know you contact him/her...ah..maybe you should talk to them in person and ask if returning contact from you without even opening is his policy????...bet someone would get an butt whoopin...from what I remember, we had our IBC computers turned off at important times..'gun shows'..and lots of noise from lots of us found that in the office of Pa state police was an anti-gun/hunter..and used this job for their own interests...they no longer work there...interesting to know the answer to this on your end..

[8X56MS]

I understand Arnold signed the bill today.

It will go to court, and get tossed out. Frankly Don, its time for folks in California to just move.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Since ammo is an important part of a gun and a gun is not complete without it, I can't see how they can let you have only 'part' of your gun....guess be same as saying turn in the fire pin but you can keep the rest?????? Somehow we need to link the 2 as one unit...what scares me too is for some reason, Calif..sets the future for the rest of the nation...why is that? Pa will sure follow with the gov we have now......

[Dan Morris]

Ammo control is a subject that many of us have been called paranoid over. This kinda blows the delusion!!!
Dan

[gd357]

It's really unbelievable to see the kind of BS that goes on today. Got to wonder how much more of this crap will fly before the whole pot boils over. The Founding Fathers fought a revolution for less than this.

[Larryjk]

Don Walkup, The right to keeep and bear arms "shall not be infringed". I'd say not letting you have any ammo is infringing on that right. However, they are just saying you may not have very much ammo. You should be sure to buy at least 50 rounds each month, whether you need them or not. Time to be a faithful reloader.

[fabsroman]

FYI - the final bill did not contain the 50 round limit. What this bill did was require the retailers to take down the ID information of people buying handgun ammo. At the end of the day, it isn't that big of a deal to me. Here in Maryland I already have to provide ID to retailers when I buy powder for reloading. How hard will it be for retailers to take out a book, write down the ID number, name, address, etc. in it and what ammo the person bought. Ultimately, I guess it depends on how onerous the record keeping really is. If it requires the retailer to track lots, etc., then that could become a PITA.

At the end of the day, I have no idea how they think this law is going to deter crime. Like criminals cannot take a drive out of state, buy all the handgun ammo they want, and then come back into the state. Sheer stupidity and a waste of the legislature's and retailer's time if you ask me, but it doesn't spell doomsday for the handgun shooters in California.

Also, California does not set the precedent in laws for the nation. In fact, California is viewed as being out there when it comes to passing laws. California has had a pretty strict emission law in effect for quite some time and I don't see many, if any, states following its lead. California banned the Barrett .50 BMG and I don't see many states doing that either. California is definitely off the reservation.

[skeet]

Fabs I can't believe how far you will go. I don't think there is a law in Md requiring retailers to take your ID info to buy powder. The store may do it. If they did I would buy elsewhere. The police have been trying to make retailers take ID on ammo(in Md) but there is no law requiring it. The Federal law requiring handgun ammo record keeping was done away with many years ago. It was just too much paperwork. It was even in effect on 22 ammo. Now as to the state requiring an ID for ammo. You stated correctly that it is ridiculous and it is..absolutely. Nope it doesn't spell doomsday but it is surely heading there. Some day hopefully you will realize that you HAVE to draw a line in the sand and say NO MORE. We fought the strongest country in the world for our independance from such stupidity and over regulation in the late 1700's. Sorry to say it but it is surely coming to the same point in this country. We have hate crimes legislation and government run health care legislation in Congress. More control!! Our President clearly does not even like our country or it's former policies..or it's people for that matter. So he changes it with the use of things like the Czars..Which aren't even approved by law. More control!! Fabs..answer this..when IS enough..more than enough? What is to stop some government flunky from following up on an ammo sale and accusing someone, just on the basis of possession...of a certain crime. Trust the government. But I can't trust the government we have in place now. They are marxists..not socialists. Control is their mantra.. and every little law such as this one you were discussing...even though stupid and ridiculous gives those same governmental idiots just a little MORE control over Yours and my life. Just what we need. Remember that a government powerful enough to give you everything you want...is powerful enough to take everything you have!! Regulation is the death knell of freedom. Believe it. Even the little regulations that won't really bother you ...too much!

[shooterjon]

Well I must agree with SKEET- after living in California and being told 25 yrs ago that the anti guns would take our guns away 1 LAW AT A TIME-it sure seem to be coming true.California laws do make a difference around the country just look at the emission laws and the way the rest of the country will be forced into abiding with California emission standards,and it just starts there.
We currently have laws that fit the crimes,we don't need more laws to justify a situation IE driving while talking on the phone,ITS CALLED INATTENTIVE DRIVING.And the list goes on and on and on.
I am with the NRA on 99.9% of the legislation of GUN AND NO AMMO LAWS -- IT'S NOT NEEDED!
Stand up for your rights get in their face LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD--Vote only for those supporting gun rights -THATS MY WAY OF LIFE-A former Nazifornia resident.I have gone as far as not purchasing items from ANTI GUN companies,I will spend my money with pro gun company's.I got the list from the NRA web site last year and use it as mush as I can.
Just me beleven in me!

[huntingvet]

The worst part about this CA ammo law is it will restrict my ability on types of ammo. I understand that companies outside the state cannot ship ammo into CA for private purchases. So I will be limited to whatever the local stores have in stock. I won't be able to purchase unique ammo from Cabela's for example.

[skeet]

Originally Posted by huntingvet

The worst part about this CA ammo law is it will restrict my ability on types of ammo. I understand that companies outside the state cannot ship ammo into CA for private purchases. So I will be limited to whatever the local stores have in stock. I won't be able to purchase unique ammo from Cabela's for example.

You are corect. It restricts where and When you can buy. It won't stop you from driving out of state though..yet.

Fabs..don't belabor the point of regulation. I understand we have to have some regulation. I think the state should stay out of people's private lives and their guaranteed rights. As Isaid..Stupid laws are just that..Stupid. If the Peta people want to come out to my farm on the shore and harrass me while hunting..or any of the other places I happen to be able to hunt..they are welcome to come...but they will be dealt with at the scene. Not threatening just stating. I think that the state legislature mas passed some absolutely ridiculous laws and so do you. I think the legislature should stay OUT of the court room. Wht I have stated and will again is that I think the governments we have try to regulate too many things. You can't regulate every facet of people's lives. Don't go with the stupid seat belt laws..You say they are for safety..and that is just more liberal BS..like saying it's for the children. It ain't about SAFETY...It's about the MONEY. So if people choose not to wear their seatbelts in the Obama care future..they can just deny service to the dummies...wouldn't you say?? It's all about money power and control Fabs. You must get it I'd say. You aren't stupid. If you believe otherwise then you have surely been snowed. When they set up the seat belt laws in Md I happened to spend some time in Annapolis and with the then Speaker of the House. Behind closed doors it was about the control and the future money from tickets. Sure seat belts help to save some lives..but so do slower speed limits(to a larger degree than belts) and Helmets for MC riders are a joke for life saving at any speed. As I have said before..you are too young to remember driving Regulations as they were before criminalizing the driving laws. That was about control and money like many other laws we have on the book. Now as far a Luca..I might have to call Vinnie soon..just in case you might decide to run.. He might take that decision out of your hands. Heck you gotta ease up man..the way you are going you'll have a heart attack before 45. Fabs... a piece of advice..if you ever want a farm somewhere..don't wait more years..go someplace else NOW and buy a place..You can always practice law anywhere. Maybe not as much money in it as there...but money ain't everything. One day you'll realize that..I hope it ain't too late. Believe it or not that was one of the reasons I did not become an attorney. That is however another story for a time when we can sit down together and have a small snort aftr shooting another round or two of clays of some type. When I come back to Md again. You WILL take the time out of your busy schedule Vinny says so!!

BTW my personal physician is from North Carolina and he came here to be a doctor because he wanted a life other than work. He is a friend(unless he tells me stuff I don't wanna hear) and he said he makes about 2/3 of what he made back east.. But he works where he wants pretty much when he wants and he can just step outside and relax for a bit looking at the mountains without a bunch of people getting nasty and hounding him. He said it was the best decision he ever made. We shoot together every now and then. Only thing he misses...other than a clay bird or so... is the quail hunting he had back east. But I do try to make up for that with pheasant hunting on my place or some of the other farms I am able to hunt...just for asking BTW. Nope Fabs...although you won't believe it..money ain't everything.. Just $.02 from someone who considers you a friend

[dovehunter]

Originally Posted by fabsroman

...What this bill did was require the retailers to take down the ID information of people buying handgun ammo. At the end of the day, it isn't that big of a deal to me...

Ordinarily I'd agree with you. However of late, where gun and/or ammo control is concerned, I am beginning to think more and more about the wisdom behind the old saying "for want of a (horseshoe) nail the battle was lost". The liberals, gun-haters, and too-much-free-timers of this country have now gotten smart enough to know that they can only effectively chip away at our rights with little slivers instead of big chunks. After all the little slivers are put together at the end of the day, we find we have been screwed and didn't know it! I can see now why the NRA takes such a hard line and opposes any "anti" legislation of any kind. They too are well aware of the nail and battle axiom.

[fabsroman]

I'll reply to both you and Skeet in this one reply. Simply put, things aren't quite as simple as they were 100 years ago and they definitely aren't as simple as they were 233 years ago when this country was founded. There needs to be regulation and there needs to be more of it compared to what was in place in 1776. Back then, there weren't e-mail scams from Nigeria trying to scam Americans out of their life savings. Back then, there wasn't something called the atomic bomb. Back then, people didn't fly airplanes into skyscrapers and kill 4,000+ people. Back then, there weren't interestates. Simply, put, the government is controlling our lives every single day. The speed limit that is enforced against us when we drive is control, and so is that red light that you stop at. Laws against murder, rape, and other crimes are controlling us from our own free will. However, what we need is sensible legislation and not trash. What we are getting is trash. Sensible legislation would have prevented this huge economic downturn. Sensible legislation would possibly fix the health care issues we have right now. I just went through the birth of a child and what I think is Lyme disease, and between what we paid in health insurance premiums for my wife's employee share of her coverage and what we paid in co-pays and our deductible, we have spent $8,000 on health care. That hurts, but we make a good amount of money so it doesn't hurt as bad compared to a family of 4 with household income of $50,000, or even $80,000. Plain and simple, something needs to be done about health insurance. I met with a client on Tuesday that needs to become a partner of his wife's business because not a single insurance company will insure him if he starts his own business because of a pre-existing condition that he was born with. He is 45 years old and cannot get health insurance on his own. He has to be in a group plan where there are at least 2 or more people in the plan and then the insurer will not look at pre-existing conditions. Now, how stupid is that?

Onto guns. Yes, I do think we need to fight for ALMOST every little thing, but there definitely is some BS out there. Why is it that when people buy guns brand new from a dealer they have to go through a NICS check, but when it is an independent sale from person to person a NICS check is not required. How in the world is an independent person going to know if he/she is selling a gun to a felon. Are we as gun owners saying "Hey, felons cannot own new guns, but we don't really care if they buy them used". Is that our stance? Maryland at least requires sales of assault weapons and handguns between private individuals to be done through an FFL. Personally, I see no reason why ALL gun sales should not go through an FFL and ALL potential gun owners should go through a NICS check. Yeah, you guys are going to complain about the additional cost, which I think was $20 when I did it in April, but as far as I am concerned, the additional cost is worth the benefit to society. Kind of like the additional cost of having seat belts and airbags in vehicles. Do you guys have any idea how much that adds to the cost of those cars? Air bags can be quite expensive.

How far will I go? I'll go to the land of reason. The entire reason this country is in the crapper is because we have both political sides being hard heads about everything. Republicans want to deport every illegal alien, Democrats want to give every illegal alien the whole country. Me, I want to allow the good ones to stay and I want to deport the illegals. Maybe if we let the good ones stay, have them pay something in back taxes, and get them working on the books, then we might just make some additional tax revenue to help with this insane deficit that I, my kids, and my grandkids will be facing.

Me, I'm going to the party of common sense. I will not scream about "death panels" when a bill has end of life planning in it that is supposed to advise people about wills, advanced health care directives, and powers of attorney. I read that portion of the bill that Republicans were up in arms about saying that it was the equivalent of death panels, and that was complete BS. I'm completely in favor of end of life planning because way too many people do not do it and leave a mess behind in their passing or their incompetence (i.e., no longer able to make financial and health care decisions for themselves).

So, regarding this entire issue with the ammo in California, I will not be up in arms about it. Hopefully, they will figure out it is a waste of time and they will do away with it. I also will not oppose common sense legislation regarding guns.

Now Skeet, here is the law on the sale of explosives in Maryland:

Maryland Code Public Safety Section 11-112:

(a)(1) Each manufacturer and each dealer shall keep, for all explosives shipped, purchased, or sold, a record that includes:

(i) the name and address of each consignee, buyer, or seller of the explosives;

(ii) the date of each shipment, purchase, or sale; and

(iii) the amount and description of the explosives.

(2) Each record kept under this subsection shall at all times be open for inspection by agents of the licensing authority and by federal, State, and local law enforcement officers.

(3)(i) Subject to subparagraph (ii) of this paragraph, each manufacturer and each dealer shall provide a copy of each record kept under this subsection to the State Fire Marshal in the form that the State Fire Marshal requires.

(ii) A record kept under this subsection shall be provided on request, but need not be filed more than once in each calendar month.

So, if you have not been giving your ID to the people you buy powder from in Maryland, whoever is selling it to you must not meet the definition of a dealer or the person selling it to you is violating the law. Every time I have bought powder from PG Trap & Skeet, they take my driver's license and write down stuff in a book that they keep.

Did you also know that it is illegal in Maryland to have more than 5 pounds of powder in your possession without applying for a license from the State Fire Marshall. As part of that application, you have to include a set of fingerprints. Kind of makes it hard to reload unless you have that license or use up all the powder as soon as you get it.

By the way, I think that 5 pound limit is retarded. Sad thing is that I have read a case that involved it.

Did you also know that it is illegal to possess any powder in a multifamily dwelling like a townhouse or a condo. No reloading allowed in those dwellings. I can kind of understand that law since you never know if the idiot next to you is going to set the place on fire.

[skeet]

That is the explosives law in Md..better go check it out though. Add yes 5 lbs of smokeless powder and 5 lbs of black powder. Yep it certainly is retarded. I also know a fellow in Cambridge who was cited by the State fire marshals office for having more than 5 lbs of powder. Never got past the supervisor of the assistant fire marshal. He actually called the guy and apologized for his employee. The license has been in effect for more than 30 yrs. Do you have a license?? Being an officer of the court I assume you do. Did you have powder when you lived in the town home or wherever you lived. Can't remember whether you lived in one or not. I actually know at least 200 people who reload(in Md) and do NOT have that stupid license. Some actually happen to be police officers too.

Now as to the medical ins stuff and control. Do you think that having medical insurance is a right? Do you think you should pay for everyone else's insurance..even though they do not work. I know we as TAX PAYERS pay for the indigent and others..IS that right also? When does enough become too much?? Let's turn this around here.. If the people who choose not to work are able to vote and make us pay for them and their families..where will it stop? At some point we just have to stand back and say NO MORE...or you and the future taxpayers of this country will pay more and more of YOUR earnings to support those that refuse to be responsible for themselves. Probably at some point 100% of your income. It surely IS possible. Heck anyone would almost be a fool to continue to work.. So there will be less and less who choose not to work..meaning more taxes for you. We have to stop this somewhere. Now is the time. Illegals are just that..Why do we have to support them also. to the tune of more than 12 Million people. If they are here legally then they should be either paying for their insurance or Paying for their hospital bills. If they aren't..then refuse service...Oh No..someone may suffer..Medical treatment STILL isn't a right!! Neither political party out there are our friends. Especially the dem..er marxists.. Heck the Republicans are now socialists. Time for term limits..

As for the felons buying guns from individuals..Fabs..they are felons.. Why are they not in jail? Why are they NOT locked up when found in possession of a firearm.. And if you say well maybe they don't belong in jail..well they KNOW it is illegal for them to have a firearm in their possession much less buy one. You are willing and able to pay for your pleasures..like firearm ownership..many others aren't.. Sorry but it seems as though people in your position are ready and able to sell out the constitution to the ideals of regulation. Maybe we should have a fee to use the right of free speech also. We can surely show reasonable cause for that too.