question about powders

[happycowboy]

I am currently using IMR 3031 to load for my 45-70, and i'm having trouble getting it to meter correctly thru my powder measure. So, my question is, are there any ball or flake type powders that are suitable to use for the 45-70? I am using lyman's 330 gr. bullets. Any answers or advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks

[wrenchman]

yes blk powder lots of guys dont like the smoke.
I am not trying to be a smart butt i have not loaded for the 45-70 and it was the only thing i could think of.

[happycowboy]

It's my mistake. I should have specified smokeless powder. I thought of black powder, but i really didn't want to use it. I like the IMR 3031, and accuracy is great. I just can't get it to meter correctly in my powder measure. I talked to a guy at ALLIANT powder company today. He suggested reloader 7. He told me that it's virtually the same shape as 3031, but just a little smaller. So i might try that. I'm still open to any and all suggestions though. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Adam Helmer]

happycowboy,

Welcome to this Forum; I see this in only your 11th post. You are at the right site.

Ok, your powder measure does not like 3031. What for powder measure are you using to meter powder for your .45/70? Why NOT change powder measures and make your life a lot simpler?

My wife says I have too many .45/70 rifles of the M1873 and M1884 persuasion. I prefer smokeless powder and cast bullets. I use IMR 4198 in my .45/70s. I use an Ideal #55 powder measure and have NO problems.

Hope this helps.

Adam

[happycowboy]

Thank you for the welcome Adam. My powder measure is a LEE. Yes i know that alot of people don't like LEE products, but i have had good luck using it with other powders. I'm just having trouble with the IMR 3031. As far as changing powder measures, well thats not an option at this time. Hopefully when things pick up at work i will be able to upgrade. My 45-70 is the h&r buffalo classic with the 32 in. barrel and i absolutely love this rifle. I appreciate the advice. Thanks again

[PJgunner]

Probably the best way for you to go is drop a chargethat's a bit light and trickle the rest onto the scale. As an example, let's say your charge is 30.0 gr. of whatever powder you're using, in this case 3031. Set your measure to drop maybe 28.5 gr. and trickle the rest to bring the charge up to the specified level.
That's one way, but if money is no problem (yeah right. ) Get the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 or the somewhat less expensive Lyman version. Worth every penny, believe me. I quit using stick powder like 3031 and 4831 doing load work ups. With either the Lyman or RCBS tool, you calibrate it, punch in the load you want and the tool drops it into the pan, weights it and you're ready to drop the charge into the case. Put the pan back one the scale and it drops the next preset charge. While it's doing that, you sat the bullet on the freshly filled case. I like it so much that I even broke down and bought an 8 pound jug of H-4350 to play with.
The first way works but is very time consuming. I did the load work up for my ex-son-in-law for his new .300 WSM. He picked the brad, powder nd bullets. When I saw that can of IMR-4831 in his hot sweaty had, I knew I was in for some time consuming work. It took close to half a day getting those preliminary loads made up for testing. It only took him an hour and a hald for use to shoot them up. Well we needed more powder and as I also have to pick up some stuff for myself as well, I hit the Sportsman's Warehouse to pend my money. While I was there, they had the Chargemaster and I said to my wife, "One of these days I'm gonna get me one of those." She said, "Why not today?" I'm no dummy. I put it in the cart just as fast as I could before she changed her mind. I did the next load work up for his rifle with some new componenet in just under an hour. Like I said, "They're worth every penny."
I see you shoot the 330 gr. Lyman. Must be #458122 HP. Great bullet. I cast them and they shoot very well in my 1895 Marlin and Ruger #1S. I use 17.0 gr. of SR-4759 for about 1600, maybe 1700 FPS. I never got around to clocking them.
Paul B.

[happycowboy]

Hey PJgunner, i'm already weighing each charge by hand. Like you said, it is time consuming and that is what i'm trying to get away from. The chargemaster is not an option at this point and time, so i guess its back to the time comsumption part of reloading. I absolutely love the lyman 330 gr. hp bullet. I've been loading 43 gr. of IMR 3031 under that bullet and my rifle absolutely loves it. Very accurate in my rifle. Anyway i appreciate the advice. later folks

[PJgunner]

Originally Posted by happycowboy

Hey PJgunner, i'm already weighing each charge by hand. Like you said, it is time consuming and that is what i'm trying to get away from. The chargemaster is not an option at this point and time, so i guess its back to the time comsumption part of reloading. I absolutely love the lyman 330 gr. hp bullet. I've been loading 43 gr. of IMR 3031 under that bullet and my rifle absolutely loves it. Very accurate in my rifle. Anyway i appreciate the advice. later folks

Start saving your pennies. You'll be glad you did. FWIW, I loaded up 100rounds of .35 Whelen with RL-15 yesterday in just a few minutes over an hour. This morning I loaded 60 rounds of .257 Roberts with IMR-4350, another powder that just loved to hang up in my measure, but not the Chargemaster. Every charge weighed. RL-15 isn't so bad through the measure but I stick with the RCBS tool. FWIW, My ex-son-in-law took up reloading after I told now that I've done the dirty work, it's time you learned. I made him do the final product on my gear, first with the powder measure and having to weigh each charge and then using the Chargemaster. He went out and blew some buck getting all the stuff to load his ammo. he went with the Lyman model as it was, IIRC about $100 less. he says it's been trouble free so I guess that could be an option if money's tight.
The problem with 3031 is that long stick like shape of the powder. I'm wondering if one of the ball powders might be suitable for the 45-70? I looked in all my manuals and the only ball powder used was H-335 and the loads were for the very strong guns like the Ruger #1.
I don't know what Re-7 looks like. You might get away with one of the 4895's as they meter decently in my powder measures. I used a lot of 4895, either IMR or H in much of my cast bullet shooting in .308 and 30-06. It is a bit slower burning that 3031 though. Dunno for sure how well that one would work. Hope the powder change works out for you.
Paul B.

[Ol` Joe]

You might look at E-Terminator by Ramshot or Hodgdons H335. I`d call Ramshot and Hodgdon and talk to the techs there. They both offer ball powders where Alliant rifle powders are all extrudes yet as far as I know. They do have some changes coming.

[Jack]

IMR 3031 is a relatively long stick powder, like 4350 and 4831. Very useful powders, but also known for hanging up in powder measures. Throwing a charge deliberately light and then trickling in the last few grains is a slow process, but it does allow for accurate charge weights.
Reloder 7 is also a stick powder, but shorter sticks, and considerably easier to throw accurate charges from a measure.

[buckhunter]

I weigh each charge period. Variations of droped could cause problems. I ended up purchasing an electronic Lyman scale. Just hit the button and automatically weighs the charge. So far no problems. I use mostly IMR 4350 and its fine.

[happycowboy]

Well i would have to say that i don't have much choice but to weigh each charge for now. I'm almost done with my bottle of IMR 3031. I think that i will give reloader 7 a try. Maybe it will meter out better. If not then loading for my 45-70 will just have to be time consuming. I appreciate all the comments folks, and thank you for your time and advice.

[GoodOlBoy]

If you want very close to a original bp clowboy load but in smokeless take a looksee at IMR trailboss. You can load it by volume safely, and a 45-70 case 90% or so full with a 405 grain lead shotos around 1009 fps with a low spread and good accuracy.

Just a though since trailboss has become my favorite powder.

GoodOlBoy

[happycowboy]

Hey PJgunner, i talked to a guy at Alliant Powder Co. and he told me that reloader 7 is shaped exactly like 3031 except it is shorter. I have never used it so i can't say. Thanks for all the advice though. Hey GOB, i want to say thank you for the advice about TrailBoss powder. I went to the website and looked up loading data for it in the 45-70 and i think i will give it a try. I like how is bulks up. The loading data for the trailboss listed a 300gr. cast LFP at 14.0 gr. at 1199 fps. at 14,400 cup, and the max was 16.5 gr. at 1285 fps. at 20,900 cup. I do believe thats in the trapdoor range of pressure. I just hope that it will meter well in my LEE measure. Thanks again for the info on the TrailBoss. Happy Trails folks

[Ridge Runner]

ok, not sure what your pressure levels are, but in Hodgdon's #26 manual, listed under "FOR MODERN RIFLES DESIGNED FOR HIGH PRESSURE LOADSONLY" they have listed
for 300 and 350 gr bullets
H-322 an extreme hodgdon powder which is very small kernels
H-4198, not real sure about this one as far as metering
H-4227 a real fins powder should meter almost like water

step up to the 385-405 gr and they list BL-C(2) a ball powder that meters well
RR