455 Webley

[Andy L]

I brought the subject up of this old round a while back. My father in law has one and I found him some ammo. He brought it with him this weekend and it is in mint condition. He wanted to know what its worth. I didnt know what to do but start surfin. I found 1 that was like his, but it was chewed up bad compared to his. The owner had a bid of $695 and that had not met the reserve!!

Anyone got any idea what they are worth? I told him not to burn the barrell off it. Its in excellent condition. British side arm, lever to break it down with the half moon clips to hold the bullets. He was showing me on the net the difference in grips, it has the "officer" grips according to him, instead of the straighter grips. Nice piece. I should have taken a picture and posted it. I may have him take one and email it to me. He got it from a dead buddies wife, I think. Got nothing in it. Nice deal.

Anyhow, thought some of you guys may know what its approx worth.

Andy

[Rocky Raab]

I'm sure Mad Reloader knows more than I do on these guns, but your phrase "half-moon clips" raised my eyebrows.

Webleys did NOT use half-moon clips. Lots of guns were imported into the US after WWII, but the correct ammo was almost impossible to get. So owners had gunsmiths mill off a bit of the cylinder at the rear so that they could use 45 ACP ammo in clips (or 45 Auto Rim rounds).

So modified, they are worth only a fraction of their "as-issued" price. Good shooters, though.

Only an in-hand appraisal can give you the gun's true worth. And I'd get three appraisals to make sure one of 'em isn't undercutting you in an attempt to buy it for a song!

[Andy L]

Rocky,
Im pretty sure it hasnt been modified. It wont take 45ACP. Maybe I said it wrong, he was calling it half moon clips, but I have no idea what it was and Im not sure he did. I think its original. I dont know much about it though.

Andy

[Adam Helmer]

Andy L,

I got my first MkVI .455 Eley caliber Webley revolver in 1960 in lieu of a high school class ring and still have it. My mom paid $14.88 plus shipping for my MkVI that happily has New Zealand markings. It was modified, as Rocky said, to accept .45 ACP ammo in half-moon clips of 3-rounds each. I have never seen a MkVI Webley in the original .455 Eley caliber. Without seeing the piece, I would say it is in the $350-$500 range. That mope with a reserve higher than $695 will have a long wait. Why did you mention half-moon clips in your first post? An original .455 will take the rounds without any clips. Hope this helps.

Adam

[Mad Reloader]

Hi all.

Don't know HOW I missed this thread, well July was a real busy month at work and i had trouble just watching my own Moderating areas...

Exact value is really really going to depend on finish and bore condition, but a $600 + figure for an UNCUT cylinder sounds typical. Ground cylinder jobs are now in the mid $400's in AZ, and unground versions have been super scarce since the mid/late 1970's. I have seen exactly 3 at gun shows since....1979! (and the Mad One averages 4 gun shows/year minimum!)

(IME, I think 98%+ of them out there are ground to take the 1/2 moon or full moon clips. So the few uncut ones are commanding a premium price)

The one your relative currently owns--which is where the moon clips come in as a topic--may not be the more typical "Mark 6" but a "Mark 5" or earlier.

When that frame size Webley hinge-frame was introduced in 1882, they came with "birds-head" type grips. Wilkinson Sword company contracted for a batch with a more square grip frame (with wooden grip panels) around the Boer War or so, there was a 7 1/2" target model produced as well in that same epoch.

PLEASE check the markings to see exactly which "Mark" the revolver is. (Approximate) Dates of introduction are as follows with each model:
Mark 1: 1882. 4" bbl
Mark 2: (mid-late 1880s) 4" bbl
Mark 3: (early 1890's) 4" bbl
Mark 4: 1899. 4" bbl(referred to in some circles as the Boer War Model)
Mark 5: 1913 (produced for only about a year, scarcest of the group. 4" and 6" barrel versions)
Mark 6: 1915, square grip frame, usually with 6" bbl

Reason I mention this is that the first four marks were proofed for BLACK POWDER loadings only. 3's and 4's can handle lighter smokeless loads as the proof standard was raised in that epoch.

Stick to loads in the ground one appropos for .45 Auto Rim ONLY! AVOID GI BALL! NO PLUS P AMMO PERIOD!!! And if made prior to the mid-1890's, load with Triple Seven or use Cowboy Action Shooting standards for pressures. PLEASE!

Check bore diameter as well. Should come out in the 0.455-0.458" range. You'll need to use lead bullets if so. If the bore is tight (0.454" down to 0.451") jacketeds for use in .45 ACP and .45 Colt are available, but load with caution. You'll need enough "oomph" to get a jacketed down the bore, but not so much as to spring the frame. (Too much of a headache for me, I just use leads)

FWIW, I own 2. A Mark 6, 1917 date, ground cylinder, Mark 4 with frame date of December 1900, cylinder ground but extractor only countersunk to accept .45 Auto Rim (George Nonte style. His suggestion, entirely too late for most all collectors, was NOT to grind down the cylinders, but countersink the chambers so that they can accept both .45 Auto Rim AND .455) Since the numbers match on cylinder, bbl and frame, looks like prior owner began to restore it, but did not finish. Considering Mark 4 proofing, keeping .45 ACP away from it is a good thing

Parts are only available for the Mark 5/Mark 6. And precious few at that, lately (Well, they stopped manufacture in 1932!) Some parts can be fitted to the Mark 4, fewer still to earlier marks. The one think you CAN get without months-to-years of searching is grip panels (less escutcheon) for all Marks. This tends to be the only thing that goes south besides the hinge spring (gunsmiths can make these, possibly DGW may have something that can be fitted) or the occasional lost screw (can be found in certain gunsmith screw assortments). DO NOT LOSE THE EXTRACTOR LEVER PIECE! They will slide out of the frame hinge if you remove the barrel pin, and best wishes on finding a replacement quick!

Gave you a LOT of data here, but stuff you and the relative NEED TO know.

(Don't chop or burn or grind ANYTHING on it!) Please!

[Barrel]

hi you can use 45 long colt brass to reload for .455 but it must be cut down you can also buy bullet moulds for .455 webley good luck

[Mad Reloader]

Check your headspace on that with ONE to 6 cutdown .45 Colt casings before proceeding on that...

(the .455 rim is a little thinner than the .45 Colt)

Also ejection--the .45 Colt rim isn't as wide, either. Possibly not enough to make a difference on your particular piece, but then again...

(If your Webley works out on both counts, that trick could save you some $$$ on buying brass. IF NOT--and you already ran them thru the trimmer: You just got a whole passel of brass that's of no use to anyone but maybe some of the .45 Colt derringer crowd wanting to roll off gallery loads)


I speak from experience on BOTH counts...