Your not gonna like this:

Valigator · #1 08-22-2008, 08:26 AM

I ran across this, this am...needless to say I responded with a blistering comment, "they havent printed it" and doubt they will...Its amazing we have these freaks in our mist.....

http://socialistworker.org/2008/08/1...y-under-attack

rattus58 · #2 08-22-2008, 12:39 PM

Immigrant issues? Don't look for Obama for help. I'm not sure you can count on McCain on this either.

Barak Obama is anti american. I don't give whit for his populist rhetoric, his messiahonic projections from Palosi and the Democrats, I prefer to just look at his actions. I also don't like people speaking "down" to me, and I don't like people who LIE. And LIE he does, the latest was his vote against medical attention for a live baby delivered after an abortion. When I heard the tape from Obama's speech against medical help for the baby, it made me physically sick to my stomach...

Essentially, that rectal orifice, said that to get care for the baby would require getting another doctor to take care of it and that would be a burden on the hospital and doctors, well how about that live child?? He went on to say that saving the baby, giving it medical care, or basically attempting to give it life would be against the wishes of the mother of the baby.

Who ARE these people? He is about as close to an anti-christ as I've seen recently. He has said, and I'm sure you've all seen it yourself by now, the tape of him saying that if his daughters made a mistake in judgement, he didn't want them burdened with a baby.

This guy is way beyond being pro-choice, he's for infanticide as well.

His stands against free trade, his stand against the columbia treaty to allow OUR MANUFACTURERS to be able to sell without tarriff (and let me tell you, it isn't only unions workers he has to represent) because unions in their (not all) idiotic protectionist rhetoric are for a zero sum life for americans. Well no thanks.

My vote is AGAINST THIS YOYO.... even though I don't think McCain is much better, he is at least prolife (mee too..) but that is not my issue, taxes is my issue, gun ownership is my issue, and the right to fill my car with gasoline, since I'm not wanting to trade in two new cars for electricity right now... besides I love spooling my turbo....

Valigator · #3 08-22-2008, 01:14 PM

Get em...rattus58

BILLY D. · #4 08-22-2008, 11:15 PM

+2 for rattus.

Best wishes, Bill

fabsroman · #5 08-22-2008, 11:51 PM

So far, of all the political ads I have seen run during the Olympics, the one I like the best is the one by McCain stating that this nation has had a rough 4 years. At least he understands that. Sad thing is that I don't think it is going to get any better.

The issue with taxes isn't an easy one. Honestly, if I were elected as President, I would cut off some of the benefits to the poor and tax everybody else some more. Not only do we need to cut spending, but we need to generate more money through taxes. How else are we ever going to balance the budget and at least partially reduce the national debt of $9,000,000,000.00? That my friends is a rather large number. What my generation, the older generation, and younger generation has done is take from every generation. We have taken from the prior generations and the generations to come, and we want more. We want our turbos to spool away, we want our vacation homes, we want a rifle in every caliber and a shotgun in every gauge, and we want a farm to hunt on too.

The next thing I would address is social security and medicare, and create a further sliding scale to do away with it gradually. Those under 18 will be responsible for their own retirement. That way, people will not feel a false sense of security that the government is going to take care of them after they retire. There are plenty of people out there that didn't save for retirement, thought they could live off social security, and then were horribly shocked after they retired. Same goes for medicare. The younger generation would also experience a decreasing social security and medicare tax as they got older.

Immigration would be another issue.

Health care, while being an issue, I have no idea how to address it other than to tell Americans to buy a catastrophic insurance plan that covers incidents above $10,000. Most people can afford minor hospital bills, but it is the unexpected large bill that kills people. I have one client that pays over $800 a month for health insurance. That is $9,600 a year for her and her 3 daughters. I'm sure she could pay most of her medical bills for the year with that $9,600. When people have great, or free insurance, they tend to go to the doctor for every single cough and sneeze, which drives up the cost of insurance.

rattus58 · #6 08-23-2008, 04:34 AM

Hi Fabrosman....

I agree with all you say except the raising taxes. Increased expense reduces consumption and that is what taxes does. Create an environment where people spend money. Giving the Government too much money gives them too many ways to waste it.

Otherwise you is right on ...

Aloha...

L. Cooper · #7 08-23-2008, 12:48 PM

Fabs, you need three more zeros in that National Debt total.

For perspective, if you had a million dollars ($1,000,000) and you spend it at $1000 a day, it will last 1000 days or about 3.5 years.

If you have a billion dollars ($1,000,000,000) and spend it at $1000 a day it will las about 3500 years.

The American National Debt is going up at a rate of over One Billion dollars a day

There is a disaster on its way.

rattus58 · #8 08-23-2008, 02:38 PM

Coop...

Though I share your concerns of the debt, aren't you sorta assuming course that there is no other income coming in, no growth, so to speak? The ratio of national debt to Gross National Product is high right now because of the war. If we can get out of Iraq, not go through another 9/11, and quit spending money on roads to nowhere. But on that note, its not as high as its ever been by some 30 points.

What we HAVE to get a handle on, are all the "unfunded" debt we have such as social security and medicaid/medicare, which the way they have it now by paying a flat amount per month to insurance companies to handle medicare is a better way to do it, but now they want to cut payments to insurance companies. You cannot trust this government (Democrats).

Republicans have got to start attacking Democrats on facts. Republicans have got to start making heroes out of those who support their families, take responsibility for their actions, and who stand up for the rights of kids to have a true education through real choice and not rhetoric.

We have the highest debt that we've had is true, but our economy is also the highest its ever been and with George Bush, its grown an AVERAGE of 4.5% a year outside of 9/11. This is better than clinton, who they all like to say had the greatest economy on earth... he had a true republican house and senate who made it what it was, but he raised taxes and that hurt, Bush had a wildly spending bunch of repuplecrats and still outgrew Clinton and probably Reagan.

We only have to reign in spending. Obama will expand spending at a rate that will make Bush seem like a Quaker.

Aloha....

fabsroman · #9 08-24-2008, 12:18 AM

Coop,

You are right. That was only 9 billion that I posted and not 9 trillion. 9 trillion dollars looks like this:

$9,000,000,000,000.00

Rattus,

Yes, you can argue that if the government didn't tax people as much, they would have more discretionary income for spending. That is a theory. However, they don't always spend every single dollar of that extra income. Sometimes, they save it instead of spending it, which probably wouldn't be a bad thing with this generation.

Does anybody know what a single year's budget for the US government looks like? Is it more than $9 trillion, or is it less. I actually have no idea what the number is, and it would probably help me put my head around the national debt number. For instance, if somebody owes $9 in debt, but makes $100,000 a year, it is pretty easy to reign in spending to pay off that $9 debt. Now, if somebody owes $100,000 and makes $9 a year, that is a whole different ball game.

rattus58 · #10 08-24-2008, 05:31 AM

I'm not an accountant nor a cpa, but I understand finance some in my business as a financial planner. Tax revenues go up when taxes are low. This has happened always. It is true that you cannot tax your way out of debt nor to prosperity.

Spending is the root of all debt, period. Just remember that the war is sucking up billions, creating this debt. Obama wants to trade the military debt for local spending, so don't expect the Democrats to do anything but continue the debt, reduce your freedoms, and they WILL take your guns away.

Aloha...

fabsroman · #11 08-25-2008, 01:07 AM

"Spending is the root of all debt, period. Just remember that the war is sucking up billions, creating this debt. Obama wants to trade the military debt for local spending, so don't expect the Democrats to do anything but continue the debt, reduce your freedoms, and they WILL take your guns away."

Trust me, you won't find me voting for Obama even if he was the only candidate running.

To a point I think you are right about the reduction of the tax rate causing a greater return in total for the government, but it only works to an extent. As a hypothetical, suppose the US lowered the tax rate to 1%, do you really think the total amount collected would be more or less than at the current rates? By the way, this is the lawyer side in me. LOL There is always a gray area somewhere.

rattus58 · #12 08-25-2008, 04:42 AM

Hi Fabsroman...

If our economy was really burning up and Everyone paid that 1% tax, maybe. If everyone paid a flat tax of some amount, that would take care of it too... no loopholes to hide in... but then you have the social engineers saying that whoa... wait a minute... that works against the poor and is regressive... so we carve out the poor somehow... maybe make food, drugs, and the first home tax free... and then in twenty years we'll be right back to volumes thick tax code again....

Aloha.... That is the cynic in ME....

Aloha again...

fabsroman · #13 08-26-2008, 12:20 AM

The whole flat tax thing will never work
just because it would be hard on the poor, along with a million other issues. Currently, I think a married couple with 2 kids can make $40,000 without paying a dollar in tax. The tax code will never be simple again, which is nuts in itself.

By the way, a flat tax on income wouldn't be regressive. However, a sales tax is regressive because the poor usually have to spend all their money to survive, whereas the rick do not. The current estate and gift tax we have is a progressive tax because it only taxes the rich. Personally, I'm all for a flat tax. Everybody pays their share, period. No ifs ands or buts, regardless of whether you are rich or poor.

The reason I came back to this thread is because of this article:

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retir...nt-preparation

It seems as though social security will be in the hole by $7 trillion by 2017 and medicare will also be in the hole by $34 trillion. That is utterly nuts.

rattus58 · #14 08-26-2008, 11:57 AM

Actually you're right, I got the tax proposals mixed up there, the universal sales tax and the income flat tax, and you're right again, they'd never work though I am a strong proponet personally for an income flat tax, as unpopular as that is.

I've always wondered how long people will take to realize that the Democrats who started Social Security, never expected to pay out from it since life expectance back then didn't reach the age of social security. By the 40's there were some reaching social security age, and by 1958, we realized that oh oh...

By the 80's Social Security was in the tank and it was empty. Bush tried to address it, the Democrates Demogogue it and nothing gets done. This is where Republicans really tick me off. If you stand for something, stand up for it. I like a flat tax, I get criticized for it all the time, even from, it seems, mostly republicans... I don't think Democrats understand the concept... I mean that sincerely. I'm gonna be working till I die... I've resigned myself to that... :grin: My kids can't bail me out.

Interesting article and I believe it, have believed it, and have preached just that too

Aloha...

Classicvette63 · #15 08-26-2008, 12:42 PM

What's wrong with a tiered flat tax? If you make 0-xx,xxx, you pay X%, if you get into the next tier, you pay a higher percent. No deductions, loopholes etc. Do away with all other taxes to keep things simple.

Why is it that if Fabs and I make the same amount of money per year, but his tax guy is better than the tax guy I hired, he gets to pay less in taxes? That's messed up.

I agree that we shouldn't raise taxes. The more money you give them, the more they will spend. Ain't any of you guys been married?